The Hung Like a Donkey General Election December 2019 Thread

[HanoiVillan]

I will argue for a Labour government until the polls close on the 12th, but I do accept there's a real chance of a significant Tory majority coming from this election. But longer-term, I don't see where they're going. What does Johnson stand for, apart from a Brexit deal he probably wouldn't even vote for if someone else had negotiated it? Not austerity any more, it seems. He doesn't seem to have a coherent vision of what he thinks Britain should look like, particularly. So what's it going to be? Try to keep the whole show on the road by bashing immigrants?

[chrisp65]

Doesn’t care, it doesn’t matter.

Get power, spaff along. Worry about it again in 5 years time.

[PompeyVillan]

It seems Johnson's only two arguements are Brexit and to criticise Corbyn.

[Dodgyknees]

38 minutes ago, PompeyVillan said:

It seems Johnson's only two arguements are Brexit and to criticise Corbyn.

And do t forget the one where he threatened his missus for looking at his laptop. His biggest argument yet.

[snowychap]

1 hour ago, HanoiVillan said:

I will argue for a Labour government until the polls close on the 12th, but I do accept there's a real chance of a significant Tory majority coming from this election. But longer-term, I don't see where they're going. What does Johnson stand for, apart from a Brexit deal he probably wouldn't even vote for if someone else had negotiated it? Not austerity any more, it seems. He doesn't seem to have a coherent vision of what he thinks Britain should look like, particularly. So what's it going to be? Try to keep the whole show on the road by bashing immigrants?

Why on earth do you think there needs to be some sort of future narrative? They'll run with the line they need. Marginal will win.

Edit: Decency is ****.

Edited November 20, 2019 by snowychap

[HanoiVillan]

6 hours ago, snowychap said:

Why on earth do you think there needs to be some sort of future narrative? They'll run with the line they need. Marginal will win.

Edit: Decency is ****.

Of course there doesn't 'need' to be one, but governments are more successful when they have at least a vaguely coherent idea of what they want the country to look like. Johnson will have to make lots and lots of decisions when he wins, and it's interesting to wonder what is going to animate that decision-making. If he wins a 50 seat+ majority, he's not going to be spending five years doing nothing except giveaways to marginal constituencies, so apart from Brexit, what will he be doing? What will he be driving his government to achieve? I just think it's notable that we aren't hearing anybody talk or ask about that.

Edited November 20, 2019 by HanoiVillan

[PompeyVillan]

7 hours ago, avfcDJ said:

And do t forget the one where he threatened his missus for looking at his laptop. His biggest argument yet.

It's quite shallow. 

Anyone else have a nagging feeling that on the fence female voters will be quite put off by Johnson? 

Not just his personal life shenanigans, but his bully boy style in things like that debate. The format was cack to be honest, but Johnson repeatedly kept on talking over the host. He's got form, Momentum have a video on Twitter where he's doing the same thing to a female BBC interviewer.

I have a hunch that woman will be put off by Johnson, and I know there will be a big push at female voters in the Labour manifesto. 

[sharkyvilla]

2 hours ago, HanoiVillan said:

Of course there doesn't 'need' to be one, but governments are more successful when they have at least a vaguely coherent idea of what they want the country to look like. Johnson will have to make lots and lots of decisions when he wins, and it's interesting to wonder what is going to animate that decision-making. If he wins a 50 seat+ majority, he's not going to be spending five years doing nothing except giveaways to marginal constituencies, so apart from Brexit, what will he be doing? What will he be driving his government to achieve? I just think it's notable that we aren't hearing anybody talk or ask about that.

It seemed a bit daft to me that they held the first debate before the manifestos have been published.  There was the odd nugget thrown in by both Johnson and Corbyn but they didnt go into any detail as to what they were.  Ultimately this election will come down to Brexit, I know Boris repeating the whole spiel about getting it done was extremely tiresome but it will work unfortunately.  It would be nice if they did a debate on topics other than Brexit later down the line.  I can't see it happening though and no doubt Boris will turn any awkward questions round to Brexit anyway.

[Dodgyknees]

2 hours ago, PompeyVillan said:

It's quite shallow. 

Anyone else have a nagging feeling that on the fence female voters will be quite put off by Johnson? 

Not just his personal life shenanigans, but his bully boy style in things like that debate. The format was cack to be honest, but Johnson repeatedly kept on talking over the host. He's got form, Momentum have a video on Twitter where he's doing the same thing to a female BBC interviewer.

I have a hunch that woman will be put off by Johnson, and I know there will be a big push at female voters in the Labour manifesto. 

Yep, unless you are called Laura and work for the BBC.

 

[snowychap]

18 hours ago, Sam-AVFC said:

"Get them out"

 

[Amsterdam_Neil_D]

12 hours ago, PompeyVillan said:

Corbyn

To be fair all Corbyn has is "I don't know how I feel about Brexit personally" the UK is about to sell parts of the NHS to the USA.

He predicts the past (No deal possible),  Boris gets a deal (Good or bad he said it could never be done).

He doesn't (nor anyone in the shadow cabinet) know how he feels about Brexit personally now in the present.  Liar.
And his future prediction is that the NHS is going to be sold to Trump et al.  Is it.  Is it really ?  Everyone going to Dover to wave the NHS goodbye.  Never going to happen and he wants to grow up

I think both of them are a bit clueless to be honest.

[bickster]

41 minutes ago, Amsterdam_Neil_D said:

Is it.  Is it really ?

