Ollie Watkins

[Kiwivillan]

4 minutes ago, Tom13 said:

As I said in my other post, it's not just numbers I'm taking into account to say he's not good enough for the next level. He also has one of the lowest goals per minute ratios from the league's top 25 scorers.

He has lot of assists for a striker. Goal contributions as important as goals and he gets a discount for Gerrard ball for 11 games

[alreadyexists]

13 hours ago, DJBOB said:

Agreed here. He should be the 9 to carry us until we can splash 50M+ for a better one. We need more scoring from other positions before Ollie. 

To be honest with the market the way it is I think Ollie is probably worth £50m to the right club… I think we’d need to spend a lot more than that for a ‘guaranteed’ centre forward of higher quality. 

[Vive_La_Villa]

I don’t think trying to improve on Ollie is anywhere near a priority at the moment in my opinion.  

[Sulberto21]

35 minutes ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

I don’t think trying to improve on Ollie is anywhere near a priority at the moment in my opinion.  

Agreed - only way we improve on Ollie is by spending £100m + . Best way to make him better is by getting him a colleague who can also score 10-15 goals and have 5-8 assists from the SS /FW positions. 

[tinker]

3 hours ago, Tom13 said:

As I said in my other post, it's not just numbers I'm taking into account to say he's not good enough for the next level. He also has one of the lowest goals per minute ratios from the league's top 25 scorers.

You just don't see what others do. Let's see what he offers with a full season under Emery. I'm not interested in stats tbh, I watch him play a full game and he's a real handful for defenders , his running stretches defenses and makes space for others. At the moment we have Bailey and Buendia who are both struggling to add goals and assists using the space Ollie provides. 

Edited May 21, 2023 by tinker

[Stevo71]

Your main forward not able to be trusted to take your pens does have me scratching my head a bit though. When I think of watching a brimming with confidence Yorke making a mug of David Seaman... 

Is it common? Struggling to think of a situation like it over the years. I get we've had players *even better* than our main strikers - Barry, Staunton I think, but not completely instead of due to lack of faith.

Hope that doesn't come across harsh, I do really like Ollie and fully respect his progress and contribution.

[Marka Ragnos]

Salah missed a crucial pen like a month ago, didn't he? May have actually helped keep L'pool out of the CL this year, if you look at it one way. It does happen even with the greats. Ollie reminds me a lot of Rashford who has sometimes been very inconsistent but when you look at him over time, he's brought us so many wins! (off topic but I still think Bailey will get even better, too. A lot of people have given up on Bailey, but I still think there's a more consistent player in there.)

Edited May 21, 2023 by Marka Ragnos

[Stevo71]

11 hours ago, Marka Ragnos said:

Salah missed a crucial pen like a month ago, didn't he? May have actually helped keep L'pool out of the CL this year, if you look at it one way. It does happen even with the greats. Ollie reminds me a lot of Rashford who has sometimes been very inconsistent but when you look at him over time, he's brought us so many wins! (off topic but I still think Bailey will get even better, too. A lot of people have given up on Bailey, but I still think there's a more consistent player in there.)

That's a good point. Hope you're right about Bailey too. In fact there's a few I'd like to see get some serious tuition from UE and team, not least Ollie - let's hope he can push on. 

[Dale]

12 hours ago, Stevo71 said:

Barry, Staunton

You're forgetting El Ghazi who was the best penalty taker in the league. Ice in the veins. 

Plenty of strikers aren't great at them, weirdly. 

[Stevo71]

1 hour ago, Dale said:

You're forgetting El Ghazi who was the best penalty taker in the league. Ice in the veins. 

Plenty of strikers aren't great at them, weirdly. 

Of course! And some of that was even with ice-man Tammy available.

[romavillan]

1 hour ago, Dale said:

You're forgetting El Ghazi who was the best penalty taker in the league. Ice in the veins. 

Plenty of strikers aren't great at them, weirdly. 

Finally some El Ghazi love, yep he took some penalties under massive pressure and handled it no problems.

[romavillan]

As others have said, a pre-season with Emery and a full season with Emery and then we can compare stats with others in the league. This season he had to write off between a quarter and a third of the matches due to Gerrard's 'tactics'.

if we get a top wide forward, and quality competition for Buendia then Ollie will absolutely thrive.

