Academy General Topic

[Richard]

How many other players in those plop and psg sides were "academy" players?

[sne]

No idea, why do you ask?

[Richard]

Because for me one or two in a team of better quality more experienced players is the right way of doing it. Having a first team where the academy players (good quality or not) are the mainstay is not the way to go.

[danceoftheshamen]

Because for me one or two in a team of better quality more experienced players is the right way of doing it. Having a first team where the academy players (good quality or not) are the mainstay is not the way to go.

Exactly right Richard...inexperience can only go so deep before it counts against a team. Just a bit... i.e no more than a couple of youngsters at a time, can be good as it adds an "unknown" element... too much however severely effects results in most cases. The exception being that Man U side back in the day but that was a one off it appears.

[sne]

Because for me one or two in a team of better quality more experienced players is the right way of doing it. Having a first team where the academy players (good quality or not) are the mainstay is not the way to go.

Yes i totally agree, very few team (Barcelona, Hajduk Split, AJAX...) are able to be successful in their leagues and still have a large part of their team built on academy players

[TRO]

I remember one of our well fancied youth teams going to middlesborogh to compete in some final and it was like men v boys our lot were completely physically outplayed/out muscled....some were lots for words.

Its not a case of kicking the kids, they try their best ..... its about football judgement and the total over hyping of them is not helpful.

[McGregor1888]

I remember one of our well fancied youth teams going to middlesborogh to compete in some final and it was like men v boys our lot were completely physically outplayed/out muscled....some were lots for words.

Its not a case of kicking the kids, they try their best ..... its about football judgement and the total over hyping of them is not helpful.

You're using the example of Villa contesting an FA Youth Cup Final to prove how over-rated our youth teams are?

[8pints]

I still have faith in Herd, Baker, Clark (Possibly as a defensive midfielder), Daniel Johnson, Gary Gardner (When he recovers from his injury), Albrighton and Bannan.

They have missed stepping up to a first team full of good experienced players willing to share the pressure of Premiership football and all the knowledge they have to depart.

They had one season with a manager who wanted to play football similar to the type they played at youth level whose ideas of shipping out the rot turned out to be hasty after poor health followed by a poor manager who then dropped them in at the deep end.

There's a difference between taking the massive step up to Premiership football in a transitional mixture from an already established first team (You could argue crucial members were sold) and stepping up to be first choice because of a ton of injuries and not enough quality in the older players.

[Die_Hard]

I don't think any of our current crop of Academy graduates, with the exceptions of possibly Clark and Weimann, are anywhere near good enough to take us to the next level. I see them going on to become also-rans in the same mould as many who went before them (Gardner, Ridgewell, Moore, Davis, Samuel, Whittingham etc)

There is no doubt our academy is very good and consistently brings players through. But apart from Cahill, in recent years how many of those players ever go on to be considered top class? Gabby and Vassell made the fringes of the national team but neither of them are world beaters by any stretch. I know it is tiny percentage of players who make it to the top. Perhaps only once in a generation do you get a Wayne Rooney for all the thousands of others who end up as lower league nobodies. I'm not saying our youngsters are bad but they are certainly overrated. And Lerner, like Ellis before him, seems to be deluding himself that they may one day blossom into great players, therefore saving him money on improving the squad.

All I can say is I hope they prove me wrong.

[Houlston]

Burke had a very promising début last night, its fair to say he doesn't lack any confidence. I think the first thing he did was force a save and it seemed like he was pretty much always on the ball or at least involved in any play.

[ozvillafan]

I don't think the players coming through the academy are all that bad. In fact, I think a lot of them show a great deal of promise.

However, I do believe the academy has failed them - or, at the very least, the club has. The idea behind the academy is that it gets its players ready to slot into the first team (should they be good enough). In order to do that, they must have been learning from very early on exactly how the first team play and what their role is. This is exactly what teams like Barcelona have been doing.

We haven't been doing that.

On top of that, the playing style of the first team has changed dramatically over the past 4 years with MON, Houllier, McLeish and now Lambert. That lack of consistency has hardly helped the youngsters "slot into the first team" - and that's not their fault.

So are the academy players all world-beaters? No, they are not. But I think our academy has made them less than they could (and should) be - and that's not the players fault.

The sad part is the next crop will fall short too, unless Lambert is able to overhaul our academy so they adhere to 1 style AND remain here for the long term.

[blandy]

I don't think the players coming through the academy are all that bad. In fact, I think a lot of them show a great deal of promise.

