Dodgyknees Posted July 18, 2020 Share Posted July 18, 2020 20 hours ago, chrisp65 said: I think you underestimate the power of a half price burger, Monday to Wednesday. They have 3 to 4 years to re write history. Old money is new money, lockdown started a week before lockdown started, it’s the French that have cost us jobs, not Brexit (so its a bloody good job we left when we did). They’re already looking at re visiting how many people actually died specifically because of covid with a view to get the numbers down. Then, we’ll have almost all media telling us ‘you think this is bad? Imagine if the socialists were in power’. Yep, proper 1984 stuff going on. People will fall for it all as well. They will forget what the Tories did in 2020, blame everything on Coronavirus and Brexit being bad cos the EU stuffed us, there will be a new Labour crisis created in around 2-3 years time, Boris will say “I got you through this”, the media won’t ask tough questions, they will blame the opposition and people will put a tick in the box for the fascist party. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post blandy Posted July 18, 2020 Moderator Popular Post Share Posted July 18, 2020 1 hour ago, chrisp65 said: There are different ways of getting in to a mess. You can do it because circumstances changed. You can do it because you tried something and bigger international forces conspired against you to make sure it failed. You can be well meaning, but wrong in execution or principle. Or you can set out to deceive people and make you and your rich chums richer. This is not a tory / labour debate. I don’t think Lib Dem voters are pricks, or Green Party voters, or WNP or a dozen others. There is one party that always always reverts to greed and spite. I agree with all of that. But Quote Again, nobody, absolutely nobody voted for Rees Mogg or Francois or May or Fox, Duncan Smith, Grayling, Bone because they wanted the world to be a fairer more equitable, caring place. I know some tory voters, and they're not all pricks. Some are. Some are lovely people. I'd never vote tory, I detest them, but to try and understand why people do... I mean if you talk about "fairness" your (and probably my) perception of fairness would be different to a Tory voter's perception of it. E.g. to simplify it, we'd ask how on earth can it be fair for the tories to help make the rich richer, when there's so many people desperately struggling. A tory voter might ask "how can it be fair to increase my taxes when I'm not remotely rich, and use that money to provide [free broadband to people who haven't got computers and don't want broadband/nationalise the water or rail or....]. it doesn't matter in this example whether we agree or disagree with my stupid examples, it's just to illustrate that perceptions are different. So I think the thing is that in order to get people to swap sides and vote for a different party to last time, the opposition has to provide something that is credibly positive. Sure, a government messing things up demonstrably helps the oppo' but it's not enough on its own. The oppo has to look like it has a credible and "fair" plan to appeal to enough people. Its leader has to look like he or she is a PM in waiting and their top team has to look like a capable bunch. Not nearly enough people felt Labour (last time) looked credible, had a PM in waiting as leader, had a decent top team, had a manifesto that people believed, had a stance on Brexit that was remotely credible. So for all the mess, and it's a monumental mess, the tories have and are creating they've been given a free rein because there's been no competent opposition (and that's being kind). It doesn't help that the media is more biased to the tories in terms of press and has been neutered and cowed in terms of broadcast, but that bias can shift leftwards to a degree. Starmer gets a much less negative press than Corbyn did, simply by being competent rather than incompetent. People's perceptions of Starmer now compared with Johnson are that Starmer is the better person to be PM. That's all through the media coverage of the pandemic and their relative performances, even though there's always a "pull together in a crisis" mood in any population. Getting back to economic crisis caused by the pandemic - it's clearly going to get a lot, lot worse over the next year or two and if Labour can look like they have a credible plan, while the tories flounder and mess things up, they have half a chance of turning round a massive defeat last time. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dodgyknees Posted July 18, 2020 Share Posted July 18, 2020 I’m not rich, but I’d take an extra tax hit If it meant better mental health services, better transport options, a greener society, more money for teaching, nurses, police and more. Tories: “why me” Socialists: “why should people suffer” 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted July 18, 2020 Share Posted July 18, 2020 (edited) Agree with all that @blandy. But again I would say it isn’t a straight tory / labour divide. There are other options, including not voting. I think there’s a world of difference between the perfectly legitimate thought that all the candidates are rubbish, and actively leaving the house to tick the tory box. This to me is a two pronged problem. Firstly the party system prevents decent independent candidates getting the local support network that could make an