[stewiek2]

Ollie is good enough for now but moving forward he does need upgrading. He's not 'clever' enough or, at a basic level, annoyingly has an inability to lift the ball consistently. Too many shots are toe pokes. If we want to smash that top 4-6 we need a striker who is, for want of a better word, a selfish bully.

[StefanAVFC]

He gets absolutely nothing from refs. He's pulled and pushed over every game and barely gets a foul. Look at him compared to Kane for example.

[Tom13]

34 minutes ago, StefanAVFC said:

He gets absolutely nothing from refs. He's pulled and pushed over every game and barely gets a foul. Look at him compared to Kane for example.

Very true. Refs aren't clever or ballsy enough so they let Kane being snide every game work in his favour Ollie doesn't have a deceitful bone in his body.

[Marka Ragnos]

3 hours ago, Tom13 said:

Very true. Refs aren't clever or ballsy enough so they let Kane being snide every game work in his favour Ollie doesn't have a deceitful bone in his body.

 Not trying to be controversial, but it feels like there’s a double standard for players, too. I do think it’s harder for players of colour — they get denigrated as “deceptive “ etc.— to get away with overreacting whereas white players such as Kane and Grealish are sometimes seen as "winning a pen" and “clever” or “knowing how to draw a foul,” as if it’s a huge skill. Maybe I’m misreading but I get that impression. 

 

Edited May 22, 2023 by Marka Ragnos

[MrBlack]

46 minutes ago, Marka Ragnos said:

 Not trying to be controversial, but it feels like there’s a double standard for players, too. I do think it’s harder for players of colour — they get denigrated as “deceptive “ etc.— to get away with overreacting whereas white players such as Kane and Grealish are sometimes seen as "winning a pen" and “clever” or “knowing how to draw a foul,” as if it’s a huge skill. Maybe I’m misreading but I get that impression. 

 

Probably not far off, but I do think it's more big club bias than player specific. Salah a prime example of one who gets decisions at a big club he wouldn't get if he played for anyone other than the sky 6.

Ollie would win loads of freekicks playing for Man united or liverpool or the like. Their fans and players and managers would be all over the refs forcing the matter.

[allani]

On 21/05/2023 at 11:26, Sulberto21 said:

Agreed - only way we improve on Ollie is by spending £100m + . Best way to make him better is by getting him a colleague who can also score 10-15 goals and have 5-8 assists from the SS /FW positions. 

As I have said in the Transfer thread - I wouldn't be surprised if we get another attacking goalscorer who is similar to Ollie - i.e. happy to drop deep to get the ball, happy to drift wide to find space, good at pressing defenders, able to lead the line too and hold up play and not so an out and out "9".  This would see Ollie and new forward kind of interchanging the 9 / 10 position during the game / during phases of play.  Plus a real ball-carrying AM (possibly starting wide) who can attack defensive lines in the way that Grealish could / does.  I think part of Ollie's strength is that he can target different parts of the pitch at different times.  He will definitely benefit from Unai and the coaching team explaining what he needs to do.  The Ollie / Ings thing didn't work because neither Smith nor Gerrard knew what they wanted each of them to do (and kept changing their positions / roles) so both Ollie and Ings were a bit lost.  I don't think Ings had the pace we needed for the job we wanted him to do.  I don't think Ollie's run of good form was down to us selling Ings and him feeling less threatened as much as it was down to him suddenly understanding what the manager wanted him to do and the rest of the team knowing how they should be trying to involve him.

[Guest av1]

On 21/05/2023 at 09:49, Vive_La_Villa said:

I don’t think trying to improve on Ollie is anywhere near a priority at the moment in my opinion.  

Agreed. Ollie offers so much more than goals alone to the team. We would need to spend a huge amount to find someone better, and than money can be better spent on some quality wide forwards to support him, upgrading guys like Bailey and Traore. 

5 hours ago, StefanAVFC said:

He gets absolutely nothing from refs. He's pulled and pushed over every game and barely gets a foul. Look at him compared to Kane for example.

Because he’s honest. It’s my biggest gripe with referees that honesty is isn’t “rewarded” in the same way as play acting. A foul is a foul, irrespective of how many times a player rolls around looking like he’s been shot. 

[PaulC]

He would have scored that penalty a few weeks ago when he was on fire. We do need competition in that position but someone who is versatile enough to play  as a 10 or wide right or left as well. Not another Danny Ings type