Johan Lange

[TrentVilla]

2 hours ago, TRO said:

but, by that....it suggests to me he has a slightly different mandate to the dep't Purslow runs....like a seperate dep't, his own entitiy.

He is clearly not reporting directly to Purslow, based on that......He will report to the board like other Directors.

My reading of it is that they are building a structure with segmented responsibilities of people at senior level. Each accountable for their own elements of operations.

Mark Harrison in charge of youth development and recruitment and the coaching staff below senior level

Johan Lange in charge of scouting, analysis and player recruitment at all levels in conjunction with Harrison and Smith

Dean Smith in charge of 1st Team, Under 23’s and all senior staff plus a day in senior player recruitment 

Christian Purslow in charge of all commercial activity and ulitimatley the management of the above on a day to day basis.

Edens clearly is interesting in the stats side of analysis and Sawris strikes me as a out and out commerce guy who also likes football. I don’t think either can be hands on with all their other interest and being non UK based, I certainly don’t think the likes of Harrison and Lange will report to them regularly.

So I agree about departments but not sure they are separate, more segmented but overlapping in areas all under the guidance and control of Purslow. I don’t for one moment think Purslow’s position is any different or weaker today than it was a month ago, in fact I’d say it’s stronger after survival.

But clearly last summer didn’t go well enough, Suso’s paid for it but I do get a sense that the Eden’s and Sawaris want greater oversight of that area moving forward.

[hippo]

1 hour ago, TRO said:

My Understanding of Board structures....is not ,No.

Purslow, is not the board he is only on it.

I am not Privvy to the Villa structure in detail, so I am only picking up stuff reported.

But I am clear in the definition, reporting directly to Purslow, is not the same as reporting directly to the board.

Everyone who reports directly to Purslow in line management will not attend Board meetings.....It seems to me, by whats being reported, Johan Lange will attend board meetings.....that suggests to me he has his own Department......They may share common interests in the welfare of the club, but that will be overseen in board meetings.

Thats my interpretation, from the limited information I have.

I almost get the impression the owners want to seperate the financial side of player transfers from the inner workings of the club and not get them all washed up together.....with a view to keep better stock and control of the transfer system.

I think Simon Jordan is right, when owners are distant from the day to day workings of the club, transparency is a key component for them to work with.

It could in theory work really well, under those circumstances.

It's a fair point.

I think Purslow runs the show on a day to day basis. Big financial decisions and maybe appointing the manager the owners will have an input.

I don't think Lange is  reporting  to the owners- he may well attend board meetings if we are recruiting a new manager or to agree next season's budget ...

He is quite a young man and we had a poster on here saying that Solbaken is the big decision maker at compenhagen.it doesn't strike me as a senior enough appointment to be on a level with CP.

I'm just hoping he unearths the next Benteke or Martin Lauren.

 

[Mjvilla]

1 hour ago, TRO said:

you seem to have ignored the final 3 lines, where I said on the other hand ,it could work well...... because it doesn't fit the agenda you seek.

You are assuming, I want it to be trouble....because thats the view you have of my views......I want Harmony as much as you......but I don't know the personalities, so I am speculating, either way.

don't confuse what I think could happen with the reporting procedure itself.......one is a possible scenario, the other is fact....if the reporting procedure has been disclosed properly, there isn't a " he is in a way" .....He either reports to Purslow or he doesn't, that is my entire point......if he is on the board, he works WITH Purslow, not FOR him.

Its not looking for trouble....its more about being aware of potential pit falls.......We haven't exactly been a kindergarten organsiation over the last decade or so, so it is hardly searching for downsides....there has been plenty to chew on.

I can see why the ownwers have done it.......In my humble opinion, I think the restructuring is designed given more control back to the owners in relation to financing of player transfers, making it more accountable, some could think it is limiting Purslows responsibility, that maybe so,too.

When you edit the post after I quoted it then there really isn't much I can do. But, just like you've done with Smith for the past few months, any stick to beat me with. 

[TRO]

50 minutes ago, TrentVilla said:

My reading of it is that they are building a structure with segmented responsibilities of people at senior level. Each accountable for their own elements of operations.

Mark Harrison in charge of youth development and recruitment and the coaching staff below senior level

Johan Lange in charge of scouting, analysis and player recruitment at all levels in conjunction with Harrison and Smith

Dean Smith in charge of 1st Team, Under 23’s and all senior staff plus a day in senior player recruitment 

Christian Purslow in charge of all commercial activity and ulitimatley the management of the above on a day to day basis.

Edens clearly is interesting in the stats side of analysis and Sawris strikes me as a out and out commerce guy who also likes football. I don’t think either can be hands on with all their other interest and being non UK based, I certainly don’t think the likes of Harrison and Lange will report to them regularly.

So I agree about departments but not sure they are separate, more segmented but overlapping in areas all under the guidance and control of Purslow. I don’t for one moment think Purslow’s position is any different or weaker today than it was a month ago, in fact I’d say it’s stronger after survival.

