est1874 Posted July 22, 2022 Share Posted July 22, 2022 5 minutes ago, sir_gary_cahill said: Isn’t he? He was performing extremely well for England u19s this Summer I suppose it's all subjective, but I would say no. I would put Scarlett ahead of him, maybe Alfie Devine (who is only 17 actually), Bynoe-Gittens has huge quality and potential for his age too. He's certainly by no means "clear" as the children say these days. Our own A. Ramsey isn't far from that mix either, I don't see him crying for a move to Barca to Dortmund. Tbh I'm tired of this debate now. If he wants to stay he'll stay, but it looks to be far from his mind. We've given him his Premier League debut, trusted him, offered him decent money, but he's got stars in his eyes now. I find that very hard to respect or support, and I do not wish him well elsewhere. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted July 22, 2022 Share Posted July 22, 2022 19 minutes ago, est1874 said: But sadly for him he's nowhere near the best 18 year old in the country. He is though 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted July 22, 2022 Share Posted July 22, 2022 Let's ignore everything we just saw at the euro u19s for the sake of an argument Since 29th June he is the best English 18 year old footballer 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted July 22, 2022 Share Posted July 22, 2022 5 minutes ago, villa4europe said: Let's ignore everything we just saw at the euro u19s for the sake of an argument Since 29th June he is the best English 18 year old footballer Bellingham doesnt play in England so wouldnt have included him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sir_gary_cahill Posted July 22, 2022 Share Posted July 22, 2022 16 minutes ago, est1874 said: I suppose it's all subjective, but I would say no. I would put Scarlett ahead of him, maybe Alfie Devine (who is only 17 actually), Bynoe-Gittens has huge quality and potential for his age too. He's certainly by no means "clear" as the children say these days. Our own A. Ramsey isn't far from that mix either, I don't see him crying for a move to Barca to Dortmund. Tbh I'm tired of this debate now. If he wants to stay he'll stay, but it looks to be far from his mind. We've given him his Premier League debut, trusted him, offered him decent money, but he's got stars in his eyes now. I find that very hard to respect or support, and I do not wish him well elsewhere. Where has Chukwuemeka cried for a move to Barca or Dortmund? I must’ve missed that The last paragraph is a bit harsh I think 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villabromsgrove Posted July 22, 2022 Share Posted July 22, 2022 Practically everyone has to 'earn' a living, and more money is earned by moving up the job ladder based on performance and experience. Carney is a good young developing footballer. He looks as though he could go a long way but at eighteen that's not proven, and he still has a lot of improvement to make in certain areas. He's not yet good enough to be a starter in the Villa first eleven on a regular basis. Five/ten thousand per week is more than enough for a teenager who is no more than a squad player currently and probably still living at home. He and his advisors appear to be demanding wages and playing time that he hasn't yet earned. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarryOnVilla Posted July 22, 2022 Share Posted July 22, 2022 (edited) The real facts we know about this situation is what Stevie G stated, “Carney hasn’t signed a new contract”. This doesn’t mean he’s rejected Villa’s offer, just not signed it, as yet. All the press noise so far is basically a whole heap of teams are (and this is the key word) interested in him. They’re not bidding, not placing offers, or even “preparing to place an offer” As things stand, I see no evidence Carney has rejected Villa, or even dislikes the club… I just see it as, him and his church are shopping around, seeing what else is out there… just options to weigh up, including Villa’s offer. But of course, Villa are in a rush for him to make his mind up. the fans share the desire for him to make his mind up. As we wait, we chat, we fall for the gossip and the tweets and we grow in frustration and resentment and we turn on a kid who has remained professionally been silent and basically is weighing up his options. If he doesn’t sign by the end of the window, we sell. Nothing complicated about that. If that does happen, I wish him all the best and and he’ll get the uncle Phill gif like everyone else. Edited July 22, 2022 by CarryOnVilla Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duke313 Posted July 22, 2022 Share Posted July 22, 2022 5 minutes ago, CarryOnVilla said: The real facts we know about this situation is what Stevie G stated, “Carney hasn’t signed a new contract”. This doesn’t mean he’s rejected Villa’s offer, just not signed it, as yet. All the press noise so far is basically a whole heap of teams are (and this is the key word) interested in him. They’re not bidding, not placing offers, or even “preparing to place an offer” As things stand, I see no evidence Carney has rejected Villa, or even dislikes the club… I just see it as, him and his church are shopping around, seeing what else is out there… just options to weigh up, including Villa’s offer. But of course, Villa are in a rush for him to make his mind up. the fans share the desire for him to make his mind up. As we wait, we chat, we fall for the gossip and the tweets and we grow in frustration and resentment and we turn on a kid who has remained professionally been silent and basically is weighing up his options. If he doesn’t sign by the end of the window, we sell. Nothing complicated about that. If that does happen, I wish him all the best and and he’ll get the uncle Phill gif like everyone else. As you say, he may not have rejected the offer, but it's been on the table for 9 months which tells us he has no intentions of signing it if he can get something better, meaning he does not want to be here, the contract offer should be withdrawn if that's the case. Also if he hasn't signed by the end of the transfer window, we won't be able to sell him, as he is free to speak to clubs in January, so they aren't going to pay a fee for him when they can sign him for free. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david-avfc Posted July 22, 2022 Share Posted July 22, 2022 39 minutes ago, sir_gary_cahill said: Isn’t he? He was performing extremely well for England u19s this Summer There’s no doubt he’s considered to be up there as the best in the current youth categories but it’s not like he’s bursting down the doors of the senior set up. Not saying that there’s a huge number of English players ahead of him but the genuine best of the best over the years are often way ahead of the curve at that age. Bellingham for example is already a regular in the main England squad and has been a first choice at club level for a few seasons now - that’s what a generational talent looks like. He could still become a great player, or he could be a total dud but it’s not like he’s out there doing it right now, he’s still only a youth player 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarryOnVilla Posted July 22, 2022 Share Posted July 22, 2022 1 minute ago, duke313 said: As you say, he may not have rejected the offer, but it's been on the table for 9 months which tells us he has no intentions of signing it if he can get something better, meaning he does not want to be here, the contract offer should be withdrawn if that's the case. Also if he hasn't signed by the end of the transfer window, we won't be able to sell him, as he is free to speak to clubs in January, so they aren't going to pay a fee for him when they can sign him for free. Many players had contracts waiting for ages, Smith Rowe for Arse last season, pops to mind first. And like Smith Rowe, Carney is shopping around splitting hairs by the definition of the “the end”. Jeeze come on, you know what I meant. If he don’t sign “near to” the end of the window, we sell to these so called interested clubs. if they want him so bad, they pay now rather than risk losing him to another club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeanVilla Posted July 22, 2022 Share Posted July 22, 2022 33 minutes ago, Zatman said: He is though Harvey Elliot is now 19 but only 6 months difference in age. Elliot is miles ahead of him. Not even close 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david-avfc Posted July 22, 2022 Share Posted July 22, 2022 1 minute ago, CarryOnVilla said: Many players had contracts waiting for ages, Smith Rowe for Arse last season, pops to mind first. And like Smith Rowe, Carney is shopping around splitting hairs by the definition of the “the end”. Jeeze come on, you know what I meant. If he don’t sign “near to” the end of the window, we sell to these so called interested clubs. if they want him so bad, they pay now rather than risk losing him to another club. At what point does deliberately not saying “yes” start to mean “no” I think that point was probably several months ago If he does sign, then great, but it seems like if that happens it’s because he’s changed his mind, not because it was always his first choice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duke313 Posted July 22, 2022 Share Posted July 22, 2022 1 minute ago, david-avfc said: At what point does deliberately not saying “yes” start to mean “no” I think that point was probably several months ago If he does sign, then great, but it seems like if that happens it’s because he’s changed his mind, not because it was always his first choice Exactly. The club should have had a time limit on when the contract is still available, and withdrawn if he hasn't signed. Then he can shop about with no fall back offer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sir_gary_cahill Posted July 22, 2022 Share Posted July 22, 2022 4 minutes ago, david-avfc said: There’s no doubt he’s considered to be up there as the best in the current youth categories but it’s not like he’s bursting down the doors of the senior set up. Not saying that there’s a huge number of English players ahead of him but the genuine best of the best over the years are often way ahead of the curve at that age. Bellingham for example is already a regular in the main England squad and has been a first choice at club level for a few seasons now - that’s what a generational talent looks like. He could still become a great player, or he could be a total dud but it’s not like he’s out there doing it right now, he’s still only a youth player Different players develop at different rates Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barry'sboots Posted July 22, 2022 Share Posted July 22, 2022 2 minutes ago, villabromsgrove said: Practically everyone has to 'earn' a living, and more money is earned by moving up the job ladder based on performance and experience. Carney is a good young developing footballer. He looks as though he could go a long way but at eighteen that's not proven, and he still has a lot of improvement to make in certain areas. He's not yet good enough to be a starter in the Villa first eleven on a regular basis. Five/ten thousand