The AVFC FFP thread

[MWARLEY2]

Just a quick thought on selling our homegrown players over the last couple of years.  Will the fact that a few of them havent shone since getting big money transfers to the premier league mean that clubs won't take the risk on our youth going forward. Carney has been stop start, Archer now struggling with starts and Aaron was not in any way looking prem quality before his acl  albeit in a team that isnt fit for this league. Jaden has shone but thats in the Championship just like Aaron and Csm last season. 

 

[Rugeley Villa]

10 hours ago, HanoiVillan said:

One thing I keep seeing in this thread is some variant of 'qualifying for the Champions League will help', which obviously yes it will, but it's very very likely that we will fail to qualify next season so it's not a reliable revenue stream. We shouldn't be going out buying players on the assumption that repeated qualification for the CL will pay for them, if that's what pays for them then we can't afford them. 

Top 4 sustainability is very hard let alone for a club like ours that missed the boat.  You’re correct in saying it’s unlikely at the moment that we will become a regular top 4 club, and we still haven’t achieved it this season. Financial suicide to go on a mad spending spree. I think our owners are cleverer than to think that anyway. 

[Czarnikjak]

3 hours ago, CVByrne said:

 

I said, this June stuff is a red herring. We do not need to sell players to get under PSR - the Premier League rules.

How are you so certain about it?
 

Looking at the numbers I'm pretty sure we will need to generate some profit in June.
 

In 2022 season we generated £24m ffp surplus.
 

In 2023 season we made a loss of £118m. minus £25m ffp allowable expenses that gives £93m ffp loss for last season.

93-24 = 69m ffp loss, which leaves us with  36m allowable loss to play with this season.

To get to 36 from 93 we need to reduce our losses this season by £57m in comparison to last season.

Have we done it so far? I know our revenue have went up but so our expenses (diaby and Co ain't cheap). I really feel we are short and we will see someone sold in June. I hope I'm wrong and we can somehow scrape through, but the numbers are not encouraging.

 

Edited March 4 by Czarnikjak

[thabucks]

Interesting that we dispute the claim by uefa we lost £138million and that losses although big aren’t that number … 

[sne]

UEFA trying to find a way to throw us out and give our (potential) spot in the CL to Manure  

[ender4]

17 minutes ago, thabucks said:

Interesting that we dispute the claim by uefa we lost £138million and that losses although big aren’t that number … 

No-one is disputing the 118m loss as per the UEFA document.

As pointed out above, 25m of that loss doesn't count for PSR purposes leaving us with 93m PSR/FFP loss for the year.

We are all just trying to work out what that means for 23/24 and this summer which is where the differing views are.

[OutByEaster?]

Over the last couple of years, FFP/PSR has become more complicated than pretty much anyone can keep up with - it's always had an element for financial chicanery, but it's now so densely complex that you'd need the books, the plans, the accountants and access to the Premier league management and UEFA teams to have any clue.

I won't be surprised if we're somehow compliant with both UEFA and the Premier Leagues rules despite also reporting losses that say otherwise.

[Deano & Dalian's Umbrella]

1 hour ago, sne said:

UEFA trying to find a way to throw us out and give our (potential) spot in the CL to Manure  

I wouldn't rule  this out.

[Follyfoot]

11 minutes ago, OutByEaster? said:

Over the last couple of years, FFP/PSR has become more complicated than pretty much anyone can keep up with - it's always had an element for financial chicanery, but it's now so densely complex that you'd need the books, the plans, the accountants and access to the Premier league management and UEFA teams to have any clue.

I won't be surprised if we're somehow compliant with both UEFA and the Premier Leagues rules despite also reporting losses that say otherwise.

Most definitely this. The one thing that our owners are is highly successful driven business people they do not make mistakes like this and hire the very best people to make sure of it 

[CVByrne]

9 hours ago, Czarnikjak said:

How are you so certain about it?
 

