chrisp65 Posted July 8, 2020 Share Posted July 8, 2020 17 minutes ago, Genie said: This is classic VT, its the if I lived in this street I can only go to the park but the next street can drive to lands end if they want. It will suit some people's situations which is good for them. For others it'll make no difference. Doesn't mean its a waste of time. Nope, I dispute that. I’m questioning that there must be a fairly defined pot of money and I’m not sure what losing the tax revenue from stamp duty does when we’re looking at getting best bangs for your buck. £5k discount on a quarter of a million pound house, is the market really that elastic? Strikes me as a shallow gesture. Nothing to do with whether I personally will benefit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted July 8, 2020 Author Share Posted July 8, 2020 2 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said: The data is clear that the average age of first-time buyers is getting older Veering off topic but I suspect that government intervention to create a collapse of the market to get younger people buying rather than renting is worse for the economy all things considered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted July 8, 2020 Author Share Posted July 8, 2020 2 minutes ago, chrisp65 said: Nope, I dispute that. I’m questioning that there must be a fairly defined pot of money and I’m not sure what losing the tax revenue from stamp duty does when we’re looking at getting best bangs for your buck. £5k discount on a quarter of a million pound house, is the market really that elastic? Strikes me as a shallow gesture. Nothing to do with whether I personally will benefit. I mentioned in a slightly later post, it’s not about the £5k, it’s about keeping the wheels turning on the industry and several other linked industries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted July 8, 2020 Share Posted July 8, 2020 Hmmm, we’re in a loop here. I guess I’ve just got a lot less rosey opinion on how many more people will buy a house because of £5k. I guess we get to the end of the year and see how many extra houses were built and argue over how many of them were due to a stamp duty holiday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted July 8, 2020 Author Share Posted July 8, 2020 Hopefully the Chancellor will share his workings out at some point to show why he predicts its a good thing. I would imagine a lot of people linked to the housing market are delighted at the idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted July 8, 2020 Share Posted July 8, 2020 23 minutes ago, Genie said: Maybe its a good idea then if they're all doing it for decades Simply because governments default to a standard response to a particular crisis or event, and have done for a significant period, is a very silly reason indeed to claim that this supports the notion that these responses or policies are therefore a good idea. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted July 8, 2020 Share Posted July 8, 2020 11 minutes ago, chrisp65 said: I guess we get to the end of the year and see how many extra houses were built and argue over how many of them were due to a stamp duty holiday. Indeed. And we could do that with the last scheme that a government came up with in this area, or the one before that, or the one before that, ad inf. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted July 8, 2020 Share Posted July 8, 2020 7 minutes ago, Genie said: Hopefully the Chancellor will share his workings out at some point to show why he predicts its a good thing. I would imagine a lot of people linked to the housing market are delighted at the idea. Well, my job is linked to construction and the housing market in a big way. Perhaps I’ll be lucky and be very wrong. Almost the opposite of a myopic world view. From a couple of schemes I’m currently involved in, I’ll be able to tell you pretty quickly if it leads to more housing stock being developed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted July 8, 2020 VT Supporter Share Posted July 8, 2020 (edited) 26 minutes ago, chrisp65 said: Nope, I dispute that. I’m questioning that there must be a fairly defined pot of money and I’m not sure what losing the tax revenue from stamp duty does when we’re looking at getting best bangs for your buck. £5k discount on a quarter of a million pound house, is the market really that elastic? Strikes me as a shallow gesture. Nothing to do with whether I personally will benefit. Well I think a lot of people looking to buy a house, myself included, put things on hold when Covid hit because of financial uncertainty both personally and with the economy, and also the potential for house prices to fall as a result of that meant it didn't seem like the best time to buy even if you could still afford to. But now you're effectively being told if you go and buy that house you were thinking of buying 4 months ago you'll save 5 grand, 7 grand, 10 grand whatever. I know it doesn't quite work as simply as that. But it's a good incentive for people to start buying again. It's certainly got me thinking that it might be time to start looking again. At the very least waiting for 4 months to buy will have saved me 10 grand... or rather the 10 grand I had set aside (mentally) for paying stamp duty can now be spent on the deposit or a new kitchen or whatever. It's not as simple as saying £5k of a £250k house is a tiny amount. It's not like it's coming off your mortgage. You have to pay it up front. So it's £5k off your up front fees for buying the house. So if you're buying a £250k house with a 10% deposit, you're paying £30k up front (25k deposit, 5k stamp duty) plus moving fees etc obviously Now you only have to pay the deposit up front. £5k saving on £30k is far more attractive. Edited July 8, 2020 by Stevo985 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted July 8, 2020 Share Posted July 8, 2020 Look, hopefully I’m wrong and £10k off a £400,000 house triggers the market to a noticeable measurable extent. I’d certainly benefit from that, so here’s hoping somebody can quote my pessimism back at me in 6 months time with proof of the benefit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted July 8, 2020 Author Share Posted July 8, 2020 8 minutes ago, chrisp65 said: I’ll be able to tell you pretty quickly if it leads to more housing stock being developed. Cash flow is the big killer, especially for the big housing builders. If it keeps people pushing money through the system they can ride it out better and stops them going under. Most people buying a new house have to sell their current older house. I expect it’ll keep things ticking over rather than increase stocks, maybe even less stock... but more than if they were allowed to tank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted July 8, 2020 Author Share Posted July 8, 2020 1 minute ago, chrisp65 said: Look, hopefully I’m wrong and £10k off a £400,000 house triggers the market to a noticeable measurable extent. I’d certainly benefit from that, so here’s hoping somebody can quote my pessimism back at me in 6 months time with proof of the benefit. I think “I told you so” will be tricky because success will probably look like less businesses going bankrupt, rather than a surge of profits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted July 8, 2020 Share Posted July 8, 2020 If it was cash flow, the government could commission urgently needed houses or underwrite builders to keep building. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KenjiOgiwara Posted July 8, 2020 Share Posted July 8, 2020 (edited) How's the interest rates with you guys now? Are people on average doing fixed or adjustable? Like most Norwegian I've got an adjustable rate, but I think that's a deviation compared to most of the world. I was close to going fixed interest earlier in the year, even got an offer on 2,5% for 10 years, but ended up not completing the contract. Now I've got an offer of 10 years 2,0% fixed. I think I might actually accept that offer. The risk reward seems very favourable. Edited July 8, 2020 by KenjiOgiwara Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted July 8, 2020 Share Posted July 8, 2020 Just now, Genie said: I think “I told you so” will be tricky because success will probably look like less businesses going bankrupt, rather than a surge of profits. Are you suggesting they’ll have no metric to work out if giving money to people that can already afford six figure mortgages is of benefit to the country? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tom_avfc Posted July 8, 2020 Share Posted July 8, 2020 9 minutes ago, Stevo985 said: Well I think a lot of people looking to buy a house, myself included, put things on hold when Covid hit because of financial uncertainty both personally and with the economy, and also the potential for house prices to fall as a result of that meant it didn't seem like the best time to buy even if you could still afford to. But now you're effectively being told if you go and buy that house you were thinking of buying 4 months ago you'll save 5 grand, 7 grand, 10 grand whatever. I know it doesn't quite work as simply as that. But it's a good incentive for people to start buying again. It's certainly got me thinking that it might be time to start looking again. At the very least waiting for 4 months to buy will have saved me 10 grand... or rather the 10 grand I had set aside (mentally) for paying stamp duty can now be spent on the deposit or a new kitchen or whatever. It's not as simple as saying £5k of a £250k house is a tiny amount. It's not like it's coming off your mortgage. You have to pay it up front. So it's £5k off your up front fees for buying the house. So if you're buying a £250k house with a 10% deposit, you're paying £30k up front (25k deposit, 5k stamp duty) plus moving fees etc obviously Now you only have to pay the deposit up front. £5k saving on £30k is far more attractive. I think this is a decent point but it doesn't take into account that the house is probably going to cost you more as a result of this. I'm not convinced that the £10k that you're saving in stamp duty isn't going to be added on to the price of the house that's being sold. If you incentivise a lot of people to start looking to buy a house again then you're going to push up the price of the houses. This again makes it more difficult for those not on the property market to get on it. Someone earlier said that people linked to the housing market will be happy. I'm sure some will but there's also going to be a lot of people sat in expensive properties that are looking on delighted with this policy. I'm not convinced that this measure targets the people that need money the most is my basic point I suppose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted July 8, 2020 Author Share Posted July 8, 2020 (edited) 11 minutes ago, chrisp65 said: Are you suggesting they’ll have no metric to work out if giving money to people that can already afford six figure mortgages is of benefit to the country? You said a post or 2 ago we’re going round in circles then again miss the point I made several times. It will stimulate the market, the people moving are just 1 part of that. All the interconnected industries that rely on people buying, selling and moving should benefit too. Many business that may otherwise go bust, or at least make staff redundant now have a lifeline. Some will still go under I expect. People like Steve Benson in this forum is an example of someone who may now buy where he otherwise would not. My mother in law took her house off the market a month or so ago as her sale fell through has decided to go again. Edited July 8, 2020 by Genie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted July 8, 2020 Share Posted July 8, 2020 2 hours ago, Stevo985 said: Great. I wasn't sure if the "holiday" part referred to just not having to pay it until later. Like pausing it. I should be buying before then so it's good news for me personally From what i understand you dont pay any stamp duty for any property thats less than 500k. Im in process of buying a property so this is fantastic news. The only sticking point is what happens if the property is worth more than 500k? Do you pay the normal rates or a reduced rate for example if your buying a property for 600k do you pay normal rate on that extra 100k or reduced percentage? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted July 8, 2020 Share Posted July 8, 2020 3 minutes ago, Genie said: You said a post or 2 ago we’re going round in circles then again miss the point I made several times. It will stimulate the market, the people moving are just 1 part of that. All the interconnected industries that rely on people buying, selling and moving should benefit too. Many business that may otherwise go bust now have a lifeline. Some will still go under I expect. People like Steve Benson in this forum is an example of someone who may now buy where he otherwise would not. My mother in law took her house off the market a month or so ago as her sale fell through has decided to go again. I’ll await the uptick in house building and the spending on the High Street of all those saved £5k’s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted July 8, 2020 Author Share Posted July 8, 2020 6 minutes ago, chrisp65 said: I’ll await the uptick in house building and the spending on the High Street of all those saved £5k’s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts