Team shape, tactics and personnel

[VillaChris]

Formation worked a dream today.

Of course Burnley are rare beast in playing an up and down 4-4-2 but we swarmed all over them from start to finish.

Begs the question why we didn't play Chambers as a DM weeks ago as balance of midfield was so much better today and allowed McGinn and Luiz licence to impact on game in final third.

[Rightdm00]

2 minutes ago, VillaChris said:

Formation worked a dream today.

Of course Burnley are rare beast in playing an up and down 4-4-2 but we swarmed all over them from start to finish.

Begs the question why we didn't play Chambers as a DM weeks ago as balance of midfield was so much better today and allowed McGinn and Luiz licence to impact on game in final third.

Worked because it was Burnley. Quicker, more aggressive midfields would have run circles around Chambers. 

[VillaChris]

2 minutes ago, Rightdm00 said:

Worked because it was Burnley. Quicker, more aggressive midfields would have run circles around Chambers. 

Perhaps. Didn't he get POTS at Fulham a few seasons back playing largely at DM so for some games he can do a job there.

Burnley are limited but a few have struggled v their style in recent times.

[Zatman]

9 hours ago, VillaChris said:

Formation worked a dream today.

Of course Burnley are rare beast in playing an up and down 4-4-2 but we swarmed all over them from start to finish.

Begs the question why we didn't play Chambers as a DM weeks ago as balance of midfield was so much better today and allowed McGinn and Luiz licence to impact on game in final third.

I dont think Chambers in midfield made us that much better. If anything him not playing centre back exposed us a bit

[CVByrne]

How do people think Luiz or JJ would work as one of the two 10s? I'm torn on JJ as his ability to carry the ball forward is a big asset from the 8 position. His finishing however is superb so having him as one of the two 10s behind Watkins would work too. Luiz I think will excel once he has that defensive midfielder beside him. In a 6 in a double pivot or as an 8 in a 3. I hope we can get a decent price for him

[VillaParkAvenue]

35 minutes ago, CVByrne said:

How do people think Luiz or JJ would work as one of the two 10s? I'm torn on JJ as his ability to carry the ball forward is a big asset from the 8 position. His finishing however is superb so having him as one of the two 10s behind Watkins would work too. Luiz I think will excel once he has that defensive midfielder beside him. In a 6 in a double pivot or as an 8 in a 3. I hope we can get a decent price for him

I’m not convinced either of them would be a great 10 tbh. I’m also not convinced we should return to two number 10s, at least not unless the role is redefined. Having two relatively static players playing centrally hasn’t worked and I doubt it will.

I also hope we get a good price for Luiz, but his value is likely a bit lower already as he enters his final 12 months.

Edited May 8, 2022 by VillaParkAvenue

[Tayls]

Chambers probably needs to start at CB for a bit to allow Konsa to sort out his mindset. From the seems of things, he has completely lost all focus. 

[CVByrne]

What I like is that we are seeing exactly what he wants from his full backs and 8s. I think he's very happy with Digne, Cash, JJ & McGinn going into summer. Mings has been very good especially as he's taken on captaincy and learning to play out from the back. Plus lack of cover from a CDM to contend with as the fullbacks are ultra attacking its a huge pressure on CBs. Konsa has faltered, Mings hasn't. 

Then seeing the Watkins / Ings partnership flourish. In their last 10 games between them we've seen 8 goals and 4 assists from them, that's very good output. Buendia's stats for assists, xA and progressive passes per 90 is among the best in the top 5 leagues. He'll only get better. Coutinho is fantastic too he just needs to find some consistency of performance. 

Right now, all of those are big positives Gerrard can take into summer. 

What to do with Bailey is a big question. I assume he has to be kept and see how it goes if he gets a clear run and fitness in pre season. At worst we can loan him out in Jan if it's not working out for him. Konsa too, what do we do?

[VillaParkAvenue]

2 minutes ago, CVByrne said:

What to do with Bailey is a big question. I assume he has to be kept and see how it goes if he gets a clear run and fitness in pre season. At worst we can loan him out in Jan if it's not working out for him. Konsa too, what do we do?

It should be easier to sell Konsa, at least he’s been playing regularly and is by now a somewhat established Prem CB (a year or just 6 months ago he was also seen as a top talent by many).

Bailey could be harder to sell as he hasn’t been playing much, so it’s either keep trying or send on loan. One problem at Villa is that he isn’t a natural fit for the 10 role in Gerrard’s system (and certainly not if we’re playing a single 10).

[CVByrne]

Just now, VillaParkAvenue said:

It should be easier to sell Konsa, at least he’s been playing regularly and is by now a somewhat established Prem CB (a year or just 6 months ago he was also seen as a top talent by many).

Bailey could be harder to sell as he hasn’t been playing much, so it’s either keep trying or send on loan. One problem at Villa is that he isn’t a natural fit for the 10 role in Gerrard’s system (and certainly not if we’re playing a single 10).

