duke313 Posted May 17, 2022 Share Posted May 17, 2022 21 minutes ago, Bazmonkey said: the problem with our midfield is not the player...it maybe. The main issue is numbers...and thats 3. Only two teams play three in midfield and are successful and thats City and Liverpool We have no width because we have no one to get out there....when we do we have no one in the middle for cover. Need 5 in the middle...if that dont work..then you change the personal. Ive been saying it for years three for leaves us open...and narrow.....i would love to be a winger against us.....at times I could take a seat the nearest player is that far away. As someone said....yes we can play some nice tiki taka...because those three are often close too each other, the moment the game expands thats where we struggle...how many times does the ball get out wide...a player is isolated and surrounded....why....the midfield have too much ground to make up. Luiz sits in front of the back four...so now you have two doing all the work getting out wide and trying to attack....its a number thing...get more bods in the middle and go from there. That would mean completely changing the system, which so far Gerrard has shown he is not prepared to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CVByrne Posted May 17, 2022 Share Posted May 17, 2022 Gerrard has the way he wants to play and we just need to sign players for the system. Two key piece missing are the ball playing CB and the all rounder CDM who can pass and defend, who has a physical presence. With those two in we can build from the back which is key for us and also we will concede less goals in transition. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted May 17, 2022 Share Posted May 17, 2022 15 minutes ago, CVByrne said: Gerrard has the way he wants to play and we just need to sign players for the system. Two key piece missing are the ball playing CB and the all rounder CDM who can pass and defend, who has a physical presence. With those two in we can build from the back which is key for us and also we will concede less goals in transition. If we buy these players and still are shit then Gerrard will be gone but we will need to bring in a manager who plays a similar system as we wont have any wide players As great as Conte is its his huge weakness as a manager that when he leaves you have to replace him with a 3 at the back manager or the club struggles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicken Field Posted May 17, 2022 Share Posted May 17, 2022 1 hour ago, Bazmonkey said: the problem with our midfield is not the player...it maybe. The main issue is numbers...and thats 3. Only two teams play three in midfield and are successful and thats City and Liverpool Depends on what you define as success, relative to squad or just in general? as City and Liverpool are two of the most succesful teams in the world at the moment. Leicester have had great success under Rodgers and have always played with a three, Brentford are overachieving and playing with a three, Newcastle have mostly been playing with a three since Howe joined. Real madrid play with a midfield 3 (or 4 even). It's also worth keeping in mind that it is so incredible irrelevant if the starting lineup is called a 433 or a 4231 on livescore or BBC, it's all about personal (I'd be surprised if the manager even says to the players that they are playing a 433 or a 4231, no one plays that rigid a formation and most formations are interchangeable and most clubs have 3 central midfielders). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rustibrooks Posted May 17, 2022 Share Posted May 17, 2022 Do we convert JPB into a number 10 and develop him into one? Or keep him as a winger that can be used in different games that require more width? This is assuming he is going to be around the first team Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted May 17, 2022 Share Posted May 17, 2022 Just now, Rustibrooks said: Do we convert JPB into a number 10 and develop him into one? Or keep him as a winger that can be used in different games that require more width? This is assuming he is going to be around the first team Sadly I can see him being sacrificed as we dont play with much width Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mazrim Posted May 17, 2022 Share Posted May 17, 2022 2 hours ago, Zatman said: Sadly I can see him being sacrificed as we dont play with much width He can play more central and drift wide. No problem at all. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted May 17, 2022 Share Posted May 17, 2022 2 minutes ago, Mazrim said: He can play more central and drift wide. No problem at all. Thats good, I have only ever seen him play wide so was worried Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomaszk Posted May 17, 2022 Share Posted May 17, 2022 2 minutes ago, OLDVILLAIN said: There are too many players being pigeon holed into positions that are not natural for them and i for one cannot see why the coaching staff cant see this. They've failed to see this narrow formation won't work in the PL. They've failed to see how much better we are with Buendia on the pitch. They've failed to see McGinn's underperformance hampering us. We shouldn't be gambling this summer. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AshVilla Posted May 17, 2022 Share Posted May 17, 2022 (edited) 4-2-3-1 is way forward in the summer imo. Get the defensive double pivot with a couple of new DM's with Coutinho behind the striker, Buendia and Bailey in the wide area's and Watkins up top. Gerrard needs to ditch the xmas tree/diamond formation asap. Edited May 17, 2022 by AshVilla 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vive_La_Villa Posted May 17, 2022 Share Posted May 17, 2022 10 minutes ago, Tomaszk said: Which is my fear. And back to square one we go. With the addition of Coutinho who would want to leave. There's more evidence to say this will go wrong than evidence suggesting Gerrard will succeed and flourish at Villa. I disagree. I’ve seen us play well in plenty of games. I think it’s player consistency that is impacting us rather than formation or systems. I guess we’ll see in due course. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomaszk Posted May 17, 2022 Share Posted May 17, 2022 8 minutes ago, Vive_La_Villa said: I disagree. I’ve seen us play well in plenty of games. I think it’s player consistency that is impacting us rather than formation or systems. I guess we’ll see in due course. Hopefully it clicks! If he would experiment with a 3421 or 3412 like Chelsea, Spurs, Brighton, Brentford and Wolves and Leicester regularly do, I'd be more optimistic of it working long-term. There's sound theory to keeping the middle of the pitch strong, but having zero width when you're building play is so difficult to achieve. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vive_La_Villa Posted May 17, 2022 Share Posted May 17, 2022 5 minutes ago, Tomaszk said: Hopefully it clicks! If he would experiment with a 3421 or 3412 like Chelsea, Spurs, Brighton, Brentford and Wolves and Leicester regularly do, I'd be more optimistic of it working long-term. There's sound theory to keeping the middle of the pitch strong, but having zero width when you're building play is so difficult to achieve. Unless you’re Liverpool. You have to have a very high calibre of players to play the way he wants. Maybe eventually he will accept he probably won’t get that at Villa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomC Posted May 17, 2022 Share Posted May 17, 2022 6 hours ago, Bazmonkey said: Only two teams play three in midfield and are successful and thats City and Liverpool Do City really play with only 3 in midfield? You could argue that they don't play with forwards...4-6-0... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted May 17, 2022 Share Posted May 17, 2022 5 hours ago, OLDVILLAIN said: Thats what im scared of. The club is going to spend a fortune for players that might fit into gerrards playing style. The problem as i see it is that the system been played does not suit the league and is way too narrow. There are too many players being pigeon holed into positions that are not natural for them and i for one cannot see why the coaching staff cant see this. Like i said last summer window..we need to get the recruitment right..it didnt exactly go to plan last time. I don't think in terms of results there is much difference between Deans System and Gerrards......despite set up differences. I can only think the reason for this is......in terms of players, its still Deans team. I feel our full backs are required to bomb on like Liverpools pair, but right now they can't, because the midfield is not balanced right to compensate......that I am hoping gets fixed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomaszk Posted May 18, 2022 Share Posted May 18, 2022 19 hours ago, Tomaszk said: Hopefully it clicks! If he would experiment with a 3421 or 3412 like Chelsea, Spurs, Brighton, Brentford and Wolves and Leicester regularly do, I'd be more optimistic of it working long-term. There's sound theory to keeping the middle of the pitch strong, but having zero width when you're building play is so difficult to achieve. You can add in Forest and Huddersfield, one of which we'll probably play away first game next season, who play it all the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duke313 Posted May 18, 2022 Share Posted May 18, 2022 20 hours ago, Tomaszk said: Hopefully it clicks! If he would experiment with a 3421 or 3412 like Chelsea, Spurs, Brighton, Brentford and Wolves and Leicester regularly do, I'd be more optimistic of it working long-term. There's sound theory to keeping the middle of the pitch strong, but having zero width when you're building play is so difficult to achieve. The 3421 and 3412 are not that far removed from our 4321 and 4312. All you need to do is drop the DM into the back 3 and push the full-backs up a bit. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomaszk Posted May 18, 2022 Share Posted May 18, 2022 3 minutes ago, duke313 said: The 3421 and 3412 are not that far removed from our 4321 and 4312. All you need to do is drop the DM into the back 3 and push the full-backs up a bit. IMO the midfield shape ends up totally different with a back 3. I'm not even saying it would definitely improve us! I'd just like to see something different tried as we keep delivering flat performances any time Buendia isn't on the pitch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CVByrne Posted May 18, 2022 Share Posted May 18, 2022 I can't see why we would play 3 at the back, our defensive record is very good under Gerrard. We're 7th best and we'd be better if we had a quality CDM there to stop the numerous goals we concede in transition. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrBlack Posted May 18, 2022 Share Posted May 18, 2022 (edited) 12 minutes ago, CVByrne said: I can't see why we would play 3 at the back, our defensive record is very good under Gerrard. We're 7th best and we'd be better if we had a quality CDM there to stop the numerous goals we concede in transition. As stated above, the shift isn't that great. You are effectively just asking your CDM to stay at the back, instead of venturing forward on occasion when we havent got the ball.... but even a centre back will do that occasionally. When the 6 is Nakamba, he sits much deeper than Luiz, so is even closer to a 3 at the back. I agree, we don't need to switch to 3 at the back, just need a really good 6 that knows how to play that role inside out. When to sit, when to cover a wing back, how to intercept through balls, how to tackle, how to track a man, to be able to win a long ball in the air, and how to find a simple pass to the 2 8s sitting in front of him. At the moment, our 6 options can all do some of the above, albeit to varying degrees, but none of them can do all of it to the standard required, consistently. Get that position sorted and we look miles better. Edited May 18, 2022 by MrBlack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts