TRO Posted February 21, 2021 Share Posted February 21, 2021 1 hour ago, Zhan_Zhuang said: Again so weak in the midfield, it's been happening for many games. Both McGinn and Barkley gave the ball away within the first minute of the game against Leicester, yet it happens every week. Should drop all of the midfield passengers. Ramsey again looked good, so too Sanson. Nakamba is so unlucky to not be playing, I'd argue he is actually our in-form midfielder, no defeats with him in the PL (I think?). Nakamba- Sanson-Ramsey against Leeds 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KentVillan Posted February 21, 2021 Share Posted February 21, 2021 McGinn looks slightly overweight to me, and Barkley just looks spent - mentally and physically. Luiz is definitely out of form, but I’d say he is the least worst of the 3, as his passing is still solid. McGinn has this frustrating thing where his Hollywood balls are very good, but he isn’t doing the basics well. I’m also getting increasingly frustrated with how left footed he is, and how he turns himself into trouble because of that. I think he gets away with it when he’s fully fit, but he doesn’t look right at the moment. I’m not sure what the solution is, though. Ramsey is still growing into this level of football, Sanson needs a bit of time to settle, and Nakamba is great defensively but very clumsy in possession. I imagine Smith is worried about throwing Ramsey and Sanson under the bus while the team is out of form, as realistically they won’t be the silver bullet. They might make us a little bit more cohesive, but I think we’ll still be struggling a bit. So yeah, I agree with everyone that it’s not working, and that the midfield 3 are the main problem, but it’s not clear to me how we fix it. Dropping Barkley is probably on the cards now but I can see why Smith has persisted with him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WakefieldVillan Posted February 21, 2021 Share Posted February 21, 2021 On paper most fans would probably agree that the midfield 3 of Luiz, McGinn and Barkley to be the strongest we could field, but all 3 are out of form right now and could all easily be replaced by Nakamba, Sanson and Ramsey - who have all done 'ok' in recent cameos. We just seem lethargic since Covid hit us, especially in the middle of the park. It would take huge balls to replace the entire 'engine' room for the Leeds match but if we play with the same side that started today then the game will be over in half hour like it was today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delphinho123 Posted February 21, 2021 Author Share Posted February 21, 2021 Cost us the match again today. Continues to be a real problem for us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted February 21, 2021 Share Posted February 21, 2021 (edited) 53 minutes ago, KentVillan said: McGinn looks slightly overweight to me, and Barkley just looks spent - mentally and physically. Luiz is definitely out of form, but I’d say he is the least worst of the 3, as his passing is still solid. McGinn has this frustrating thing where his Hollywood balls are very good, but he isn’t doing the basics well. I’m also getting increasingly frustrated with how left footed he is, and how he turns himself into trouble because of that. I think he gets away with it when he’s fully fit, but he doesn’t look right at the moment. I’m not sure what the solution is, though. Ramsey is still growing into this level of football, Sanson needs a bit of time to settle, and Nakamba is great defensively but very clumsy in possession. I imagine Smith is worried about throwing Ramsey and Sanson under the bus while the team is out of form, as realistically they won’t be the silver bullet. They might make us a little bit more cohesive, but I think we’ll still be struggling a bit. So yeah, I agree with everyone that it’s not working, and that the midfield 3 are the main problem, but it’s not clear to me how we fix it. Dropping Barkley is probably on the cards now but I can see why Smith has persisted with him. I agree with much of that, but here is where we differ..... A CDM's main role is winning the ball, stopping the opposition, getting at our back 4.....sure its good to have player who can pass and get attacks going....but there are other prime functions. Dougie for me right now, in his present form, can't do the first bit, he marshals and shadows but loses out in one on ones...If you can't win the ball with any authority, the passing skills are lost...because you haven't won the ball...lately when he does pass, its backwards or sideways in a safe manner, he doesn't take risks, by hitting penetrative balls.....safe is ok, don't get me wrong, but it lacks initiative. have a read of