Agreed, Konsa would be perfect in a 4 2 3 1 system or in any team with a CDM and flat back 4 with the full backs not being so ultra attacking. Plus he's only 24 so has that big potential to improve in next 2 or 3 years and be sold at profit. 

[paul514]

Yesterday's goals were the first time in a very long time we played something like we should, creating predictable, high quality chances through play rather than luck/hit and hope.

It is definitely not my choice of formation for our squad but I think we saw the formation that we will play next season yesterday.

[DCJonah]

Could a 4-2-2-2 work for us?

2 centre mids, with coutinho and Buendia infront and an attacking partnership of Watkins and ings. 

Would we lose much by not having that 3rd midfield player with how much Buendia presses and how hard he works? 

[TRO]

On 06/05/2022 at 17:52, Delphinho123 said:

The imbalance was created in the Summer after a poor transfer window. 

Our squad has a fair bit of talent in it but everyone either wants to play as an 8 or a 10 and we have two strikers who would start at most Prem clubs. We don’t have enough space to fit them all in. 

The imbalance has been there ,for some time.......it has just taken too long to be recognized.

[sparrow1988]

11 minutes ago, DCJonah said:

Could a 4-2-2-2 work for us?

2 centre mids, with coutinho and Buendia infront and an attacking partnership of Watkins and ings. 

Would we lose much by not having that 3rd midfield player with how much Buendia presses and how hard he works? 

I think for that to work, you would need two Buendia types as your 10's/wide forwards. I think Coutinho couldn't sustain the work rate required. Also your middle 2 need to be very very good. I think we're a long way from being able to play that system.

Edited May 9, 2022 by sparrow1988

[TRO]

4 minutes ago, DCJonah said:

Could a 4-2-2-2 work for us?

2 centre mids, with coutinho and Buendia infront and an attacking partnership of Watkins and ings. 

Would we lose much by not having that 3rd midfield player with how much Buendia presses and how hard he works? 

I think when the balance of the squad is addressed and I am gaining more confidence it will be.

I think we will see far more tactical manoueverablity, in the team......and a horses for courses approach to every game, will be adopted.

He has been hamstrung by the similarity of the playing staff, and diversity, will give him the flexibility he has needed to balance the team.

For some time now, we have been a collection of decent players, with some being too samey.......but we need a team, with supporting attributes to complement each other, not to emulate each other.

I believe, that is the next objective.

[VillaParkAvenue]

38 minutes ago, DCJonah said:

Could a 4-2-2-2 work for us?

2 centre mids, with coutinho and Buendia infront and an attacking partnership of Watkins and ings. 

Would we lose much by not having that 3rd midfield player with how much Buendia presses and how hard he works? 

That’s Rangnick’s favourite formation, often used by counterpressing teams like Leipzig and Salzburg. I guess the shape is supposed to give more vertical layers which would suit that way of playing.

Ralf tried it at Man United for a while but wasn’t a success there (perhaps predictable).

[AshVilla]

9 minutes ago, VillaParkAvenue said:

That’s Rangnick’s favourite formation, often used by counterpressing teams like Leipzig and Salzburg. I guess the shape is supposed to give more vertical layers which would suit that way of playing.

Ralf tried it at Man United for a while but wasn’t a success there (perhaps predictable).

It's also Sarri's favourite.

You need two strong mids of a Jorginho/Kante type something we completely lack.

 

[CVByrne]

4 2 2 2 means big change from the full backs and requires two holding Midfielder. I can't see us trying that at all. 

I think 4 3 3, 4 3 2 1 and 4 3 1 2 are the only possible formations for next season. Gerrard wants the front 3 to be adept at positional rotation so fluid in how we are with the ball.

[Reivax_Villa]

I said a few months ago, we need a new CB partnership. Keep the two but create high level competition 

Mings gets drawn out wide to much leaving space in the middle and has lapses of concentration.

Konsa has no real competition and we need someone better.. It is that simple. He can still improve and be a quality CB but he is very comfortable.

1.) Let Hause go to Brighton or Brentford or wherever

2.)  Buy two CBs

Edited May 11, 2022 by Reivax_Villa

[duke313]

11 minutes ago, Reivax_Villa said:

I said a few months ago, we need a new CB partnership

Mings gets drawn out wide to much leaving space in the middle and has lapses of concentration.

Konsa has no real competition and we need someone better.. It is that simple. He can still improve and be a quality CB but he is very comfortable.

1.) Let Hause go to Brighton or Brentford or wherever

2.)  Buy two CBs

Not been as solid this season, but we had one of the best defenses in the league last season, you don't just turn bad overnight.  I think if we had another good CB and a good DM we would be more solid at the back.  I'd keep Mings, left footed CBs are hard to come by.