Looking at the numbers I'm pretty sure we will need to generate some profit in June.
 

In 2022 season we generated £24m ffp surplus.
 

In 2023 season we made a loss of £118m. minus £25m ffp allowable expenses that gives £93m ffp loss for last season.

93-24 = 69m ffp loss, which leaves us with  36m allowable loss to play with this season.

To get to 36 from 93 we need to reduce our losses this season by £57m in comparison to last season.

Have we done it so far? I know our revenue have went up but so our expenses (diaby and Co ain't cheap). I really feel we are short and we will see someone sold in June. I hope I'm wrong and we can somehow scrape through, but the numbers are not encouraging.

If we believe the £93m as taken from the UEFA presentation. How much was Gerrard and staff payoff and Emery buyout? £15m in total?

We then banked £40m in ffp profit and removed Ings wages and amortisation completely (£15m per year). I think Wesley had been impared off balance sheet hence him leaving permanently in summer (£6m). Young leave (£4m), Coutinho wages removed (£7m). Loans for Dendonker, Sanson.

Then Conference League money, increased commercial and sponsorship deals. We've Watkins and Bailey new deals lowers Amortisation.

So lets say we need to turn 90m loss into 40m. 

we've got 15m for manager change, say 8m from Ings (as was half season). 6m from Wesley, 4m young, £5m for new contracts in amortisation saved, say £5m from Dendonker/Sanson/Traore. £25m additional for the player sales and saved wages saved covered. That's up to an 68m swing so we're +18m

Then Diaby, Torres, Tielemans etc.. is 30m a year in amortisation + wages. Loans are covered by insurance lets say. So we're needing 12m in additional revenue. Covered already by ECL and then more by PL prize money, plus match day, commercial, etc.. I'd say we're +40 there. So comfortable in PSR and not so in the 2 year loss of €80m allowable by UEFA by June ME

 

[wishywashy]

https://www.avfc.co.uk/news/2024/march/04/aston-villa-end-of-year-accounts/

Quote

Aston Villa’s published accounts for the year ended 31st May 2023 show that the Club has made significant progress against their stated focus of consolidation and improvement.

Following a change of sporting leadership in October 2022, the performance of the first team improved dramatically and resulted in a 7th placed finish in the Premier League. This represents our best performance since 2009/10 and ensured that European football returned to Villa Park for the first time in over a decade.

That upward trajectory has continued into the 2023/24 campaign, with the team currently occupying a Champions League qualifying position in the Premier League, while there is also knock-out stage football to look forward to in the UEFA Europa Conference League having topped the group during the initial phase of the competition.

This on-field performance improvement has been supported by continued focus on delivery of our long-term strategic plan to enhance the playing squad in a sustainable fashion. During this financial year, the Club has invested a further £63.7m in the acquisition of new players whilst also generating a profit of over £22m from player sales. This investment is part of the reason why employee wage costs rose to £194.2m (up from £137m) although there were also increases in central support functions to support the growth of the Club which resulted in a 9% increase in overall employee numbers. The amortisation of player contracts also increased by £10m to £92.5m reflecting the increased investment in playing staff.

Aston Villa Women also enjoyed a memorable campaign in 2022/23, recording their highest-ever league finish in the Women’s Super League and reaching the semi-final of the Women’s FA Cup. There was also individual recognition for Rachel Daly, who was awarded the WSL Golden Boot for her 22 league goals last season.

The Club are delighted that Villa Park has been confirmed as a host venue for Euro 2028 and as such we have continued to invest in our infrastructure, with capital investment almost doubling at £13.4m (£7.1m last year). Whilst we continue to seek opportunities to increase the capacity of the stadium, we recognise that this must be done in tandem with improvements to the local transport network. We continue to work with local authorities to find appropriate solutions that will allow fans safe, efficient and affordable access to and from games.