But clearly last summer didn’t go well enough, Suso’s paid for it but I do get a sense that the Eden’s and Sawaris want greater oversight of that area moving forward.

well put.

much how I see it.

I think the restructuring is driven by your comments, I have highlighted.

I guess the financial implications and apportionment in terms of the whole business, relate more to transfers than any other single entitiy, hence the ability for them to scrutinise more carefully and micro manage it.

All makes sense.

[TRO]

44 minutes ago, Mjvilla said:

When you edit the post after I quoted it then there really isn't much I can do. But, just like you've done with Smith for the past few months, any stick to beat me with. 

Sorry, that was not meant.....but I enjoy our ding dongs.

I think, sifting through stuff, we both agree on our club becoming stronger is our prime mission.

UTV

 

[NPDK]

The 'Johan Lange Special' podcast were released earlier today and as promised, here's what was said. It was a rather short one (35 minutes), but still pretty solid. Like the last one, I've been paraphrasing it.

Initial thoughts on Lange to Villa.
He wasn’t one of the first names you’d think about if asked which Danes would land a Premier League job. But he’s an extremely respected man in Denmark, and one of those guys that pretty much every manager, coach and other DOF’s looked up to. He’s by far Ståle Solbakkens favorite guy to work with (and Solbakkens word carries a lot of weight in Denmark, rightfully so I might say).

He’s also really, really good friends with Thomas Frank at Brentford. Lange was rumored to be Frank’s assistant when Frank worked at Brøndby IF from 2013-2016. 

They absolutely love the fit from a Danish point of view. Aston Villa is still a massive club and one with a future. As they said, it wouldn’t have been as exciting had Lange been appointed at Brighton. Not because Brighton is a bad or borring club, but because they don’t carry the same name recognition that Villa does and doesn’t have the means we do. They said, that if he hit it right, we are a club that could challenge for Europe relatively soon simply because of the money in our owner’s pockets as well as the facilities that we have. They didn’t call us a sleeping giant, but they were kind of gushing about the potential of this club. 

The job and the Grealish situation.
First order of business for Lange should be to get on the exact same page as Smith, JT and O’Kelly. They talked about how an actual ‘director of football/sporting director’ is still relatively new in the UK, so it’s not something every manager is familiar/comfortable working with. It’s a big plus that DS has that experience. It’s makes everything a hell of lot easier when Lange doesn’t have to worry about a power-struggle from day one. 

Second order of business is Jack. If Jack lets Lange know that he wants to leave, Lange needs to figure out how to replace him. That could pretty much make or break Langes Premier League adventure. Would he be trying to replace Grealish with one ‘star-player’ or multiple players (like some have suggested in the transfer thread). 

How much influence will Lange get?
As I mentioned in another post, Lange was a big part of the tactical preparations for Copenhagen and he has a background as an assistant manager for a good while. How likely is it that Lange would be a rather big influence of our philosophy moving forward? Considering his background as well as what the Copenhagen Academy developed into under Lange, it’s very possible that Lange is going to have a lot to say when it comes to strategically developing our overall philosophy on the pitch (like we’ve seen for the past 20 years at Ajax and Barcelona). This whole concept of creating a clear identity from your senior squad to your U10 players is very, very big in Denmark and has been for 10-15 years now (FC Nordsjælland is one of the best at this in the world. It's crazy what they are doing). 

Apparently Purslow (or maybe one of the owners?) gave an interview Thursday to an English newspaper, where he said that part of the reason we went for Lange, was because of the team he helped build at Copenhagen. A team that consistently punched above its own weight class in European competitions. Apparently that was a big selling point for Lange, according to the podcast host. 

Danish fits.
They talked briefly about potential Danish fits. Nothing in-depth, because they don’t think Lange is going to go about Danish players just for the sake of it. They don’t think Thomas Delaney (Dortmund) is realistic, but they very much believe the rumor will pop up very soon. Then they mentioned Mathias Zanka as a potential 3^rd CB option. He’s got PL experience and should be able to come in very cheap. Again, they wouldn’t bet on it, but it’s a link they expect to see soon.

They mentioned Ståle Solbakken from Copenhagen as a name to maybe replace Dean if needed, but they wouldn’t bet on it. It would simply be too big of risk and gamble for Lange to really put his neck out for Solbakken like that. They then mentioned Thomas Frank. Again, they are very good friends and it was rumored Lange should have been an assistant for Frank a few years back. IMPORTANT NOTE: THEY DIDN’T THINK DS IS AT RISK, IT WAS SIMPLY THEM SPECULATING RANDOM NAMES KNOWING LISTENERS WOULD BE ASKING.

Edited August 2, 2020 by NPDK

[AntrimBlack]

4 hours ago, TRO said:

My Understanding of Board structures....is not ,No.

Purslow, is not the board he is only on it.

I am not Privvy to the Villa structure in detail, so I am only picking up stuff reported.

But I am clear in the definition, reporting directly to Purslow, is not the same as reporting directly to the board.

