The Midfield Three

[MaVilla]

15 minutes ago, TRO said:

My interpretation of that is too much emphasis on attacking midfield and not enough instinct to defensive midfield.....all too samey for me.

what do you think is our current best midfield 3?

i agree in principle with what you say, but not sure that can be fixed before the summer?

[PaulC]

Guess Nakamba is the one thats different

[TRO]

1 minute ago, PaulC said:

Quite true but I dont theres not enough physicality in our team. Watkins gives us some. we have it at the back but we dont have it in midfield or in the attacking wide positions. Compare Harvey Barnes to what we have. 

I am not sure Harvey Barnes is known for his aggression, only with himself as in desire....but he is just grease lightning.....so he has an attribute, which is difficult to stop.

our 2 wingers don't have much to trouble anyone....Traore, is at least elusive and does possess a deft first touch...aggression, no...not many wingers do, its not really their bag.

we need square pegs in square holes and round pegs in round holes......then we may have a rounded team.

[Tomaszk]

3 minutes ago, TRO said:

When you look at how many attributes a team needs to give another team a game, its only then, we can be sure we are ok or not.

We have to limit our weaknesses.....e.g if we are weak in the air, teams will exploit it....if we lack pace, teams will exploit it.

The squad needs players with varying attributes, to pick a side for the occasion.

Thats why our biggest challenge is not having too many players the same, we need a better blend.

i think our midfield is too much the same.

I think sometimes a grass is greener outlook happens to our fans. When we lose there's a bit of panic and looking around at others. It comes from a place of frustration and that's fine.

We're 8th with two games in hand on nearly every side in the league. They've struggled to exploit too much off us haven't they? Screw em.

Small squad is hurting us right now rather than having players not good enough. That will change in time.

[PaulC]

Just now, TRO said:

I am not sure Harvey Barnes is known for his aggression, only with himself as in desire....but he is just grease lightning.....so he has an attribute, which is difficult to stop.

our 2 wingers don't have much to trouble anyone....Traore, is at least elusive and does possess a deft first touch...aggression, no...not many wingers do, its not really their bag.

we need square pegs in square holes and round pegs in round holes......then we may have a rounded team.

Hes aggressive in his play and more direct.  In the early part of the season we were pressing better as a team, we passed it around in midfield, now we look one dimensional looking to stretch teams with the long ball. Thats old school football. Seems the work-rate has dropped. 

[TRO]

3 minutes ago, MaVilla said:

what do you think is our current best midfield 3?

i agree in principle with what you say, but not sure that can be fixed before the summer?

 I seriously don't know, because they are too samey for me...the players are not bad ones, just too similar in their attributes.

I was disappointed in Jan that we didn't sign an Ndidi or Boussima, I wanted steven NZonzi, when he was moving, but I am not a scout, with their network knowledge and their coverage of whats around.....but i know what we need.

That might not fit, with what others think....but am sure, of what I think.

I would love Rice or Soucek....but not a team full of them.

I want balance, i think we are too samey in areas of our team.....that is not the same as saying the players are bad, they are not.

[TRO]

15 minutes ago, Tomaszk said:

I think sometimes a grass is greener outlook happens to our fans. When we lose there's a bit of panic and looking around at others. It comes from a place of frustration and that's fine.

We're 8th with two games in hand on nearly every side in the league. They've struggled to exploit too much off us haven't they? Screw em.

Small squad is hurting us right now rather than having players not good enough. That will change in time.

I only partly agree...its not grass is greener, its more striving for success and not settling for second best, but appreciating, it takes time....but it only takes time, if we are getting it right and so far it looks like we are.

i think the balance of the squad needs addressing, more than the size.

I hope the powers that be can see that, in the summer.

I think Arsene Wenger was a great manager, but his teams despite the great talent lacked the aggression and will to compete with Alex Fergusons Man Utd....talent will only take you so far.....Man U had the balance right at the time imo.

Thats why the balance of the squad is key for me....we had it in 80/81/82..it was central to our success and the players workrate complimented their skill set.

This is area for me where West Ham have improved too.