We are also endeavouring to enhance the match day experience for our fans by improving existing facilities across the stadium and its footprint, creating new hospitality offerings and integrating new sponsorship assets. These enhanced experiences are a key part of our commercial strategy to increase revenue and improve the long-term financial strength of the Club.

At Brookvale, in the shadow of Villa Park, the Club opened its new inner-city academy for boys and girls which provides state-of-the-art facilities for the men’s and women’s Academies and the Foundation in the heart of the community in Aston.

Since it opened its doors for the first time in August 2023, the Foundation have recorded more than 20,000 visits while the Academy also host their Early Years Elite Programmes at the Brookvale site.

The Foundation has continued its sterling charitable and community-led work, not only delivering hundreds of sessions per week across a wide spectrum of initiatives and outreach programmes but also maintaining financial and networking support to communities and charities across Birmingham and the wider region.

Revenue increased during the year to £217.7m, up from £178.4m in the previous year. A significant part of this increase is driven by finishing 7th in the Premier League versus a 14th place finish in the prior year, but there were also improvements in gate receipts, sponsorship and commercial revenues.

The net result of these changes is that the Club has reported a loss for the year of £119.6m after tax. This compares with a small profit of £0.3m in the prior year. It is important to note that these figures are in line with the strategic business plan, and we continue to operate within the Premier League’s Profit and Sustainability rules. The owners of Aston Villa remain committed to the long-term and sustainable development of the Club, and we look forward to continued progress on the delivery of our strategic plan.

 

[cheltenham_villa]

9 hours ago, Czarnikjak said:

How are you so certain about it?
 

Looking at the numbers I'm pretty sure we will need to generate some profit in June.
 

In 2022 season we generated £24m ffp surplus.
 

In 2023 season we made a loss of £118m. minus £25m ffp allowable expenses that gives £93m ffp loss for last season.

93-24 = 69m ffp loss, which leaves us with  36m allowable loss to play with this season.

To get to 36 from 93 we need to reduce our losses this season by £57m in comparison to last season.

Have we done it so far? I know our revenue have went up but so our expenses (diaby and Co ain't cheap). I really feel we are short and we will see someone sold in June. I hope I'm wrong and we can somehow scrape through, but the numbers are not encouraging.

 

I dont believe the club would have risk needing a June sale to comply. We spent money in Jan when we didn't need to (the incomings won't really feature). 

Its likely Archer could come back onto the books and potentially zaniolo if we trigger a purchase. 

When I stack up those things we just wouldn't have made those purchases if we were so tight. I just don't believe we would gamble like this

[wishywashy]

Always promising when you have a huge article about announcing your financial accounts and there's no mention of the losses for the year until the very last sentence...

Edited March 4 by wishywashy

[CVByrne]

So accounts are in line with UEFAs report. Prob made around the ~£90m loss in allowable losses to end 2023. 

[Deano & Dalian's Umbrella]

1 minute ago, wishywashy said:

Always promising when you have a huge article about announcing your financial accounts and there's no mention of the losses for the year until the very last sentence...

… And then it disappears.

[wishywashy]

1 minute ago, Deano & Dalian's Umbrella said:

… And then it disappears.

For some reason, you can access it just fine if you go through the Villa website to get to it, but it'll Error 404 if you click a direct link to it or even refresh it...?

[Czarnikjak]

6 minutes ago, wishywashy said:

Always promising when you have a huge article about announcing your financial accounts and there's no mention of the losses for the year until the very last sentence...

If I made the biggest loss of all clubs in Europe I would also leave it to the last sentence

[Villa87]

Where does this leave us cutting through the Villa PR machine?

[alreadyexists]

I’m no expert but isn’t the total loss you’re allowed spread over a rolling three years? 
 

Quote

The net result of these changes is that the Club has reported a loss for the year of £119.6m after tax. This compares with a small profit of £0.3m in the prior year.

Apparently we have £56m of that £119m which can be deducted as it’s a Covid cost. 

[omariqy]

£56m due to Covid losses?