Generic Virus Thread

[sidcow]

14 minutes ago, mjmooney said:

Living in a democratic society does not mean everybody can just do what they want. 

Are you telling me I shouldn't have murdered that guy who banged his car door into mine? You seriously saying that? I do what I want sunshine, it's a free country. 

[richp999]

8 minutes ago, bickster said:

It wasn't worthy of a reply. Emotive questions about putting your own children into an imaginary scenario that currently is not going to happen are really not worth answering.

And as evidence of it not being a likely scenario, I give you your very first statement. You are choosing not to have the booster.

 

I most probably will have the booster at some point, just not now.

I'm not sure where you live, but this situation re. kids very much has been an event around here.  We were asked to give consent, and also made aware that it could be carried out even if we refused.  Maybe this did not happen where you are ?

Its very much not an imaginary scenario.

Anyway they backed down after pressure from parents, but i'm afraid you're not seeing the full picture if you genuinely don't believe this ever happened.

[Xela]

Just now, sidcow said:

Are you telling me I shouldn't have murdered that guy who banged his car door into mine? 

To be honest... I think its a fair response.

"Tough on crime, tough on the causes of crime"

[bickster]

Just now, richp999 said:

We were asked to give consent, and also made aware that it could be carried out even if we refused.

Is this in the UK?
I'd contact the Police if it was

[a m ole]

22 minutes ago, richp999 said:

So tell me, what was the result of your antibody test, the one you did before you had your booster ? The one that would tell you what your immunity level was, which you surely did before knowing you needed this booster right now.

I haven’t had a booster. The boosters are recommended based on scientific knowledge. It’s that amount of time because that’s when the science recommends it. Do you not like science?

[richp999]

13 minutes ago, sidcow said:

Thanks for that somewhat backhanded compliment. Part of, a huge part of independent thinking is to establish which are likely to be correct facts and which are likely to be incorrect facts.  So asking for your medical qualifications is a pretty fundamental question to ask if I'm to give serious thought to your claim that vaccines still have strong efficacy and boosters are not needed. You gotta help me out on that. 

I'm kind of loath to ignore what pretty much every noted scientist is saying unless I think there maybe some factual basis in what yiu say. 

And the problem is, when you come out and say stuff like that, like it or not you WILL be applying soft influence over others.  Your comment will be one other little factoid someone will absorb when making a deadly serious decision. Unfortunately that type of person is likely to be someone who doesn't apply critical thinking and is easily influenced. 

Fair enough. You are correct there. Someone posted and asked people's feelings on here, an i'm very angry after tonight's announcements. After the government's reaction to covid ending my career last year, i'm not too happy with their response to it all.   And yes i know many people have had it a lot lot worse than losing their jobs.. I know a few of them too.

But I repeat I don't look to influence *anyone* , people should make up their own minds, but I understand what you are saying.  

[sidcow]

What's hilarious is people talking about Boris being an absolute clown, not to trust the Government etc etc.  Its funny because if the actual serious scientists who genuinely understand what's going on and what needs to actually get done to properly deal with it were in charge, the restrictions and requirements would likely be a hell of a lot more significant. 

It's the clowns who are backing your own point of view and obstructing the scientists in what they would actually like to see happen. 

Jokes. 

Edited December 8, 2021 by sidcow

[richp999]

2 minutes ago, a m ole said:

I haven’t had a booster. The boosters are recommended based on scientific knowledge. It’s that amount of time because that’s when the science recommends it. Do you not like science?

I love science.  It has to be the right science though 

[tom_avfc]

29 minutes ago, richp999 said:

 

I most probably will have the booster at some point, just not now.

I'm not sure where you live, but this situation re. kids very much has been an event around here.  We were asked to give consent, and also made aware that it could be carried out even if we refused.  Maybe this did not happen where you are ?

Its very much not an imaginary scenario.

Anyway they backed down after pressure from parents, but i'm afraid you're not seeing the full picture if you genuinely don't believe this ever happened.

This reads like something that didn’t happen to be honest. If it did happen I’d like to think there’d be more than pressure from parents as it would be completely unlawful.

Choosing to have the booster jab but not at the recommended point in time also seems a pretty odd decision to make. I’d rather trust the experts than just pluck a date out of thin air when I reckon I need another dose.

[a-k]

37 minutes ago, Xela said:

Correct me if I'm wrong here... but the vaccine doesn't stop you getting covid does it? It just minimises the effect, meaning its no worse, potentially, than a cold? Plenty of people in this thread have had covid, post vaccines. If so, why does it matter if someone else doesn't want the jab? It's their own choice/risk surely? Or am I looking at it too simplistically?

It does reduce the chance of you getting infected. It's not 100% protection against any infection, but still a substantial percentage. Then, on top of that, very strong protection against serious illness. Again, not 100% protection against hospitalizations and death, but in the 90%s. So, less people getting infected, and those that do get infected are generally able to ward off the disease without major complications.

You are correct that in simple terms it's someone's own choice/risk if they stay unvaccinated. However, when hospitals are filling up and overcapacity because of unvaccinated patients, as has happened in many places in the world, it absolutely does matter. Need cancer treatment? Sorry, doctors busy with unvaccinated covid patients. Need day or overnight surgery? Sorry, all the beds are full of unvaccinated covid patients. Slip and fall down the stairs and break a hip? Good luck.

The vaccine is a major player in making life "normal" again, by turning a severe disease into a "cold" for most people. Two years ago, people were in the hospital with pneumonia, flu, etc., but they were not overloading the system. The vaccine is there to first and foremost protect yourself, and secondly to protect others: directly, by reducing the R0 ("infectivity"), and indirectly, by reducing your chance of clogging up the system so someone else can get hospital treatment.

[tom_avfc]

Just now, a-k said:

It does reduce the chance of you getting infected. It's not 100% protection against any infection, but still a substantial percentage. Then, on top of that, very strong protection against serious illness. Again, not 100% protection against hospitalizations and death, but in the 90%s. So, less people getting infected, and those that do get infected are generally able to ward off the disease without major complications.

You are correct that in simple terms it's someone's own choice/risk if they stay unvaccinated. However, when hospitals are filling up and overcapacity because of unvaccinated patients, as has happened in many places in the world, it absolutely does matter. Need cancer treatment? Sorry, doctors busy with unvaccinated covid patients. Need day or overnight surgery? Sorry, all the beds are full of unvaccinated covid patients. Slip and fall down the stairs and break a hip? Good luck.

The vaccine is a major player in making life "normal" again, by turning a severe disease into a "cold" for most people. Two years ago, people were in the hospital with pneumonia, flu, etc., but they were not overloading the system. The vaccine is there to first and foremost protect yourself, and secondly to protect others: directly, by reducing the R0 ("infectivity"), and indirectly, by reducing your chance of clogging up the system so someone else can get hospital treatment.

Good post. Additionally a vaccinated person is far less likely to pass on covid to others than an unvaccinated person thus reducing the number of infections further. It matters that as many people are vaccinated as possible to ensure that as few restrictions need to be imposed as possible.

[sidcow]

5 minutes ago, a-k said:

It does reduce the chance of you getting infected. It's not 100% protection against any infection, but still a substantial percentage. Then, on top of that, very strong protection against serious illness. Again, not 100% protection against hospitalizations and death, but in the 90%s. So, less people getting infected, and those that do get infected are generally able to ward off the disease without major complications.

You are correct that in simple terms it's someone's own choice/risk if they stay unvaccinated. However, when hospitals are filling up and overcapacity because of unvaccinated patients, as has happened in many places in the world, it absolutely does matter. Need cancer treatment? Sorry, doctors busy with unvaccinated covid patients. Need day or overnight surgery? Sorry, all the beds are full of unvaccinated covid patients. Slip and fall down the stairs and break a hip? Good luck.

The vaccine is a major player in making life "normal" again, by turning a severe disease into a "cold" for most people. Two years ago, people were in the hospital with pneumonia, flu, etc., but they were not overloading the system. The vaccine is there to first and foremost protect yourself, and secondly to protect others: directly, by reducing the R0 ("infectivity"), and indirectly, by reducing your chance of clogging up the system so someone else can get hospital treatment.

I'm diabetic and I've not had a review for 18 months now, should be 6 monthly.  I'm guessing all the nurses have been seconded elsewhere.  For all I know my diabetes might be running out of control right now. 

It's not something I dwell on but I will start to worry if another year goes by without a check up. 

I really really wouldn't want to be seriously ill right now.  I suspect there are thousands of deaths that may have been prevented if hospitals and GP's weren't clogged up. 

[choffer]

51 minutes ago, richp999 said:

Not at all. I don't expect anyone to agree with me!  I also don't expect people to blindly follow what they hear from the BBC, or any other expert.  Sure, research and find out as much as you can for yourself. None of us are chemists/biologists etc, so you have to try and find out as much as you can from sources you trust. Then make your *own* choice. Don't just do something because boris johnson tells you to. Like he's a trustworthy fellow.

See, this is the key for me. If you want to research covid, you need to be qualified in the field. You need a lab, you need similarly qualified people to work with, funding, test tubes and all manner of scientific paraphernalia. You’ll need to undertake your research, publish it, have it peer reviewed and tested by the relevant bodies. 
If you’re not doing this, you’re not researching, you are reading stuff on the internet and hearing it about from a variety of sources. 
Now of course, it’s incumbent on all of us to review all sides of the argument and weigh up what we think is the most likely conclusion. I generally put more weight behind the actual research done by qualified people who undertake genuine scientific work, approved by the relevant authorities. An undertaker on the youtubes or stories from unreliable sources are less likely to inform my opinion. 

