KentVillan Posted July 15, 2020 Share Posted July 15, 2020 I don’t know if anyone remembers the unfolding of the 2007/08 crisis particularly well anymore, but am I right in thinking it was about a year or so before things really started to hit home for ordinary folk? Just wondering if we’re watching a similar slow motion car crash at the moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonLax Posted July 15, 2020 Share Posted July 15, 2020 38 minutes ago, KentVillan said: I don’t know if anyone remembers the unfolding of the 2007/08 crisis particularly well anymore, but am I right in thinking it was about a year or so before things really started to hit home for ordinary folk? Just wondering if we’re watching a similar slow motion car crash at the moment. Here’s a handy window into how ordinary folks experienced the financial crisis in 2008. Interestingly, the crisis kicked off in the summer but wasn’t deemed worthy of a thread on here until end of November. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Follyfoot Posted July 17, 2020 VT Supporter Share Posted July 17, 2020 British airways scrapping their entire fleet of 747’s with immediate affect Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted July 17, 2020 Moderator Share Posted July 17, 2020 Johnson apparently is going to tell us to all get back to the office today. Firstly this appears to be a completely political decision as Valance and the like are advising against it. Johnson, will say this is to get the economy back on track so the likes of Costa (and of the course the Independent traders) can start making money and that may be a (very) small part of it but I can't help thinking this is because of property prices. What enforced home working has done is prove to lots of companies, that home working can be more productive and much more efficient and the staff like it too. Office spaces will be downsized and in a shrinking economy, office rental prices will only go in one direction and lead to a massive surplus, in time this will have a knock on effect on the rental market and then the housing market and all that is their chief concern. Business is likely to do what it always does, do what is best for its shareholders and that will be to ignore what the government wants. In this instance, what is best for the shareholders, is also better for the planet and in a lot of cases, better for peoples mental health and work life balance. It's one of those once the genie is out of the bottle situations 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post chrisp65 Posted July 17, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted July 17, 2020 30 minutes ago, bickster said: Johnson apparently is going to tell us to all get back to the office today. Firstly this appears to be a completely political decision as Valance and the like are advising against it. Johnson, will say this is to get the economy back on track so the likes of Costa (and of the course the Independent traders) can start making money and that may be a (very) small part of it but I can't help thinking this is because of property prices. What enforced home working has done is prove to lots of companies, that home working can be more productive and much more efficient and the staff like it too. Office spaces will be downsized and in a shrinking economy, office rental prices will only go in one direction and lead to a massive surplus, in time this will have a knock on effect on the rental market and then the housing market and all that is their chief concern. Business is likely to do what it always does, do what is best for its shareholders and that will be to ignore what the government wants. In this instance, what is best for the shareholders, is also better for the planet and in a lot of cases, better for peoples mental health and work life balance. It's one of those once the genie is out of the bottle situations A few months ago there was a chance we could start some remodelling. From UBI, to converting office space in to decent apartments by parks. To reducing our reliance on petrol to commute 30 miles ten times a week every week. To spending an extra 2 hours a day with our families and using zoom instead of spending £120 Billion on a train to London. Now, that appears to be exactly what we are trying to avoid. There is now a need to go back to what almost none of us were previously enjoying. We have a government who’s imagination has the optimum setting as ‘rat race’. 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bielesibub Posted July 17, 2020 Share Posted July 17, 2020 (edited) On 15/07/2020 at 20:09, KentVillan said: I don’t know if anyone remembers the unfolding of the 2007/08 crisis particularly well anymore, but am I right in thinking it was about a year or so before things really started to hit home for ordinary folk? Just wondering if we’re watching a similar slow motion car crash at the moment. I remember it, I had just quit a solid job at IBM to join a small consultancy for almost double the pay, for me the crunch seemed to hit like a tonne of bricks - I don't really remember it being a slow motion crash, it seemed to happen really quick. I do remember feeling really worried about my job after most of the work dried up, the company was lucky to have a couple of really solid clients, although the company did go bust after 12 months - hopefully nothing to do with me. I did make sure that I saved as much as I could while I was working for when the inevitable happened. I was quite lucky, I lost my job and then was picked for contract work a week later. I can't really comment on whats going on at the moment as I can't work anymore. Edited July 17, 2020 by bielesibub Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted July 17, 2020 Moderator Share Posted July 17, 2020 35 minutes ago, chrisp65 said: We have a government who’s imagination has the optimum setting as ‘rat race’. Spot on. The clue is in the name "Conservative". They want to conserve things the way they were. I've got some sympathy with the angle about getting people back to going into pubs and restaurants and entertainment venues and shops and all the rest. I mean for all the benefits that @bickster outlines, there are a hell of a lot of downsides for waiters, singers, shopkeepers and the myriad other workers who depend on footfall and so on. You can't just cast them aside. It's good that a lot of people are able to work from home and it looks like as Bicks says, it'll be here to stay for many, whatever the gov't says. But how the hell do we protect and help those who are stiffed by virus and the changes it's brought about? Especially if the economy is trashed. