The Hung Like a Donkey General Election December 2019 Thread

[bickster]

5 hours ago, peterms said:

 

This is the obscure Anti-zionist lot though isn't it?

[sharkyvilla]

19 minutes ago, bickster said:

I hope not, Neil is a grade A twunt but he's not one for letting politicians off the hook usually. I think he'd prefer to have all three heads mounted on a crest and hung in his chateau

Yes I wouldn't be surprised if Boris pulled a sickie and avoided it.  He would be toast just based on the articles from the past let alone what he has done since Brexit.

[Xela]

Didn't Neil sack Boris from the Spectator years ago? Bit of history there. 

[Vive_La_Villa]

I wonder if it’s a dilemma for a lot of Tory voters as a lot of them would ideally want to remain or negotiate a new deal but the alternative of a Labour Party would not suit them personally.    

[chrisp65]

51 minutes ago, Chindie said:

I don't think they would.

It's quite clear to me that the only resolution to this is for Corbyn to go. Until that happens, this will keep coming and keep coming and keep coming. Many of the most vocal voices about this have openly said Corbyn must fall on his sword, and there's a remarkable correlation between those opposed to Corbyn's politics and those making the most noise about how he's worse than Hitler.

It's a remarkable correlation. It even extends outside of Westminster.

First off, yes I agree.

Agreed Corbyn has a bigger issue in that its about him. There are people either genuinely or ‘politically’ that have decided he is an existential threat to the UK. But he could have forced them to change tack, rather than allow the same battering ram to keep on battering. Surely he could first off just give one of those sweeping 'if' apologies. Then offer a cross party, multi faith, multi ethnicity joined up approach where all parties and their registered supporters are judged by the same standards and where required given the same chance to educate themselves or the same punishments. From the bottom to the top, from water melon smiles to retweeting hate to not understanding the difference between anti Zionism and anti Semitism. Lets have a fair open transparent set of rules, take it out of the hands of the internal party mechanisms, cross party, all join hands and sing the coke song together. Offer the tories a chance to cleanse themselves of islamophobia side by side with him to set an example. Hand of friendship to Johnson to crush racism and genuinely understand how other people perceive our words. 

Also, they could all take a leaf out of the Plaid book. Obviously on a much much smaller scale, they had Sahar Al-Faifi in a face veil on one of their election broadcasts saying Wales was for everyone. Inevitably, someone found deleted tweets from 2012 where she said stuff about Jews and Israel. Personally, I find it fascinating how quickly ‘someone’ can offer up deleted tweets from 2012, but that’s a whole other issue. Anyway, she was immediately suspended from the party, same day. She immediately gave an unqualified apology including: 

Quote

"Several years ago, I made a handful of social media posts that I regret deeply as they cross the boundary of criticism of Israel into anti-Semitism. I deleted the tweets more than five years ago, and issued an apology to Jewish organisations and others. I have also undertaken anti-Semitism training, both formally through the Board of Deputies and informally with Jewish colleagues in order to ensure I never repeat the same mistakes. I am committed to working for a Wales safe and open to all, and free from any kind of discrimination or abuse.

As someone who has faced much abuse verbal and even physical, I know the importance of language and that the current political climate is one in which many minority groups - including Muslim women - face an impossible tidal wave of abuse, suspicion, and guilt, by simply being active in public life, all of which is most vitriolic online."

That closed the issue down on the same day it came up. 
 

[peterms]

29 minutes ago, Xela said:

Didn't Neil sack Boris from the Spectator years ago? Bit of history there. 

It was Max Hastings, from the torygraph I believe.  Hastings recently had this to say about him.

Quote

It would be fanciful to liken the ascent of Boris Johnson to the outbreak of global war, but similar forces are in play.

There is room for debate about whether he is a scoundrel or mere rogue, but not much about his moral bankruptcy, rooted in a contempt for truth.

Nonetheless, even before the Conservative national membership cheers him in as our prime minister – denied the option of Nigel Farage, whom some polls suggest they would prefer – Tory MPs have thronged to do just that.

I have known Johnson since the 1980s, when I edited the Daily Telegraph and he was our flamboyant Brussels correspondent...

I have argued for a decade that, while he is a brilliant entertainer who made a popular maître d’ for London as its mayor, he is unfit for national office, because it seems he cares for no interest save his own fame and gratification...

Dignity still matters in public office, and Johnson will never have it. Yet his graver vice is cowardice, reflected in a willingness to tell any audience whatever he thinks most likely to please, heedless of the inevitability of its contradiction an hour later.

Like many showy personalities, he is of weak character...

 

[peterms]

59 minutes ago, bickster said:

This is the obscure Anti-zionist lot though isn't it?