Everyone who reports directly to Purslow in line management will not attend Board meetings.....It seems to me, by whats being reported, Johan Lange will attend board meetings.....that suggests to me he has his own Department......They may share common interests in the welfare of the club, but that will be overseen in board meetings.

Thats my interpretation, from the limited information I have.

I almost get the impression the owners want to seperate the financial side of player transfers from the inner workings of the club and not get them all washed up together.....with a view to keep better stock and control of the transfer system.

I think Simon Jordan is right, when owners are distant from the day to day workings of the club, transparency is a key component for them to work with.

It could in theory work really well, under those circumstances.

From my personal knowledge of boards, when the statement says that Lange will report to the board, that board includes Purslow and the two owners. So all three guys will be kept in the loop at the same time. It really is that simple.

[Sam-AVFC]

Thanks @NPDK. A lot of effort to translate all of that and it's very appreciated. 

[sidcow]

I have to say this feels like an odd appointment. Certainly not sending my pulse racing. 

Feels like we are trying to uncover an unnoticed diamond of a sporting director as well as players. 

I wish him all the best but I was really hoping for someone with a bit more proven top level experience. 

[TrentVilla]

27 minutes ago, sidcow said:

I have to say this feels like an odd appointment. Certainly not sending my pulse racing. 

Feels like we are trying to uncover an unnoticed diamond of a sporting director as well as players. 

I wish him all the best but I was really hoping for someone with a bit more proven top level experience. 

I think it’s indicative of the approach they want to take.

If people think these guys are just because of their wealth and investment to date going to continue pumping money in and do some sort of Man City spending then they are going to be disappointed I think.

So I think this appointment was always going to be someone like this as opposed to the chap linked previously with Chelsea. I don’t think a “name” was ever particularly likely.

I think going for someone who has been successful at a lower end of the market and with less obvious targets was always likely and makes a lot of sense.

Edens has also on a couple of occasions spoken of what he believes to be the importance of statistical analysis and science in recruitment as opposed to the traditional eye for a player or contacts. Clearly this appointment is in keeping with that.

[Villarocker]

So, Thomas Frank was number two to Dean Smith but is close friends with the man who will get the players in for Dean Smith to coach and the same man was alleged to have been number two to Frank previously. Why not just get Thomas Frank to manage us then? I think if Smith gets off to a bad start they might just use Lange to get Frank in. 

[Villarocker]

Interestingly, I just took a look at Brentford's 32 man squad on Wiki. 7 of them are Danish. 

[sidcow]

45 minutes ago, TrentVilla said:

Edens has also on a couple of occasions spoken of what he believes to be the importance of statistical analysis and science in recruitment as opposed to the traditional eye for a player or contacts. Clearly this appointment is in keeping with that.

I think this worries me a little. 

I think football does not lend itself to statistical analysis as well as most other sports, in particular American sports. 

[sidcow]

20 minutes ago, Villarocker said:

Interestingly, I just took a look at Brentford's 32 man squad on Wiki. 7 of them are Danish. 

They must have quite a turnover of players. 

[TrentVilla]

8 minutes ago, sidcow said:

I think this worries me a little. 

I think football does not lend itself to statistical analysis as well as most other sports, in particular American sports. 

Seems to work well enough for Copenhagen and Brentford... I think it has a place but not in a Moneyball baseball way.

[nick76]

18 minutes ago, sidcow said:

I think this worries me a little. 

I think football does not lend itself to statistical analysis as well as most other sports, in particular American sports. 

I know what you mean but I also think stats really helps because so many times people think a player is great when stats don’t back that up or certain players are underestimated because they aren’t flashy but end up being major cogs in teams.

i think Callum Wilson is very overrated but has a lot of speculation/hype around him and teams like us and Spurs after him but stats don’t back it up.  On the other hand Iheanacho looks great on the stats but Leicester stats are poor without Vardy in and Iheanacho playing instead and my Leicester mates aren’t massive fans of him, so are stats overstating him.

It’s getting the balance right and I hope they find that balance.

[mikeyp102]

1 hour ago, sidcow said:

I think this worries me a little. 

I think football does not lend itself to statistical analysis as well as most other sports, in particular American sports. 

I'm pretty sure Liverpool use statistical analysis, seems to work for them ok. 

[GENTLEMAN]

1 hour ago, sidcow said:

I think this worries me a little. 

I think football does not lend itself to statistical analysis as well as most other sports, in particular American sports. 

Tis’ just a tool.

[LondonLax]

Surely there is no top flight team that doesn’t rely heavily on statistical analysis these days. It’s not some sort of secret only us message board fans have stumbled onto but hasn’t yet been discovered by the professional coaching and scouting staff at Premier League level.

[TRO]

6 hours ago, AntrimBlack said:

From my personal knowledge of boards, when the statement says that Lange will report to the board, that board includes Purslow and the two owners. So all three guys will be kept in the loop at the same time. It really is that simple.

I agree.