lexicon Posted August 10, 2023 Share Posted August 10, 2023 13 minutes ago, Wainy316 said: Well if Archer goes we need to urgently address the 'if Watkins gets injured we're effed' problem. Depends on what the 'Mystery Man' Jhon Duran has to offer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
useless Posted August 10, 2023 Share Posted August 10, 2023 "He played very well last year at Middlesbrough," Emery said when asked about the striker's future. "He scored goals and his level increased. We are with Ollie Watkins, Jhon Duran and him in the squad. Duran is still injured but he is coming back next week and hopefully we can add him in two or three weeks after working with us. "With Cameron Archer we were playing him in pre-season and we were thinking it could be a possibility to let him go and play and continue improving his level in another club. Actually, he is our player and we want to keep him under our control always because we believe in him. Sometimes the plan that we have to do with them, or him in this case, is to try and help him continuing taking time and minutes and confidence in another club." Emery added: "We have always two options, sometimes on loan, sometimes selling them. We are analysing each case individually and trying to get the best option." Birmingham Mail Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrBlack Posted August 10, 2023 Share Posted August 10, 2023 3 minutes ago, useless said: "He played very well last year at Middlesbrough," Emery said when asked about the striker's future. "He scored goals and his level increased. We are with Ollie Watkins, Jhon Duran and him in the squad. Duran is still injured but he is coming back next week and hopefully we can add him in two or three weeks after working with us. "With Cameron Archer we were playing him in pre-season and we were thinking it could be a possibility to let him go and play and continue improving his level in another club. Actually, he is our player and we want to keep him under our control always because we believe in him. Sometimes the plan that we have to do with them, or him in this case, is to try and help him continuing taking time and minutes and confidence in another club." Emery added: "We have always two options, sometimes on loan, sometimes selling them. We are analysing each case individually and trying to get the best option." Birmingham Mail That sounds like we are keeping him and loaning him and selling him all at the same time. It's like schrodinger's cat, in transfer form. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheStagMan Posted August 10, 2023 Share Posted August 10, 2023 4 minutes ago, MrBlack said: That sounds like we are keeping him and loaning him and selling him all at the same time. It's like schrodinger's cat, in transfer form. Schrodinger's striker. He scores goals, but if we observe them, it changes the outcome Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaJay Posted August 10, 2023 Share Posted August 10, 2023 (edited) Seems like we may do similar to Ramsay and look to sell with a buy back option, would help with FFP and enable to club to continue to progress. The investment in our academy might just be what helps us stay competitive as even Newcastle despite their wealth are impacted by FFP Edited August 10, 2023 by VillaJay 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indigo Posted August 10, 2023 Share Posted August 10, 2023 14 minutes ago, useless said: "He played very well last year at Middlesbrough," Emery said when asked about the striker's future. "He scored goals and his level increased. We are with Ollie Watkins, Jhon Duran and him in the squad. Duran is still injured but he is coming back next week and hopefully we can add him in two or three weeks after working with us. "With Cameron Archer we were playing him in pre-season and we were thinking it could be a possibility to let him go and play and continue improving his level in another club. Actually, he is our player and we want to keep him under our control always because we believe in him. Sometimes the plan that we have to do with them, or him in this case, is to try and help him continuing taking time and minutes and confidence in another club." Emery added: "We have always two options, sometimes on loan, sometimes selling them. We are analysing each case individually and trying to get the best option." Birmingham Mail The word "control" is operative here. The manner in which the elite clubs are able to hoard (young) players and utilise them in every way from squad building, managing homegrown quotas, keeping in line with FFP etc but inserting buy back clauses at the same time has all changed the market. Villa aren't quite at the level of some yet but you can see that the aspiration is there and it's why I think people are off with saying City, Chelsea and so forth are irrelevant comparisons when the prospective sales of Ramsey, Archer etc are being discussed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrBlack Posted August 10, 2023 Share Posted August 10, 2023 13 minutes ago, Indigo said: The word "control" is operative here. The manner in which the elite clubs are able to hoard (young) players and utilise them in every way from squad building, managing homegrown quotas, keeping in line with FFP etc but inserting buy back clauses at the same time has all changed the market. Villa aren't quite at the level of some yet but you can see that the aspiration is there and it's why I think people are off with saying City, Chelsea and so forth are irrelevant comparisons when the prospective sales of Ramsey, Archer etc are being discussed. I guess the limitation we have is that this is only going to work with the fans of the club, that genuinely want to play for us. Whilst Man City can do it with any player because they'll all be happy coming back to a team at the top of the league, we can only do it with players that will likely want to come back to us. And realistically, even a fan may change their mind once their club has already sold them. I suppose the messaging when we sell them is important. If we explain to Archer that we want him to continue developing, but can't give him the game time he needs, and a loan