I think it's the Haredi grouping, which is around 15% of the total, but they are not the only non-Zionists in the Jewish community.

[Wainy316]

IIRC Neill slaughtered Johnson a few months ago but obviously it never made the majority of papers. 

[Chindie]

4 minutes ago, chrisp65 said:

First off, yes I agree.

Agreed Corbyn has a bigger issue in that its about him. There are people either genuinely or ‘politically’ that have decided he is an existential threat to the UK. But he could have forced them to change tack, rather than allow the same battering ram to keep on battering. Surely he could first off just give one of those sweeping 'if' apologies. Then offer a cross party, multi faith, multi ethnicity joined up approach where all parties and their registered supporters are judged by the same standards and where required given the same chance to educate themselves or the same punishments. From the bottom to the top, from water melon smiles to retweeting hate to not understanding the difference between anti Zionism and anti Semitism. Lets have a fair open transparent set of rules, take it out of the hands of the internal party mechanisms, cross party, all join hands and sing the coke song together. Offer the tories a chance to cleanse themselves of islamophobia side by side with him to set an example. Hand of friendship to Johnson to crush racism and genuinely understand how other people perceive our words. 

Also, they could all take a leaf out of the Plaid book. Obviously on a much much smaller scale, they had Sahar Al-Faifi in a face veil on one of their election broadcasts saying Wales was for everyone. Inevitably, someone found deleted tweets from 2012 where she said stuff about Jews and Israel. Personally, I find it fascinating how quickly ‘someone’ can offer up deleted tweets from 2012, but that’s a whole other issue. Anyway, she was immediately suspended from the party, same day. She immediately gave an unqualified apology including: 

That closed the issue down on the same day it came up. 
 

I don't think he can force his critics to change tack.

He has apologised, he has improved the parties processes, people have been dealt with. It's never good enough.

If he followed your advice, to push for cross party agreement etc on an classes of racism, I've no doubt, none at all, that the attack would become him equivalising, not really being serious about anti-Semitism, about deflecting it, which quickly will descend to the nasty nudge nudge heactuallyhatestheJewsreally stuff we have now.

Because it's just an attack line against him. They've tried other stuff, but only really the anti-Semitism stuck as it's very difficult to counteract. And so it keeps coming. Corbyn is a threat - he represents a worldview that the system cannot abide, and he represents a worldview at odds with a lot of Jewish thought over Israel. So it's been whipped and spun and amplified and rang again and again and again. All with the same message - he's failed on this (even if the truth is not so) and actually really he is an anti-Semite, when that simply holds no water, and ultimately he needs to go. And that's the crux. He must go. That's it.

It's kinda despicable imo. There's plenty to deride Corbyn for, completely validly. But they've gone for a really grim attack that both taints a man that has stood against what he's accused of even more than some accusers, and they've used one of humanities great tragedies to extremely cynical ends.

[peterms]

 

[HanoiVillan]

Pretty grimly ironic to be accusing other people of being like Hitler, while at the same time proposing to enshrine property confiscation from travellers in law. 

[HanoiVillan]

That 'Hindu Council' guy that people were joyfully touting around yesterday evening looks worse by the minute. Here he is claiming that an 8-year-old rape victim, wasn't actually raped:

 

[NurembergVillan]

What a **** mess we're in.

[mjmooney]

19 hours ago, NurembergVillan said:

100% of Jews believe in God

Not true. 

[NurembergVillan]

2 minutes ago, mjmooney said:

Not true. 

We've covered that now.  I acknowledged my mistake, even if I still tie it all back into religious bollocks.

[NurembergVillan]

I don't know why we can't just be people.  Why do humans need to subdivide?

Dogs don't look at other dogs and think "I'm not sniffing your arse, you're black", or "you shouldn't be in Sutton Park because you're an Alsatian, you French/German clearing in the woods".

[StefanAVFC]

 

[Dodgyknees]

17 minutes ago, NurembergVillan said:

I don't know why we can't just be people.  Why do humans need to subdivide?

Dogs don't look at other dogs and think "I'm not sniffing your arse, you're black", or "you shouldn't be in Sutton Park because you're an Alsatian, you French/German clearing in the woods".

Amen 

[Xann]

9 hours ago, Awol said:

Not really, only a cold assessment of the facts.

The biggest cold fact is the rock everyone's begatting their kids onto is becoming sterile.

Another big cold fact is that money isn't a universal constant. It's an abstract, we made it up.

Time to deprogram yourself, soldier. Because the answer isn't handing the country to the money men.

[Dodgyknees]

451 pages showing Tories have been lying.

Media

ANTISEMITISM