Ollie Watkins

[Keyblade]

We're 3rd in Europe for expected goals. Our attack is firing on all cylinders right now. I couldn't give a toss if the goals are scored by Ollie, Moussa or Nicolo.

[JAMAICAN-VILLAN]

16 minutes ago, Keyblade said:

We're 3rd in Europe for expected goals. Our attack is firing on all cylinders right now. I couldn't give a toss if the goals are scored by Ollie, Moussa or Nicolo.

Surely skewed by Hibs results in fairness?

[CVByrne]

39 minutes ago, Tom13 said:

You need to watch his allround performances though. Stats (and goals) aren't everything.

Yes, his all round performances have been excellent. I've commented on how his link up play has improved. 

[abdulaziz1]

11 minutes ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said:

Surely skewed by Hibs results in fairness?

Goal for: 11

So no it’s only for League.

[Keyblade]

10 minutes ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said:

Surely skewed by Hibs results in fairness?

No, they're league stats. Here are the PL stats. Same figure:

 

[Tom13]

20 minutes ago, CVByrne said:

Yes, his all round performances have been excellent. I've commented on how his link up play has improved. 

Each to their own. I definitely wouldn't define them as anywhere near excellent.

[nick76]

11 hours ago, CVByrne said:

Yes, his all round performances have been excellent. I've commented on how his link up play has improved. 

I can’t agree that his performances have been excellent…for him they have been mostly below par this season.

Edited September 19, 2023 by nick76

[nick76]

17 hours ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

I feel some just don’t rate him so are eager to post about him when he isn’t scoring. I get that but it’s a shame because he is a valuable player for the way he leads the line. 

I was thinking at it differently that some are so eager to post about him that they’ll defend him whatever.  
 

He’s one of those players that causes more debate than usual,  over defend him and nothing is ever his fault to those that are over critical.

I sometimes fall into the latter category generally when those who over defend him and say he’s excellent in a game when it’s evident that wasn’t true. I think my difference is that I compliment him when he plays well as well.

[Vive_La_Villa]

57 minutes ago, nick76 said:

I was thinking at it differently that some are so eager to post about him that they’ll defend him whatever.  
 

He’s one of those players that causes more debate than usual,  over defend him and nothing is ever his fault to those that are over critical.

I sometimes fall into the latter category generally when those who over defend him and say he’s excellent in a game when it’s evident that wasn’t true. I think my difference is that I compliment him when he plays well as well.

I personally think he’s a top player but at times needs to be more clinical. But no striker takes every chance they get so when they are not scoring as long as they occupying defenders and assisting for other players to score it’s all you can ask. 
 

I think Ollie is doing that so whilst I think he should have scored a few already. I’m happy with how he has played so far. 

[Tom13]

It always comes back to finishing...most of us who critique him have a bigger issue than just his finishing.

I also praise him when I think he's done well though (second half VS Newcastle I said he played well as he was making clever passes and looked sharp).

[VillanousOne]

He's a striker so there will always be frustration and anxiety when he doesn't score and on that front he definitely isn't delivering and i'd hope he improves soon.

BUT he is still causing defenders problems, creating space for others and setting up goals/winning penalties, he is by no means a passenger and I don't think any other player we have can hold the ball up the way he can, Diaby and Bailey are too slight and lack physicality. Zanilo might when he beds in and Duran is a work in progress.

Can he do better yes, is he playing poorly, not even close.

Edited September 19, 2023 by VillanousOne

[YLN]

12 minutes ago, VillanousOne said:

He's a striker so there will always be frustration and anxiety when he doesn't score and on that front he definitely isn't delivering and i'd hope he improves soon.

BUT he is still causing defenders problems, creating space for others and setting up goals/winning penalties, he is by no means a passenger and I don't think any other player we have can hold the ball up the way he can, Diaby and Bailey are too slight and lack physicality. Zanilo might when he beds in and Duran is a work in progress.

Can he do better yes, is he playing poorly, not even close.

 

 

 

[MrBlack]

Needs a goal in the PL to find his scoring boots. 

But he doesn't need a goal to continue being a key component of our attack.

It's the defence that is struggling more at the moment, but I think that's a conscious decision from Emery to be more threatening.  Its generally working, but struggled away to a very good Liverpool and got upset by a freak injury against Newcastle. 

Watkins will find the net soon, and get back to his xG average. Meanwhile the rest of the goalscorers who are exceeding their xG will probably drop down. As long as we keep playing as we are, the team,  as a whole, will keep scoring.

[nick76]

2 hours ago, VillanousOne said:

Can he do better yes, is he playing poorly, not even close.

See that’s we differ, I think he isn’t playing well for him. I’m not talking about scoring…I’m not sure I see how anybody thinks he played decent against Palace for example.

[TRO]

Ollie is in a form dip, for sure.....but I am not giving up on him.

He needs to find some "conviction" in his game, for me.

His passive demeanor, is fuelling this form dip, imo.....He looks like he is feeling sorry for himself.

You have to work hard, through a form dip, shake those cobwebs of doubt....and make something happen, by challenging and disrupting, and nicking the ball.

waiting for the " Roy of the Rovers " pass, won't come.....He has to show the conviction of an Ivan Toney.

Ollie has a lot in his game, but he needs to add a bit of tenacity and Courage.

[VillanousOne]

2 hours ago, nick76 said:

See that’s we differ, I think he isn’t playing well for him. I’m not talking about scoring…I’m not sure I see how anybody thinks he played decent against Palace for example.

won a penalty?

wouldn't say he was decent, still involved, still contributing, not to the level he can, he's definitely suffering from a loss of confidence and has another level in him. I just don't think 'he needs to be sold/not good enough for where we want to go style horsepoop' that gets bandied about (IMO).

Not aimed at you, but just be nice if it wasn't always extremes of opinion on here, there can be levels/nuance/grey areas, a striker can still be playing well even if not scoring for example. 

People use past players as examples, past players who in some cases have somehow become better since they played for us.

[Farlz]

He is one of the worst finishers in the league quite comfortably. No matter how good the rest of his game can be, that's what drives me mad. His miss against Palace is just so bad but that's what I expect from Watkins unfortunately.

After the Chelsea and Brighton games though we're about to hit a very nice run of fixtures where you'd hope he hits one of his scoring streaks and gets his confidence up. Said it before as well, no matter how much he annoys me it would cost way too much for a club like us to replace him. 

[Zatman]

On 18/09/2023 at 13:10, nick76 said:

And yet if in a hypothetical, in the next league game we were only allowed to play Watkins or Diaby the majority of fans would choose Diaby I’m guessing because the performances and impact has been very different this season.  

Purely relying on stats starts the conversation of the El Ghazi effect where stats give a difference impression on the player’s ability to reality

I bet Unai would choose Ollie if he had that choice though

[Zatman]

3 hours ago, MrBlack said:

Needs a goal in the PL to find his scoring boots. 

But he doesn't need a goal to continue being a key component of our attack.

It's the defence that is struggling more at the moment, but I think that's a conscious decision from Emery to be more threatening.  Its generally working, but struggled away to a very good Liverpool and got upset by a freak injury against Newcastle. 

Watkins will find the net soon, and get back to his xG average. Meanwhile the rest of the goalscorers who are exceeding their xG will probably drop down. As long as we keep playing as we are, the team,  as a whole, will keep scoring.

He would have had a goal too if Zaniolo had passed

[birdman]

20 minutes ago, Farlz said:

He is one of the worst finishers in the league quite comfortably. No matter how good the rest of his game can be, that's what drives me mad. His miss against Palace is just so bad but that's what I expect from Watkins unfortunately.

After the Chelsea and Brighton games though we're about to hit a very nice run of fixtures where you'd hope he hits one of his scoring streaks and gets his confidence up. Said it before as well, no matter how much he annoys me it would cost way too much for a club like us to replace him. 

Fortunately we now have a team of very good goal scorers so even though Ollie is struggling to find the back of the net his hard work can create opportunities for others.