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted July 17, 2020 Share Posted July 17, 2020 Yes, in no way is there an easy fix here. But I’d prefer the mood music to be about trying to build something better, given this opportunity to think things through. But that patently isn’t what they want, they are aiming to get us back to late February 2020, not the balmy utopian summer of 2040. I don’t think we can transform an economy basically overnight, but even the most basic things, the talk months ago about people fixing their bikes, there is no way now I would cycle on the road outside my house. Way too busy with people scurrying around in their cars and vans and lorries. Which creates far more GDP than my bike would. But the opportunity to find some middle ground has all but gone. We’re even considering here a blanket reduction to 20mph in all town centres, a default of anything that was 30 dropping to 20 and just having 30mph as the exception not the rule. Instantly, the day that idea was voiced, a huge advertising campaign by Welsh Tories against it. Against reducing the speed of traffic past my house. Knee jerk against quality of life versus back to shitty normal. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sne Posted July 17, 2020 Share Posted July 17, 2020 Quote Super-rich call for higher taxes on wealthy to pay for Covid-19 recovery A group of 83 of the world’s richest people have called on governments to permanently increase taxes on them and other members of the wealthy elite to help pay for the economic recovery from the Covid-19 crisis. The super-rich members, including Ben and Jerry’s ice cream co-founder Jerry Greenfield and Disney heir Abigail Disney, called on “our governments to raise taxes on people like us. Immediately. Substantially. Permanently”. “As Covid-19 strikes the world, millionaires like us have a critical role to play in healing our world,” the millionaires said in a letter shared with the Guardian. “No, we are not the ones caring for the sick in intensive care wards. We are not driving the ambulances that will bring the ill to hospitals. We are not restocking grocery store shelves or delivering food door to door. “But we do have money, lots of it. Money that is desperately needed now and will continue to be needed in the years ahead, as our world recovers from this crisis.” The group warned that the economic impact of coronavirus crisis will “last for decades” and could “push half a billion more people into poverty”. Among those adding their names to the letter are Sir Stephen Tindall, the founder of the Warehouse Group and New Zealand’s second richest man with a $475m (£370m) fortune; the British screenwriter and director Richard Curtis; and the Irish venture capitalist John O’Farrell, who made millions investing in Silicon Valley tech companies. https://www.theguardian.com/news/2020/jul/13/super-rich-call-for-higher-taxes-on-wealthy-to-pay-for-covid-19-recovery?CMP=fb_gu&utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Facebook&fbclid=IwAR0rU2jbeCvXsDgiBxDFNkbvWLMt-nCpCT4XbaV-Aj6SO3uuorFGrsroxpI#Echobox=1594622343 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted July 17, 2020 Share Posted July 17, 2020 Haven't been for a few years, but The Deaf Institute was a great venue: 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted July 17, 2020 Moderator Share Posted July 17, 2020 27 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said: Haven't been for a few years, but The Deaf Institute was a great venue: Genuinely saddens me. Two of my favourite Manchester venues 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Follyfoot Posted July 17, 2020 VT Supporter Share Posted July 17, 2020 (edited) On 15/07/2020 at 20:09, KentVillan said: I don’t know if anyone remembers the unfolding of the 2007/08 crisis particularly well anymore, but am I right in thinking it was about a year or so before things really started to hit home for ordinary folk? Just wondering if we’re watching a similar slow motion car crash at the moment. Very well, I owned a mortgage brokerage with 65 staff, hit home very, very quickly and was a total car crash as you say. Even had to lay my sister and Dad off which went down well which leads to the points made above. Converted my outbuildings to an office suite for me the Mrs and two others, may not be turning over and making the millions as before but the quality of life is so much better, been able to properly watch my kids grow up which I would never have done. I'd take that over the Astons, trips to Vegas and box at the Villa etc any day of the week looking back now Edited July 17, 2020 by Follyfoot 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted July 17, 2020 Share Posted July 17, 2020 20 minutes ago, Follyfoot said: Very well, I owned a mortgage brokerage with 65 staff, hit home very, very quickly and was a total car crash as you say. Even had to lay my sister and Dad off which went down well which leads to the points made above. Converted my outbuildings to an office suite for me the Mrs and two others, may not be turning over and making the millions as before but the quality of life is so much better, been able to properly watch my kids grow up which I would never have done. I'd take that over the Astons, trips to Vegas and box at the Villa etc any day of the week looking back now I earned more money in 2008 than I do today. 2008, I’d have been either writing this in someone else’s office space overlooking the rear of St Paul’s Cathedral, or in my flat in Malta. It was a smallish flat so when the family came over for long weekends we’d book The Phoenicia in Valletta. No cooking or cleaning needed then. I’m now writing this with a view of my back garden and the bird feeders. Brilliant memories, glad I did it, no way would I swap back. I was killing myself to pay the bills that earning loads of money was generating. I suspect there may be a good few people going through a similar experience now, and a portion of them preferring the new life forced upon them. Which is a self fulfilling downward spiral when the whole system is reliant on us all perpetually buying more and more shit. Not even keeping up the same level of shit, the system requires more shit than last time they measured the shit. Let’s not even get in to our promises to reduce emissions etc.. and how that chimes in with the annual shit audit and GDP and lending rates etc.. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted July 17, 2020 Moderator Share Posted July 17, 2020 1 hour ago, HanoiVillan said: Haven't been for a few years, but The Deaf Institute was a great venue: Utter bummer. Gutted. Deaf Institute particularly. But both really good venues. I know Manchester has plenty, perhaps, compared to some towns, but...just sad. Fingers crossed the rest make it through this and that someone manages to take over and re-open those two. You worry that (I think) the people running them also run a few of the others, so they might be at risk too. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Follyfoot Posted July 17, 2020 VT Supporter Share Posted July 17, 2020 17 minutes ago, chrisp65 said: I earned more money in 2008 than I do today. 2008, I’d have been either writing this in someone else’s office space overlooking the rear of St Paul’s Cathedral, or in my flat in Malta. It was a smallish flat so when the family came over for long weekends we’d book The Phoenicia in Valletta. No cooking or cleaning needed then. I’m now writing this with a view of my back garden and the bird feeders. Brilliant memories, glad I did it, no way would I swap back. I was killing myself to pay the bills that earning loads of money was generating. I suspect there may be a good few people going through a similar experience now, and a portion of them preferring the new life forced upon them. Which is a self fulfilling downward spiral when the whole system is reliant on us all perpetually buying more and more shit. Not even keeping up the same level of shit, the system requires more shit than last time they measured the shit. Let’s not even get in to our promises to reduce emissions etc.. and how that chimes in with the annual shit audit and GDP and lending rates etc.. One thing that is a definite, you should live longer now. I know for sure I will, had all the trappings and habits shall we say that wealth throws at you whilst comparatively young, as stated, great to look back on and scratched the itches most people never have the chance to scratch but glad its all in the past. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amsterdam_Neil_D Posted July 17, 2020 Share Posted July 17, 2020 So the go back to work has started. I wonder how they can hope to even make this look attractive for even 1 day per week. Maybe they will do an advert on the TV "I mean, who actually needs or wants 2 hours extra sleep a day, a happy life, a pocket full of non spent travel money, no travel stress, no lateness to work, home early in 0.0 seconds, more time to do or see the things you want and extra money from no Starbucks type stop offs" Sounds super attractive, in the winter it sounds even better. Good luck with that. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted July 17, 2020 Share Posted July 17, 2020 Interesting that here, The First Minister has said he has no intention of recreating the 9:00am commuter rush in to The Senedd and that as such, he doesn’t want it recreated outside anyone else’s business either. So I think he might be looking for a point of difference over Westminster, even if it’s only in message delivery. Parking for a moment, the fact that a politician laughably thinks people start work at 9:00am, that he’s even thinking about blurring and diluting ‘rush hour’ is a really good thing. It’ll probably mean encouraging more blurry shifts and making rush hour slightly less bad but 90 minutes longer. But at least there was an aspiration to change it. Back in early March, if I wanted to be through the Bryn Glas tunnel before the hour long traffic jam, it meant getting there before 6:45. right now, I stay in my pj’s until 7 and then do zoom calls on the dot of 8:30. We are shaping up to three versions of the future: Tories: go back to what you were doing and we’ll try and build a relief road through the nature reserve within the next 10 years. Labour: go back to what you were doing and hopefully bosses will let some of you start work at 11 and finish at 7 Me: I’d quite like to work from home 3 days a week and if everyone else does that, no need for a relief road and no need to be getting home at 8 I do appreciate that my version basically crashes the economy as its currently set up. But in my system, every street would have a jolly tea lady that wheels up n down all day selling Chelsea buns and makes everyone sign a card for her at number 73 that had the baby. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted July 17, 2020 Share Posted July 17, 2020 33 minutes ago, Follyfoot said: One thing that is a definite, you should live longer now. I know for sure I will, had all the trappings and habits shall we say that wealth throws at you whilst comparatively young, as stated, great to look back on and scratched the itches most people never have the chance to scratch but glad its all in the past. There are new stresses, I hadn’t previously realised the magpies spend most of their time trying to prise the **** slates off my roof to get at the sparrow chicks. I’m spending about 20 minutes a day throwing gravel at my gable end. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Follyfoot Posted July 17, 2020 VT Supporter Share Posted July 17, 2020 Just now, chrisp65 said: There are new stresses, I hadn’t previously realised the magpies spend most of their time trying to prise the **** slates off my roof to get at the sparrow chicks. I’m spending about 20 minutes a day throwing gravel at my gable end. I hear you, there is some kind of bird that chirps constantly for what seems most of the day just outside my office window that even the cat is scared to death of (backs the cat off easily) Looking into buying an air gun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted July 17, 2020 Share Posted July 17, 2020 No easy solution. Either we carry on as we were and the economy completely implodes and people lose their jobs or we gamble and hope for the best. I am glad i am not PM because what is decided people wont be happy as there nk solution that suits everyone. The big winners out of this will be labour as they will win the next election by a landslide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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