[Stevo985]

1 hour ago, richp999 said:

 

The vaccine doesn't stop you catching it, doesn't stop you spreading it.

Do you wear a seatbelt in a car?

[Stevo985]

1 hour ago, Xela said:

Correct me if I'm wrong here... but the vaccine doesn't stop you getting covid does it?

It significantly reduces the chances of you getting, and spreading, Covid

[Davkaus]

6 minutes ago, Stevo985 said:

Do you wear a seatbelt in a car?

Probably best for the gene pool that anti-vaxxers don't.

[Davkaus]

1 hour ago, richp999 said:

Not at all. I don't expect anyone to agree with me! 

Well, isn't that a happy coincidence.

[DCJonah]

1 hour ago, richp999 said:

Not at all. I don't expect anyone to agree with me!  I also don't expect people to blindly follow what they hear from the BBC, or any other expert.  Sure, research and find out as much as you can for yourself. None of us are chemists/biologists etc, so you have to try and find out as much as you can from sources you trust. Then make your *own* choice. Don't just do something because boris johnson tells you to. Like he's a trustworthy fellow.

If on the balance of your research, you think its best to go one way, then do it. Just don't force anyone else to. That's all. Let people make up their own mind - and if someone makes a different choice to you , however mad their reasoning might be to you , then it's their choice and you should defend their ability to make it.

I'm curious. If you were diagnosed with cancer or broke a bone or your appendix burst etc...would you refuse any treatment until you'd carried out your own research? 

[HanoiVillan]

Omicron symptoms are ‘far milder’, says Netcare

'Netcare, which operates the largest private healthcare network in South Africa, is seeing milder Covid-19 cases even as omicron is driving up the number of people testing positive for the virus.

The symptoms displayed by patients in Netcare’s hospitals in the epicenter of the current fourth wave, the province of Gauteng, “are far milder than anything we experienced during the first three waves,” chief executive officer Richard Friedland said in a statement Wednesday.

About 90% of Covid-19 patients currently in Netcare hospitals need no oxygen therapy and are considered incidental cases, he said.

During the first three waves, the rate of hospital admissions rose in tandem with the rate of community transmission and this may now be decoupling, he said.

“While we fully recognize that it is still early days, if this trend continues, it would appear that with a few exceptions of those requiring tertiary care, the fourth wave can be adequately treated at a primary care level,” Friedland said.'

more at: https://businesstech.co.za/news/lifestyle/545230/omicron-symptoms-are-far-milder-says-netcare/

We are still getting, understandably, a lot of people in the media saying 'it is too early to tell' with regard to whether omicron leads to milder symptoms. Scientists need to cover themselves, and it's certainly true that we don't yet have gold standard studies demonstrating this. But I think we're now past the point where we need to keep pretending that there's no evidence at all. The thing about doctors is that they are likely to be at least pretty good at looking at patients and seeing how many of them are in danger of going majorly downhill in the next few weeks, versus how many are just feeling a bit rough or whatever.

[bickster]

5 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said:

Omicron symptoms are ‘far milder’, says Netcare

'Netcare, which operates the largest private healthcare network in South Africa, is seeing milder Covid-19 cases even as omicron is driving up the number of people testing positive for the virus.

The symptoms displayed by patients in Netcare’s hospitals in the epicenter of the current fourth wave, the province of Gauteng, “are far milder than anything we experienced during the first three waves,” chief executive officer Richard Friedland said in a statement Wednesday.

About 90% of Covid-19 patients currently in Netcare hospitals need no oxygen therapy and are considered incidental cases, he said.

During the first three waves, the rate of hospital admissions rose in tandem with the rate of community transmission and this may now be decoupling, he said.

“While we fully recognize that it is still early days, if this trend continues, it would appear that with a few exceptions of those requiring tertiary care, the fourth wave can be adequately treated at a primary care level,” Friedland said.'

more at: https://businesstech.co.za/news/lifestyle/545230/omicron-symptoms-are-far-milder-says-netcare/

We are still getting, understandably, a lot of people in the media saying 'it is too early to tell' with regard to whether omicron leads to milder symptoms. Scientists need to cover themselves, and it's certainly true that we don't yet have gold standard studies demonstrating this. But I think we're now past the point where we need to keep pretending that there's no evidence at all. The thing about doctors is that they are likely to be at least pretty good at looking at patients and seeing how many of them are in danger of going majorly downhill in the next few weeks, versus how many are just feeling a bit rough or whatever.

It's welcoming news but there's still the issue of South African demographics being very different to those of Western Europe in terms of age