this..... https://medium.com/@aniketsrivastava81/explaining-the-role-of-a-cdm-central-defensive-midfielder-90843b8b4315#:~:text=They are capable of performing,as to nullify opposition threats. This is not an attempt to character assassinate any of our midfield, but need to be sure what we are looking at.....I think the above explanation is very good. not trying to teach my grandmother how to suck eggs, just trying to be helpful. Edited February 21, 2021 by TRO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OxfordVillan Posted February 21, 2021 Share Posted February 21, 2021 My midfield three for Leeds would be Douglas Luiz, Nakamba, and Ramsey or Sanson. I think I’m just slightly edging towards Sanson over Ramsey, but I’d be relaxed with either of the two. What we definitely cannot do is go into the game with one ponderous midfielder who offers nothing of a press, and another who has started to pass the ball to the opposition more often than not. We need to get back to the very basics of players earning their place by doing the simple things very well. We’re not good enough to carry anyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awol Posted February 21, 2021 Share Posted February 21, 2021 24 minutes ago, KentVillan said: So yeah, I agree with everyone that it’s not working, and that the midfield 3 are the main problem, but it’s not clear to me how we fix it. Dropping Barkley is probably on the cards now but I can see why Smith has persisted with him. Nor me, but leaning towards making the 3 a 4, at least until Jack is back. I don’t think we lose much by dropping Barkley, Trez and AEG, Traore can play more of a free role behind Watkins, and a midfield four from Luiz, Nakamba, McGinn, Sanson and Ramsey will make us much more solid and harder to break down. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CVByrne Posted February 21, 2021 Share Posted February 21, 2021 Luiz is out of form, McGinn trying his best when he's playing in a position which he's adapting to and he's not natural in. Barkley is badly out of form and I think that's enough now, he's only got a few games left here and he did a job, he should be relegated to the bench now. I'd swap in Sanson now and move McGinn to a more forward role. For next season we need Jack in a central 10 role and our top priority is to sign a wide left forward who can score goals. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OutByEaster? Posted February 21, 2021 Moderator Share Posted February 21, 2021 41 minutes ago, TRO said: Dougie was taken off today and rightfully so.....we looked far more enterprising when Ramsey and Sanson came on, even though they are not dedicated CDM's either. Luiz was taken off today because he'd been booked covering for Elmohamady, he had to make a lot off last gasp tackles today in covering for other people and there was a decent chance that he'd have to make more - doing that with a card was too much of a risk. He was unlucky today, withdrawn through the faults of others. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdman Posted February 21, 2021 Share Posted February 21, 2021 3 minutes ago, OutByEaster? said: Luiz was taken off today because he'd been booked covering for Elmohamady, he had to make a lot off last gasp tackles today in covering for other people and there was a decent chance that he'd have to make more - doing that with a card was too much of a risk. He was unlucky today, withdrawn through the faults of others. Thought Doug wasn't too bad today. As you say he had to alot of legwork. Can't belive the ref gave him a yellow for running side by side and there was a tangle. So soft from the ref. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted February 21, 2021 Share Posted February 21, 2021 It's hard not to stick with your best players, even when their form is patchy. Luiz still starts for me but we have to change either mcginn, barkley or both for Leeds. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eholm Posted February 21, 2021 Share Posted February 21, 2021 2 hours ago, Sulberto21 said: 6 8. 8 Suits us better than 6. 6. 10. 6. 6 8 suits us better than both of the above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sulberto21 Posted February 21, 2021 Share Posted February 21, 2021 5 minutes ago, eholm said: 6. 6 8 suits us better than both of the above. Still leaves a space between the two DM's though. Teams are playing through us because of that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gaffer85 Posted February 21, 2021 Share Posted February 21, 2021 Think i would like to see a midfield while grealish is out Luiz Nakamba Mcginn Sanson/Ramsay traore Like a Christmas tree formation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eholm Posted February 21, 2021 Share Posted February 21, 2021 19 minutes ago, Sulberto21 said: Still leaves a space between the two DM's though. Teams are playing through us because of that. Not if the 8 performs the role correctly i.e. defensively when out of possession. We just do not have a physically imposing type destroyer who is good enough to play as a sole 6. So many of our team have natural attacking tendencies that we need that double pivot due to personnel. Now, if we had a Ndidi-esque player then one 6 would be fine. Smith, though, has never gone for that type of 6 so I don’t see that drastically changing anytime soon, unfortunately. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GENTLEMAN Posted February 21, 2021 Share Posted February 21, 2021 31 minutes ago, gaffer85 said: Think i would like to see a midfield while grealish is out Luiz Nakamba Mcginn Sanson/Ramsay traore Like a Christmas tree formation Personally, I’d prefer the Christmas pudding with Bertie as the sixpence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andym Posted February 21, 2021 Share Posted February 21, 2021 First half of the season we looked a lot quicker and sharper in midfield, on both sides of the ball, and consequently as a team we looked better. Last few weeks we've looked so slow, Barkley and McGinn in particular have looked like plodders. Watching McGinn today even doing those basic 5 to 10 yard sideways runs/shuffles to cover space defensively - it was painful at times. The first few steps, that initial burst is so important at this level, and those two in particular haven't got it at the moment. In comparison Ramsey looked a breath of fresh air when he came on. Even the little things like moving into space, the way he moved towards the ball when receiving it to make sure he got there first etc. All done so much quicker. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted February 22, 2021 Share Posted February 22, 2021 2 hours ago, eholm said: Not if the 8 performs the role correctly i.e. defensively when out of possession. We just do not have a physically imposing type destroyer who is good enough to play as a sole 6. So many of our team have natural attacking tendencies that we need that double pivot due to personnel. Now, if we had a Ndidi-esque player then one 6 would be fine. Smith, though, has never gone for that type of 6 so I don’t see that drastically changing anytime soon, unfortunately. I think you are right....He won't sort the No6 position,with what we need. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post KentVillan Posted February 22, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted February 22, 2021 (edited) Last season we beat Arsenal 1-0 with Luiz at 6 and McGinn and Hourihane in front of him. He was class in that game. There are countless other results over the last year where Luiz has played lone DM and handled himself fine. He apparently doesn’t win one on ones, and yet today I saw Maddison floored for several minutes after a strong (fair) tackle from Luiz on the edge of our box. I watch him closely every game, and while he definitely isn’t on peak form at the moment, I don’t see him (or the lack of a Nakamba type player)as the key problem at all. What is exposing him and McGinn is a completely unfit 10 playing in front of them, making it too easy for oppo to play the ball through the middle. Did anyone else hear someone screaming at “Roscoe” to close someone down today and he just jogged half arsed as the ball was played around him? You’re fk’d as a DM in that situation because if you press behind the lazy player you just leave space behind you, and if you sit you invite pressure. We’re doing the latter at the moment - ball gets played around Barkley and then Dougie and SJM just sit and wait in front of the defence as oppo charge into the attacking third. I’m still not really sure what will fix this without some serious improvements in fitness and form. But for now I would probably go with Sanson in for Barkley and have two 8s (SJM & Sanson) shuttling either side of Dougie. With Ramsey getting 30 mins second half. I think a lot of Dougie’s perceived weaknesses will disappear with two active 8s in front of him, and SJM is more comfortable in that role anyway. Edited February 22, 2021 by KentVillan 3 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomaszk Posted February 22, 2021 Share Posted February 22, 2021 36 minutes ago, TRO said: I think you are right....He won't sort the No6 position,with what we need. Well I'm sure he will at some point, don't worry. Not that Smith signs the players anyway but if we want to pretend he does, he was busy signing a keeper, right back, number 10, right winger and striker to improve us this summer. They mostly all have and the one that hasn't will be sent packing in May anyway. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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