per week is more than enough for a teenager who is no more than a squad player currently and probably still living at home. He and his advisors appear to be demanding wages and playing time that he hasn't yet earned. Agreed but you can't knock them for asking - tbf to them the kid has probably put £10k on his salary since the end of the season with his Euro's performance. The kid hasn't said anything yet as far as I can see (lots of media speculation) he's just not re-committed. We're clearly not privy to what is being asked for (salary or playing time) but I doubt there are many PL teams that are better positioned at the minute to give him the optimal combination of these two things. The Big 6 might be able to pay more BUT he won't see game time and those that might give him more "guaranteed" game time may do so in a struggling environment and will probably be less able to pay wages we can. Hopefully, he'll realise that the grass is not always greener over the coming months. Equally, whilst he looks strong on the ball - glides in possession and gets in to good areas - from what I have seen he has a lot of development to be done off the ball/out of possession. He is a long way from the finished article and the playing time and monetary demands speculated in the press. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarryOnVilla Posted July 22, 2022 Share Posted July 22, 2022 (edited) 5 minutes ago, david-avfc said: At what point does deliberately not saying “yes” start to mean “no” I think that point was probably several months ago If he does sign, then great, but it seems like if that happens it’s because he’s changed his mind, not because it was always his first choice That point is when he ever signs or he’s sold, what ever comes first. One will happen this window so what if it’s his first choice or not, he hasn’t made it yet… so it’s about the right choice. Villa could be it. Edited July 22, 2022 by CarryOnVilla Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villanmac Posted July 22, 2022 Share Posted July 22, 2022 26 minutes ago, CarryOnVilla said: The real facts we know about this situation is what Stevie G stated, “Carney hasn’t signed a new contract”. This doesn’t mean he’s rejected Villa’s offer, just not signed it, as yet. All the press noise so far is basically a whole heap of teams are (and this is the key word) interested in him. They’re not bidding, not placing offers, or even “preparing to place an offer” As things stand, I see no evidence Carney has rejected Villa, or even dislikes the club… I just see it as, him and his church are shopping around, seeing what else is out there… just options to weigh up, including Villa’s offer. But of course, Villa are in a rush for him to make his mind up. the fans share the desire for him to make his mind up. As we wait, we chat, we fall for the gossip and the tweets and we grow in frustration and resentment and we turn on a kid who has remained professionally been silent and basically is weighing up his options. If he doesn’t sign by the end of the window, we sell. Nothing complicated about that. If that does happen, I wish him all the best and and he’ll get the uncle Phill gif like everyone else. If you're missing the first team pre season training youre already gone. He's not signing now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villabromsgrove Posted July 22, 2022 Share Posted July 22, 2022 A major consideration for NSWE and Purslow has to be the knock on effect of giving an inflated "unearned" contract to CC, or even a verbal guarantee of increased playing time. Playing time has to be earned, not demanded. It seems that our owners are doing exactly what they have to do to prevent other young player's Agents/Parents rocking the Academy boat. Losing CC because his demands haven't been met or he thinks the grass is greener elsewhere, would be a small price to pay for the smooth and hopefully profitable running of the Academy. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel Posted July 22, 2022 VT Supporter Share Posted July 22, 2022 31 minutes ago, CarryOnVilla said: The real facts we know about this situation is what Stevie G stated, “Carney hasn’t signed a new contract”. This doesn’t mean he’s rejected Villa’s offer, just not signed it, as yet. All the press noise so far is basically a whole heap of teams are (and this is the key word) interested in him. They’re not bidding, not placing offers, or even “preparing to place an offer” As things stand, I see no evidence Carney has rejected Villa, or even dislikes the club… I just see it as, him and his church are shopping around, seeing what else is out there… just options to weigh up, including Villa’s offer. The real facts are that the only people who really know whats going on have decided its best to ostracise Carney from the squad. They simply wouldnt do that except if everything else they have tried isnt working. You are right that he hasnt rejected us openly, but we can all read between the lines here. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarryOnVilla Posted July 22, 2022 Share Posted July 22, 2022 6 minutes ago, villanmac said: If you're missing the first team pre season training youre already gone. He's not signing now. You probably right, but he’s still at the club and things could change. Like these “interested” clubs offering him a worse deal than Villa. it’s not likely, but we have to wait a little longer, to find out if he’s going or staying. It will be made 100% clear at the end of the window Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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