Edited February 22, 2021 by TRO

[Tomaszk]

7 minutes ago, TRO said:

I only partly agree...its not grass is greener, its more striving for success and not settling for second best, but appreciating, it takes time....but it only takes time, if we are getting it right and so far it looks like we are.

I think the balance of the squad needs addressing, more than the size.

I hope the powers that be can see that, in the summer.

I think Arsene Wenger was a great manager, but his teams despite the great talent lacked the aggression and will to compete with Alex Fergusons Man Utd....talent will only take you so far.....Man U had the balance right at the time imo.

Thats why the balance of the squad is key for me....we had it in 80/81/82..it was central to our success and the players workrate complimented their skill set.

This is area for me where West Ham have improved too.

Nah, not having this sorry. 

Two injuries and we look half a side. Elmo who can't move in at RB and the sporadic El Ghazi in to start...in the PL?

Our "impact subs" include Trezeguet who can't control the ball and a 19 year old giving it a good go. Barkley who's performances warrant a dropping continues to be picked because the manager doesn't want to throw in another new signing in from the off.

Two 17 year olds on the bench? No strikers bar Keinan Davies on the bench?

The quality is clearly an issue, but I'm not having that the size isn't. It absolutely is. It's a whacking great big problem, which will be addressed in time.

I think we all knew it would cost us in the long run this season. Doesn't excuse shocking performances like the first 30 mins v Leicester and 90 mins v Brighton/Southampton/West Ham. But it makes levels dropping understandable.

[MaVilla]

23 minutes ago, TRO said:

I only partly agree...its not grass is greener, its more striving for success and not settling for second best, but appreciating, it takes time....but it only takes time, if we are getting it right and so far it looks like we are.

i think the balance of the squad needs addressing, more than the size.

I hope the powers that be can see that, in the summer.

I think Arsene Wenger was a great manager, but his teams despite the great talent lacked the aggression and will to compete with Alex Fergusons Man Utd....talent will only take you so far.....Man U had the balance right at the time imo.

Thats why the balance of the squad is key for me....we had it in 80/81/82..it was central to our success and the players workrate complimented their skill set.

This is area for me where West Ham have improved too.

Ironically, for all the softness of Wenger's Arsenal in the last.....quite a few years??, the invincibles were a sight to behold, having Vieira and Silva in the middle doing the dirty work, with Pires, Ljungberg, Reyes, Henry and Bergkamp etc was something else.

[TRO]

1 hour ago, Tomaszk said:

Nah, not having this sorry. 

Two injuries and we look half a side. Elmo who can't move in at RB and the sporadic El Ghazi in to start...in the PL?

Our "impact subs" include Trezeguet who can't control the ball and a 19 year old giving it a good go. Barkley who's performances warrant a dropping continues to be picked because the manager doesn't want to throw in another new signing in from the off.

Two 17 year olds on the bench? No strikers bar Keinan Davies on the bench?

The quality is clearly an issue, but I'm not having that the size isn't. It absolutely is. It's a whacking great big problem, which will be addressed in time.

I think we all knew it would cost us in the long run this season. Doesn't excuse shocking performances like the first 30 mins v Leicester and 90 mins v Brighton/Southampton/West Ham. But it makes levels dropping understandable.

A squad limit is 25, so we all have the same number, how can size be an issue, when we all have the same......The quality is an issue granted, but within that quality, you have to have variation in attributes, too many are too similar, limiting options.

Tom ,If you ignore that, I don'y agree with you.

We let go of Guilbert, why did we do that?

what do you mean a 19 year old giving it a good go?.....there are plenty of 19 year olds playing in the first team in the Prem.....Our academy is reputed to be one of the best.....He has to play, when so called better players are labouring. He has to be given a start.

I would sooner the tea lady start than some of them.

Dean said after the Leicester game...."its doesn't matter if you are in divison 2 or the Premier league ,you have to win the right to play football"

How many times have posters said that on here......I myself have said it umpteen times......there is no getting away from it, we have lost the ability to fight for the initiative, that is what Dean means.....we have too many players at one time not fighting.

 

[TRO]

1 hour ago, PaulC said:

Hes aggressive in his play and more direct.  In the early part of the season we were pressing better as a team, we passed it around in midfield, now we look one dimensional looking to stretch teams with the long ball. Thats old school football. Seems the work-rate has dropped. 

The long ball is because the midfield is Non existent.

[TRO]

1 hour ago, MaVilla said:

Ironically, for all the softness of Wenger's Arsenal in the last.....quite a few years??, the invincibles were a sight to behold, having Vieira and Silva in the middle doing the dirty work, with Pires, Ljungberg, Reyes, Henry and Bergkamp etc was something else.

They have always had talented players in the final 6......that wasn't my point, it was the back 4 that was not up to the standard of the earlier inheritence....they wasn't as durable later on.

Viera and Petite was the driving force and he inherited the back 4 from George Graham......Winterburn-Bould-Adams -Dixon.

That was early in his tenure....he couldn't replicate it for some reason, when they retired.

Edited February 23, 2021 by TRO

[KentVillan]

10 hours ago, TRO said:

They have always had talented players in the final 6......that wasn't my point, it was the back 4 that was not up to the standard of the earlier inheritence....they wasn't as durable later on.

Viera and Petite was the driving force and he inherited the back 4 from George Graham......Winterburn-Bould-Adams -Dixon.

That was early in his tenure....he couldn't replicate it for some reason, when they retired.

Never let the truth get in the way of a good story. Lehman, Lauren, Campbell, Toure, Cole was as good a defence as George Graham’s.

[sparrow1988]

1 hour ago, KentVillan said:

Never let the truth get in the way of a good story. Lehman, Lauren, Campbell, Toure, Cole was as good a defence as George Graham’s.

Better even. Cole and Campbell are easily in either team. Adams probably ahead of Toure but even that's pretty even. I'd probably take Lauren over Dixon.

[PaulC]

12 hours ago, TRO said:

The long ball is because the midfield is Non existent.

It wasn't so whats changed. 

[Zatman]

Lose a game again and the mythical defensive lump is needed in midfield roundabout continues. Only West Ham who struck gold with Soucek and maybe Leicester play a dominant aeriel midfielder

You would think Leicester scored through goals from some aeriel giants and not Maddison and Barnes

I think people are going to be bitterly disappointed again when we dont buy one in summer. I still remember the tears when we didnt sign the almighty Leroy Fer in deadline day and still got promoted

[Vive_La_Villa]

I still think any midfield issues are because of Barkley not dropping and being involved leaving them a man short. Leicester set up similar to us with the main difference being Maddison dropping to create the extra man. 
 

Barkley really needs to be dropped. It’s hindering the team a lot in my opinion.

[danceoftheshamen]

I can't stop worrying about that area in front of the back four where we seem so weak right now. Some players clearly are not doing what they are supposed to in that area and as stated above Barkley not dropping back is surely one of the issues. It has to be that otherwise the only other possibility is it's the way we're set being set up which i am hoping it's not as that would be an even bigger issue.

As for Grealish being out for a period that gives us an opportunity to find how to be effective without him. Time to earn your ££££'s Dean & co!

[sparrow1988]

29 minutes ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

I still think any midfield issues are because of Barkley not dropping and being involved leaving them a man short. Leicester set up similar to us with the main difference being Maddison dropping to create the extra man. 
 

Barkley really needs to be dropped. It’s hindering the team a lot in my opinion.

He either needs to do this or somebody else needs to be put in his place to do it. Players these days will pull you to pieces if you are a man short in midfield. They'll move you around and create spaces to exploit leading to chances. When Grealish is at 10 then he does this. Maddison does it, Fernandes, Smith-Rowe.

His entering into hibernation mode after we lose the ball leads to the other 2 midfielders being outnumbered 3 to 2, sometimes 4 to 2 meaning they are essentially powerless to stem attacks, regardless of if they are Douglas Luiz and John McGinn or Roy Keane and Patrick Vieira.

Barkley is like a less skilled version of Özil. The game outgrew Özil and it will outgrow Barkley unless he changes his style and starts to work harder. My biggest worry is that he is being instructed to play like he is.

Edited February 23, 2021 by sparrow1988

[AVTuco]

17 hours ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said:

When do you sleep?

Judging by his comments on this board: during Villa games.