impact and counter the lazy journalism of stereotypes that just has funny Boris versus grumpy Corbyn nobbled at his front door with no other views considered seriously. Secondly, the majority of voters wouldn’t bother anyway, if a serious deep study of policies and track record was undertaken. Basically, we get the politicians we deserve, and right now almost every last one of them is a rocket polisher. Edited July 18, 2020 by chrisp65 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted July 18, 2020 Moderator Share Posted July 18, 2020 2 minutes ago, avfcDJ said: I’m not rich, but I’d take an extra tax hit If it meant better mental health services, better transport options, a greener society, more money for teaching, nurses, police and more. Tories: “why me” "Why me [and my family]" is a perfectly fair and reasonable question. If there's not a genuinely credible answer, then socialists will always lose. People value their own children's and family safety and future extremely highly. That will never change. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted July 18, 2020 Moderator Share Posted July 18, 2020 2 minutes ago, chrisp65 said: But again I would say it isn’t a straight tory / labour divide. There are other options, including not voting. It is at the moment (in England). But I agree with your post. Adding that the system (not just the party system, but the electoral system) is completely broken. I didn't vote in the last election. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dodgyknees Posted July 18, 2020 Share Posted July 18, 2020 2 minutes ago, blandy said: "Why me [and my family]" is a perfectly fair and reasonable question. If there's not a genuinely credible answer, then socialists will always lose. People value their own children's and family safety and future extremely highly. That will never change. They are deeply impacted by the cuts they are voting for, but don’t want to pay more as they don’t have much, so vote for those who make the cuts and then say they did it because they can’t afford much and have little, even though their vote creates the “system” where they have nothing. We have a system where the opposition get the blame and the media report this, so those who have nothing act like turkeys voting for Christmas even though things have got progressively worse since 2010, but because the system and the media tell them this is normal and don’t actually share the real news, people keep saying “why me” to a situation they helped manifest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted July 18, 2020 Share Posted July 18, 2020 Slight subject jump. I’ve been out shopping this morning, getting the nipper some kit for Uni. It was my first experience of wandering the town centre going to more than one place and I’d have to say as someone used to wearing the mask, I don’t see it encouraging people to go out ‘social shopping’. Walking around town in a hat, gloves and mask I got heated to the point they wouldn’t let me in the Apple Store, I failed the temperature test a couple of times. I’m ok with that, I’m used masks in my day job. I can imagine a huge number of people deciding not to bother. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted July 18, 2020 Moderator Share Posted July 18, 2020 Anyway this isn't the baby eating topic... Something else that businesses will almost certainly consider and if they haven't they are as stupid as Johnson is inept. Contact tracing. Want your entire office closed down for two weeks? Just wait until one of your staff tests positive. At best they'll all be working from home again.... I think we all know what the worst case scenario is. Also many companies have invested in new methods of working, I know we have, that isn't always instantly reversible. We can't just bring everybody back in and sit them all around the big horseshoe table again, the system they used to work on is gone, we've disabled it and sent them home to work on a completely different system (100% VOIP from 50%, totally different software, soft phones instead of physical and more), contracts with certain suppliers (like BT for example) have been cancelled, new contracts which are less cancelable have been signed To bring everyone back in would mean everyone using the equipment they are currently using at home all bunched in together in a massive room. The quickest way to do that would be to run them through Wifi, yep thats up to 40 staff running on wifi in one room, its probably technically possible but its also a logistical nightmare and would require further investment. The network cabling is still there but the servers have been repurposed to the new way of working... We'd have to be desperate to bring them back now 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted July 18, 2020 Moderator Share Posted July 18, 2020 10 minutes ago, chrisp65 said: Slight subject jump. I’ve been out shopping this morning, getting the nipper some kit for Uni. It was my first experience of wandering the town centre going to more than one place and I’d have to say as someone used to wearing the mask, I don’t see it encouraging people to go out ‘social shopping’. Walking around town in a hat, gloves and mask I got heated to the point they wouldn’t let me in the Apple Store, I failed the temperature test a couple of times. I’m ok with that, I’m used masks in my day job. I can imagine a huge number of people deciding not to bother. Me too. I know it's raining (or was) but there's an awful lot of empty (but open) barbers shops, cafe's and wotnot. Walked past spoons and a woman was asking another woman "do you have to give them your name and details" the answer was "if you're having a meal, yes" and that seemed to put off middle aged woman questioner. More people, perhaps wearing masks than normal. When I put mine on I was the same - with the waterproof coat and the rain I was sweltering. Came back home with some pies and some beer, so not all bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ferguson1 Posted July 18, 2020 Share Posted July 18, 2020 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dodgyknees Posted July 18, 2020 Share Posted July 18, 2020 4 minutes ago, ferguson1 said: Can you remove this photo of me please? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post chrisp65 Posted July 18, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted July 18, 2020 Ma ma ma ma ma we’re all Dave Hill now... 1 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vive_La_Villa Posted July 18, 2020 Share Posted July 18, 2020 (edited) 2 hours ago, blandy said: "Why me [and my family]" is a perfectly fair and reasonable question. If there's not a genuinely credible answer, then socialists will always lose. People value their own children's and family safety and future extremely highly. That will never change. I love your posts. You’re able to write everything Im thinking but in an articulate way. Whenever I try I always mess it up! 2 hours ago, chrisp65 said: Walking around town in a hat, gloves and mask I got heated to the point they wouldn’t let me in the Apple Store, I failed the temperature test a couple of times. I’m ok with that, I’m used masks in my day job. I can imagine a huge number of people deciding not to bother. How does this work? Somebody at the door taking temperatures? Is this for all major stores? since lockdown the only shop I’ve entered is my local offie. Edited July 18, 2020 by Vive_La_Villa 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted July 18, 2020 Author Share Posted July 18, 2020 (edited) With shops not allowed to use air con the compulsory mask thing will make it very uncomfortable in there for staff and customers alike. I predict a government U-turn when retail numbers drop. Edited July 18, 2020 by Genie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted July 18, 2020 Share Posted July 18, 2020 20 minutes ago, Vive_La_Villa said: How does this work? Somebody at the door taking temperatures? Is this for all major stores? Different for different stores. Some stores just keeping a check on numbers inside, some insisting on masks. Apple: more staff outside the store than inside. Walk up, greeted and asked what we were there for and had we booked a time slot. Wanted to buy something so we were taken to the side to go in to the shop not just have questions answered outside. Nobody was getting in just for a browse. They had a station where they had sanitiser, masks and temperature guns. We already had our own gel and masks and all that so we just had to have temp taken. I failed the temp test first couple of times, literally hot from a march across town in a hat, mask and coat. Masks on in shop, everything we wanted to see was cleaned in front of us before we touched it and cleaned again when we finished with it, including the pay card machine. Fairly confident it was more sterile than having surgery. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted July 18, 2020 Author Share Posted July 18, 2020 Why were you wearing a hat @chrisp65? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vive_La_Villa Posted July 18, 2020 Share Posted July 18, 2020 4 minutes ago, chrisp65 said: Different for different stores. Some stores just keeping a check on numbers inside, some insisting on masks. Apple: more staff outside the store than inside. Walk up, greeted and asked what we were there for and had we booked a time slot. Wanted to buy something so we were taken to the side to go in to the shop not just have questions answered outside. Nobody was getting in just for a browse. They had a station where they had sanitiser, masks and temperature guns. We already had our own gel and masks and all that so we just had to have temp taken. I failed the temp test first couple of times, literally hot from a march across town in a hat, mask and coat. Masks on in shop, everything we wanted to see was cleaned in front of us before we touched it and cleaned again when we finished with it, including the pay card machine. Fairly confident it was more sterile than having surgery. Crazy times! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted July 18, 2020 Share Posted July 18, 2020 2 minutes ago, Genie said: Why were you wearing a hat @chrisp65? Aesthetics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xela Posted July 18, 2020 Share Posted July 18, 2020 My Dad went into Brum city centre last week to get his haircut... he still uses the hairdressers in House of Fraser, like he used to when he worked in the City Centre. He said its the quietest he's ever seen Birmingham and he's been going in since he was a kid in the 60's. Like a ghost town is what he said The city centres and high streets are dead. No wonder Boris is trying to cajole people into going back into the workplace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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