General officiating/rules

[villa4europe]

Just now, WHY said:

Don’t see the point though. If the VAR official think he’s made a clear and obvious error he can’t really be subjective at this point, hence why the on field decision gets tuned over 99% of the time.

As I said earlier clear and obvious is bullshit, it's spiel, it gives them an out when they do or don't do something, it's complete nonsense that means nothing because they don't put it in to practice

I imagine the conversation today went along the lines of "I think he got the ball first" vs "I think he went through the man to get the ball" which is a conversation that I don't mind them having, he can't be 100% sure and he obviously wasnt hence why it took so long, that was a tough decision

[WHY]

23 minutes ago, villa4europe said:

As I said earlier clear and obvious is bullshit, it's spiel, it gives them an out when they do or don't do something, it's complete nonsense that means nothing because they don't put it in to practice

I imagine the conversation today went along the lines of "I think he got the ball first" vs "I think he went through the man to get the ball" which is a conversation that I don't mind them having, he can't be 100% sure and he obviously wasnt hence why it took so long, that was a tough decision

I didn’t have a good view where I was sitting and haven’t seen it since, was it a pen in your opinion.

[Pinebro]

Best teams with the deeper squads will benefit from these new rules on a massive scale.

You will see these 98th, 99th minute winners every week.

Disastrous for relegation fighting teams.

Nice to cover up the change in the name of "fairness" in a way to keep the sky 6 at the top.

Edited September 16, 2023 by Pinebro

[villa4europe]

4 minutes ago, WHY said:

I didn’t have a good view where I was sitting and haven’t seen it since, was it a pen in your opinion.

Honest... Still don't know, it's really close to being a brilliant tackle, he touches Watkins before the ball but the full contact that brings Watkins down comes after he touched the ball and then after that he's got good clean contact on the ball

There's no right answer to it and no way would you get consistency on it, if that went against us thered be a fair few complaints

Its not a case of "shit ref got it wrong" thats a really hard decision to make, I think fair play to him he stood by his original decision which if he's unsure imo is what he should do

[Villaphan04]

Just now, villa4europe said:

Honest... Still don't know, it's really close to being a brilliant tackle, he touches Watkins before the ball but the full contact that brings Watkins down comes after he touched the ball and then after that he's got good clean contact on the ball

There's no right answer to it and no way would you get consistency on it, if that went against us thered be a fair few complaints

Its not a case of "shit ref got it wrong" thats a really hard decision to make, I think fair play to him he stood by his original decision which if he's unsure imo is what he should do

it's exactly why refereeing is subjective. I remember reading the article last year on refereeing/PGMOL and how decisions are split (they polled the refs and there were differing views). 

this one if the ref calls on the field, he didn't overturn it on VAR. No chance that gets called a pen if the on-field decision is no foul. 

[bobzy]

I think we got lucky with the penalty - it’s 50/50 and we ended up with it.

I have no idea why it wasn’t retaken though; Diaby infringes IMO. Again, pretty lucky. 

[Villaphan04]

 

hmmm

[StefanAVFC]

22 minutes ago, bobzy said:

I think we got lucky with the penalty - it’s 50/50 and we ended up with it.

I have no idea why it wasn’t retaken though; Diaby infringes IMO. Again, pretty lucky. 

Apparently the rule is only enforced if he has an impact on the kick after. I don’t know really. Who knows!

[villa4europe]

1 hour ago, StefanAVFC said:

Apparently the rule is only enforced if he has an impact on the kick after. I don’t know really. Who knows!

The answer to me is still that you make it a dead ball after

Keeper saves it then it's a goal kick, no rebounds, no 2nd chances

Rewards the keeper and makes encroachment pointless, might as well put all the players on the half way line

[Spoony]

2 hours ago, StefanAVFC said:

Apparently the rule is only enforced if he has an impact on the kick after. I don’t know really. Who knows!

I saw this on twitter as well but can’t see it in the actual laws of the game unless I’m looking in the wrong place. 

Incidentally my view is (1) the ref gave the penalty and it was very much 50/50, which made the VAR intervention pointless and controversial for no reason, (2) it was encroachment and should have been retaken. 

Edited September 16, 2023 by Spoony

[VillaChris]

3 hours ago, Pinebro said:

Best teams with the deeper squads will benefit from these new rules on a massive scale.

You will see these 98th, 99th minute winners every week.

Disastrous for relegation fighting teams.

Nice to cover up the change in the name of "fairness" in a way to keep the sky 6 at the top.

Yes. People were making this point about the 5 subs rule but in reality that has made very little difference even with the top sides who don't have endless game turners as subs.

12 minutes extra just benefits the home team so much if they're the expected winner. Will be a record low away wins this season I think as it just feels like you have to hang on to middle of next week to get a big win.

No doubt if we're winning at one of the Manchester clubs we'll be first club to suffer indignity of 20 minutes being added, just you watch...

[YLN]

Ref Watch didn't include the Villa penalty because it was so barn door. Good for them

[Davkaus]

On 16/09/2023 at 22:52, Spoony said:

I saw this on twitter as well but can’t see it in the actual laws of the game unless I’m looking in the wrong place. 

 

As far as I can tell, this is not in the laws of the game, and is instead to do with the remit of VAR:

https://www.premierleague.com/news/1297433

Quote

The VAR can intervene in one of the following instances:

- A clear and obvious error by the on-field match officials relating to goalkeeper movement
- A double touch by the penalty-taker
- Feigning at the point of the kick by the taker
- Encroachment by players that has a direct impact on the outcome of the kick

What I *think* is now the case is that any infringement is an offence and if the ref sees it, they should have made us retake the penalty, but VAR will only intervene if the encroachment had a direct impact. What's a direct impact on the outcome of the kick, are rebounds included? God knows.

[delboy54]

To be honest no professional footballer should be doing basic stuff like foul throws and encroachment when penalties are taken

[Spoony]

Why on earth are the rules different for VAR??? That’s just mental. So depending on what referee you are, different rules apply.

It’s just such an unbelievable cluster **** of such a simple idea 

[sne]

44 minutes ago, Spoony said:

Why on earth are the rules different for VAR??? That’s just mental. So depending on what referee you are, different rules apply.

It’s just such an unbelievable cluster **** of such a simple idea 

Handball rule equally stupid with different rules for defending team vs attacking 

[Chicken Field]

On 16/09/2023 at 20:36, Pinebro said:

Best teams with the deeper squads will benefit from these new rules on a massive scale.

You will see these 98th, 99th minute winners every week.

Disastrous for relegation fighting teams.

Nice to cover up the change in the name of "fairness" in a way to keep the sky 6 at the top.

I don't see how this is an issue tbh. IMO you should not be winning points by not playing the game, only potential issue I see is that I expect the sky 6 get extra added time.

[fightoffyour]

As expected, there is a huge amount of doubt over the Diaby offside decision.

Now that we all know the position of the attacker is to be taken from the first point of contact of the ball not the last, thanks to this thread:

these two frames certainly raise some questions:

Do the officials know the rules? Are they choosing the right frames? Is there enough margin for error?

[Pinebro]

1 minute ago, fightoffyour said:

As expected, there is a huge amount of doubt over the Diaby offside decision.

Now that we all know the position of the attacker is to be taken from the first point of contact of the ball not the last, thanks to this thread:

these two frames certainly raise some questions:

Do the officials know the rules? Are they choosing the right frames? Is there enough margin for error?

Would have counted if it was a sky 6 club 

[MrBlack]

3 minutes ago, fightoffyour said:

As expected, there is a huge amount of doubt over the Diaby offside decision.

Now that we all know the position of the attacker is to be taken from the first point of contact of the ball not the last, thanks to this thread:

these two frames certainly raise some questions:

Do the officials know the rules? Are they choosing the right frames? Is there enough margin for error?

They need to change the way its implemented. Give more margin for error, in a way that favours the attackers  and automate it so it can be done in seconds. 

No-one wants these marginal calls that take minutes to be made.