would see him dropping down a level which isn't what we want, I can see his fan persuasion holding strong. We say we'll buy him back in two years, and he's happy. We retain the right to not action that buy back, but the second we start doing that we are going to lose the loyalty that we depend on. For Ramsey, we have the enticement of playing alongside his brother as an added sweetener for him wanting to come back. Unless of course in the mean time we've reached the top and displaced the oil barons, and then we can do wtf we want like they do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaAlex Posted August 10, 2023 Share Posted August 10, 2023 I think there's a difference still to what we are doing and what City are. Archer and Ramsey are young lads who the academy have developed for years, since they were under 10. We've always had the aim of them becoming Villa first team players, but our progression and ambition means their development is no longer best suited at our club. In the past players would be sent out on loan, and managers would often freeze them out sooner than others as they are not a valuable asset and are more expendable asset for long term goals. Sending them out on permanent deals gives these clubs further reason to play and develop them they will get reward for their investment if the player performs well, with the added risk of unlike a loan being unable to get rid of them so easily. It also gives the young player an environment where they can comfortably grow, not be stuck in youth football or a loan system and financially be better off at the same time. City on the other hand, Chelsea too buy the best players around Europe young and then sell them for profit, a lot with no intention of them ever playing for the club. Borges a prime example going to Ajax. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villan95 Posted August 10, 2023 Share Posted August 10, 2023 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thabucks Posted August 10, 2023 Share Posted August 10, 2023 3 minutes ago, villan95 said: Makes a lot of sense and my interpretation of emery’s statement is he isn’t in his immediate plans so best he leaves but we will monitor how he performs. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villan95 Posted August 10, 2023 Share Posted August 10, 2023 Just now, thabucks said: Makes a lot of sense and my interpretation of emery’s statement is he isn’t in his immediate plans so best he leaves but we will monitor how he performs. Yeah maybe a similar deal to the Ramsey one is best for all parties and we get someone in that Emery thinks can contribute immediately. I saw a Sheff Utd fan comment that Archer was the best opposition player they saw at Bramall lane last season. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skarroki Posted August 10, 2023 Share Posted August 10, 2023 7 minutes ago, villan95 said: They have no money or strikers really so a new contract signed followed by a loan out in the Prem for the season would be the best scenario imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted August 10, 2023 Share Posted August 10, 2023 This sounds to me like emery does not rate him and he will be sold. Im not convinced this is correct decision but whatever emery decides ill back him 100% 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thabucks Posted August 10, 2023 Share Posted August 10, 2023 10 minutes ago, skarroki said: They have no money or strikers really so a new contract signed followed by a loan out in the Prem for the season would be the best scenario imo. Why a new contract ? He signed one last season until 2027 … Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jas10 Posted August 10, 2023 Share Posted August 10, 2023 Regarding Aaron and Cameron…. There’s no better place for them to get game time and develop than in the league we are in itself! Quite advantageous that we can move our youngsters to “lower level” PL clubs and see what they can really do… as long as they play fairly regularly… Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lexicon Posted August 10, 2023 Share Posted August 10, 2023 3 minutes ago, Jas10 said: Regarding Aaron and Cameron…. There’s no better place for them to get game time and develop than in the league we are in itself! Quite advantageous that we can move our youngsters to “lower level” PL clubs and see what they can really do… as long as they play fairly regularly… Well it's win-win, really. We either get a decent wedge or pay a relatively small sum for a more polished player. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jas10 Posted August 10, 2023 Share Posted August 10, 2023 Just now, lexicon said: Well it's win-win, really. We either get a decent wedge or pay a relatively small sum for a more polished player. Yep, ideal scenario. Next best thing to them actually playing for us… if they’re not ready… go and prove yourselves… if you do, you’re welcome to return… 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pinebro Posted August 10, 2023 Share Posted August 10, 2023 21 hours ago, Demitri_C said: I think archer sale would be a mistake tbh. But i dont think emery rates him. As much aa i like archer i trust emeey so if this is what he wants unai gets my backing I don't think Emery is too keen on poacher strikers. Got rid of Ings as well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lexicon Posted August 10, 2023 Share Posted August 10, 2023 Just now, Pinebro said: I don't think Emery is too keen on poacher strikers. Got rid of Ings as well Considering how we play that makes sense. They're a bit old-fashioned nowadays. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CVByrne Posted August 10, 2023 Share Posted August 10, 2023 1 hour ago, Demitri_C said: This sounds to me like emery does not rate him and he will be sold. Im not convinced this is correct decision but whatever emery decides ill back him 100% The thing is if we get 15-20mil and a buy back clause. We are hitting hopefully £40m profit this summer in sales which will fund hopefully another signing and the Zaniolo loan + buy option. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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