Thats pretty much a yes

[Chindie]

44 minutes ago, Amsterdam_Neil_D said:

To be fair all Corbyn has is "I don't know how I feel about Brexit personally" the UK is about to sell parts of the NHS to the USA.

He predicts the past (No deal possible),  Boris gets a deal (Good or bad he said it could never be done).

He doesn't (nor anyone in the shadow cabinet) know how he feels about Brexit personally now in the present.  Liar.
And his future prediction is that the NHS is going to be sold to Trump et al.  Is it.  Is it really ?  Everyone going to Dover to wave the NHS goodbye.  Never going to happen and he wants to grow up

I think both of them are a bit clueless to be honest.

The US has openly discussed that their aims for a future trade deal with the UK include full market access to the NHS for their pharma and medical industries.

The US has 2 particularly powerful lobbies - pharma and agriculture. Pharma because they have tonnes of money (in large part because they charge prices for medication over there which would make British heads spin - Americans get blown away when they see you can buy a pack of paracetamol in Tesco for 50p). And agriculture because they have an obscene amount of farmers and a huge number of states that revolve around farming industries and being a politician in those states is to know where your bread is buttered.

When (hopefully IF) we turn up to the table with the US, cap in hand, the NHS is the main point of contention, and we'll be in no position to set demands on it. Not that the Tories will wait to anyway - perhaps Johnson's biggest lie last night was the idea that no Tory government would sell off the NHS. Given the chance they'd cash in the second they could. And Brexit offers more than a second...

[cyrusr]

 

Damn Labour party just cannot get away from their antisemitism problem! This will really damage how they do this election! 

Oh wait... 

[Chindie]

Just now, cyrusr said:

 

Damn Labour party just cannot get away from their antisemitism problem! This will really damage how they do this election! 

Oh wait... 

I await the Board of Deputies comments.

...

On this theme, I was bewildered today to see a 'news' story that had David Baddiel claim Corbyn's pronunciation of Epstein was a nod towards anti-Semitism.

I mean...

...what?!

[hippo]

59 minutes ago, Amsterdam_Neil_D said:

To be fair all Corbyn has is "I don't know how I feel about Brexit personally" the UK is about to sell parts of the NHS to the USA.

He predicts the past (No deal possible),  Boris gets a deal (Good or bad he said it could never be done).

He doesn't (nor anyone in the shadow cabinet) know how he feels about Brexit personally now in the present.  Liar.
And his future prediction is that the NHS is going to be sold to Trump et al.  Is it.  Is it really ?  Everyone going to Dover to wave the NHS goodbye.  Never going to happen and he wants to grow up

I think both of them are a bit clueless to be honest.

The NHS has been sold already. Google procudures of low clinical value. Things like hernia repair, ear syringing, knee arthroscopy, facet joint injections are no longer available on the NHS

I have been in agony with a hernia, and back problems - the above treatment s have helped me remain active. Heaven knows what I will do should I need those treatment s in future.

 

Earlier in the year - I had nerve ablation in my back.it was funded by the NHS but took place in private hospital - it costs the NHS £17k . I was told I would be one of the last funded NHS patients to have this - as it has now been withdrawn.

 

There will always be something called the NHS - increasing though it will just provide health guidance - if you need major surgery - you going to need insurance.

 

Cast your eyes to America - where people are burdened with health care debt because they happened to fall ill It's truly frightening ...and it is REAL !

Edited November 20, 2019 by hippo

[bobzy]

4 minutes ago, cyrusr said:

 

Damn Labour party just cannot get away from their antisemitism problem! This will really damage how they do this election! 

Oh wait... 

 

"At least we do something about it, unlike Labour!" - says <x> of the Conservative party.

*general public and journalists nod their heads*

[bobzy]

1 hour ago, Amsterdam_Neil_D said:

To be fair all Corbyn has is "I don't know how I feel about Brexit personally" the UK is about to sell parts of the NHS to the USA.

He predicts the past (No deal possible),  Boris gets a deal (Good or bad he said it could never be done).

He doesn't (nor anyone in the shadow cabinet) know how he feels about Brexit personally now in the present.  Liar.
And his future prediction is that the NHS is going to be sold to Trump et al.  Is it.  Is it really ?  Everyone going to Dover to wave the NHS goodbye.  Never going to happen and he wants to grow up

I think both of them are a bit clueless to be honest.

 

[Chindie]

The Tory plan for the NHS isn't too get rid of it. It's to make it into a brand. Run for profit under the umbrella of what it used to be. Slowly drained. Push private care due to 'NHS failings'. Get a cracking return on those shares.

[HanoiVillan]

2 minutes ago, hippo said:

The NHS has been sold already. Google procudures of low clinical value. Things like hernia repair, ear syringing, knee arthroscopy, facet joint injections are no longer available on the NHS

I have been in agony with a hernia, and back problems - the above treatment s have helped me remain active. Heaven knows what I will do should I need those treatment s in future.

Earlier in the year - I had nerve ablation in my back.it was funded by the NHS but took place in private hospital - it costs the NHS £17k . I was told I would be one of the last funded NHS patients to have this - as it has now been withdrawn.

There will always be something called the NHS - increasing though it will just provide health guidance - if you need major surgery - you going to need insurance.

Cast your eyes to America - where people are burdened with health care debt because they happened to fall ill It's truly frightening ...and it is REAL !

I'm sorry to hear about your health problems hippo. You make some very important points in that post.