However, I do believe the academy has failed them - or, at the very least, the club has. The idea behind the academy is that it gets its players ready to slot into the first team (should they be good enough). In order to do that, they must have been learning from very early on exactly how the first team play and what their role is. This is exactly what teams like Barcelona have been doing.

We haven't been doing that.

Good point. Isn't it a bit like any education system - for example the secondary school's job is to get students ready for the next stage - be that work, or university. Students leave with exam results and qualifications - the parallel with our academy is many of the players leaving with youth trophies etc.

It's the next step which is the issue - some of them go on to have careers at non-prem clubs and do well at that level, a few stay in the prem and some end up leaving footrball.

It's not the academy that's the issue - it's the level of talent, the way the first team handles them and the way wherever they move to handles them.

The academy is a good one doing a good job

[barry'sboots]

I don't think the players coming through the academy are all that bad. In fact, I think a lot of them show a great deal of promise.

However, I do believe the academy has failed them - or, at the very least, the club has. The idea behind the academy is that it gets its players ready to slot into the first team (should they be good enough). In order to do that, they must have been learning from very early on exactly how the first team play and what their role is. This is exactly what teams like Barcelona have been doing.

We haven't been doing that.

I always thought like this. I think Arsenal do the same.

However, things are a bit different under Lambert as he likes to use a mix of styles and formations and therefore, needs his players to have a bit more flexibility. But I would agree that the first team coaches/ management need to work closely with the reserve team and youth set up to ensure that their focus is more about making good players than perhaps looking to make teams that can win trophies.

Its also quite challenging when, at youth/now reserve levels, we seem to have a couple of good and exciting wingers in Grealish and Graham but we don't really have any similar players/little width at first team level so it would potentially hamper them to make the reserves etc. play narrowly like the first team might. Equally, their development as out and out wingers brings a new potential dimension to our first team when they come through.

I don't think our youth gets loaned out enough to prove themselves in competitive environments and, therefore, it is always a really big step up to first team level from reserves. Where they have been, e.g. Herd and Lichaj, this seems to have worked to our benefit. I would love to see DJ getting a season out at, say, Coventry. I would also like to see Caruthers get a spell out at the top of the Championship but we probably need to sign another wide player to facilitate this. I think this also helps you develop links with these clubs and, hopefully, puts you at the front of the queue when/if they have any decent players that are worth going for.

[8pints]

I don't think our youth gets loaned out enough to prove themselves in competitive environments and, therefore, it is always a really big step up to first team level from reserves. Where they have been, e.g. Herd and Lichaj, this seems to have worked to our benefit. I would love to see DJ getting a season out at, say, Coventry. I would also like to see Caruthers get a spell out at the top of the Championship but we probably need to sign another wide player to facilitate this. I think this also helps you develop links with these clubs and, hopefully, puts you at the front of the queue when/if they have any decent players that are worth going for.

Yeah I agree with you whole heatedly on this.

Think the problem has been, especially last season, that we haven't had enough quantity in our squad so they've been kept on call.

Could always loan them out with option to bring back any time to combat that though I suppose.

[McGregor1888]

I thought Clark looked pretty useful on Sunday. And Bannan. And Lichaj. Weimann's getting sharp too.

Obviously, as with all youngsters, you have to give them time, support and plenty of patience - they will have their ups and downs. I'll make no sweeping knee-jerk statements here but I will say they all looked more than capable Premier League footballers on Sunday.

[Texas_Mike]

And on the 8th day after the crucification the Villa Academmy rose from the death and as one said forgive them Lord "Cowans". They know not what they did.

[romavillan]

And on the 8th day after the crucification the Villa Academmy rose from the death and as one said forgive them Lord "Cowans". They know not what they did.

ahaha. yeah i'm pretty amazed there are critics of an academy that has produced cahill, agbonlahor, albrighton, bannan, weimann, craig gardner, gary gardner, luke moore, ciaran clark, baker, lichaj and herd.

all of whom have contributed to our cause to a greater or lesser extent. all of whom can be classed as good players. who knows, some may become great. certainly cahill could end up being very highly regarded internationally if he plays his cards right.

there's a new crop on the way too that people are excited about. i've said it before in this thread but what does the acedemy have to do to be regarded as a success? let alone being pronounced dead!!!

[Dr_Pangloss]

Bannan crossing to Clarky to score. Not bad. This thread is **** stupid.

[Foxy1]

Even Osbourne is turning out for one of the best sides in the Championship!

[Dodgyknees]

Bannan crossing to Clarky to score. Not bad. This thread is **** stupid.

Agree, that cross made him world class.