Dean Smith

[TRO]

54 minutes ago, KenjiOgiwara said:

I think this has very little to do with what we do in training. 

Our pressing intensity is lower than it could be cause we clearly don't have the fitness levels we want yet. That takes time. And since there are a lot of sides that are better than us we will be losing possession a lot, and we all know you get more tired without the ball than with the ball. I think they basically are careful about chasing so we don't collapse completely. 

Thirdly heading ability isn't really coached at this level methinks. You might coach set piece tactics, but the ability to head the ball is something they should have. Unfortunately a lot of our players are small and/or from nations that keeps the ball on the ground so this isn't a strong trait they got. I think the only player I am annoyed with in that department is Wes. He should be good at it. But I guess in reality only Mings and Engels are good at this. Grealish is surprisingly weak at it for being English. 

I think in terms of gaining territory or turnovers its really important in giving momentum a boost....I get what you are saying, but if a weakness is being displayed in games, then the training ground is the place to fix it.

I can't remember the last time we threatened in the air at a corner, never mind score.....its not very good ,that.

The losing possession so easily is also a major concern, particularly when Jack is out......when you put all these shortfalls together, it is quite concerning.

My worry is we start drifting in to losing away and drawing at Home and the way we are playing in terms of some of our weaknesses, I can see it happening.

I am really not sure about the fitness....but I do think other teams seem to have a much better handle on it.....I have doubts and questions as to whether our players are being driven hard enough in training....not being first to the ball is another feature of this and stretching for every pass.

Edited November 11, 2019 by TRO

[TRO]

49 minutes ago, cbr600rr said:

when your talisman is not in the team you need grafters who close down & press the game.

 

and for the life of me, I cannot understand why we don't do it enough.

We talk about young players......Deehan, Gray and Little were all in their early twenties when they ran for fun....they were like a bottle of champagne , bubbling and on the balls of their feet.

I was honestly expecting our young players to be running for fun too....instead, they look laboured uninterested and doubtful.....hesitant and undecisive.

I hear the claims for time and settling in....and that's what I am hanging on to for solace....but I am starting to have doubts.

Settling in is a legitimate claim, no doubts about that, but some stuff like not competing for headers or not getting to the ball fast enough, raises questions for me.

I get this distinct feeling watching us, that we think we can just go out and play champagne football and have scant regard for growing in to a game and nullifying the opposition.....There is a whole bunch of qualities that are required to dampen the spirit of the opposition, I don't see enough of them employed by us, I don't also see enough players who can do it.

The famous quote...." You have to win the right to play football", seems lost on us.......It worries me, I have to say.

The game on Sunday, made me fearful.....I thought we was so wide open in just about every passage of play, we rely soley on the defence to defend, now that sounds daft, but the forwards and midfield, can't defend....We were stretching for everything and looked a very untidy and disorganised outfit.

I understand the settling in argument....but somethings that I see ,its hard to use that in the reasoning.....There are quite a number of shortfalls that are organisational things and it doesn't need MOTD to enlighten us.....its there for all to see. I was actually embarrassed by that performance on Sunday.....We can talk about so many things.....but we can't even compete for Throw ins, we get beat in the air nearly every time.....that's just not acceptable in my book.

 

[Philosopher]

27 minutes ago, TRO said:

I think in terms of gaining territory or turnovers its really important in giving momentum a boost....I get what you are saying, but if a weakness is being displayed in games, then the training ground is the place to fix it.

I can't remember the last time we threatened in the air at a corner, never mind score.....its not very good ,that.

The losing possession so easily is also a major concern, particularly when Jack is out......when you put all these shortfalls together, it is quite concerning.

My worry is we start drifting in to losing away and drawing at Home and the way we are playing in terms of some of our weaknesses, I can see it happening.

I am really not sure about the fitness....but I do think other teams seem to have a much better handle on it.....I have doubts and questions as to whether our players are being driven hard enough in training....not being first to the ball is another feature of this and stretching for every pass.

The problem with the fitness is that we are trying to implement a higher pressing game, which requires fitness levels to be even higher. The only way to get the fitness required for the premier league is by playing games, training can't imitate that. Apart from the goalie none of our players have ever been premier league first team regulars. 

Time is needed, for fitness, for team cohesion, to get the pressing right, to get the likes of Wesley, Luiz and Trezguet to adapt to the style of football. Let's be clear we were not expected to beat Wolves yesterday by anyone outside of Villa fans. 

[TRO]

Just a point of observation.

I notice Dean rarely speaks to his coaches during a game.....I notice many other managers consulting, but Dean rarely does.

John Terry's face on Sunday cut an interesting figure.....is he being consulted enough? is he involved enough? does he just collect the bibs?

Not saying that is the case.....just doesn't seem very animated to me....not trying to create a conspiracy theory, just feel like, things are not driven, and just inevitable....that's the look I interpret.

Edited November 11, 2019 by TRO

[mykeyb]

I believe we have enough quality to stay up, do we have enough grafters and will Dean adapt his philosophy because what we are currently doing isn't going to cut the mustard

[KenjiOgiwara]

12 minutes ago, TRO said:

and for the life of me, I cannot understand why we don't do it enough.

We talk about young players......Deehan, Gray and Little were all in their early twenties when they ran for fun....they were like a bottle of champagne , bubbling and on the balls of their feet.

But the game has changed hasn't it? Everything is much better and improved in the finer details these days. There's absolutely no chance these players would be running all over the pitch this days, cause they would be knackered within 20 minutes. 

Even John McGinn who is like a duracell bunny, you can visibly see him getting leggy in the matches. It's just not possible to keep running at the pace the game is played now, with how strong teams are in possession. 

[TRO]

10 minutes ago, Philosopher said:

The problem with the fitness is that we are trying to implement a higher pressing game, which requires fitness levels to be even higher. The only way to get the fitness required for the premier league is by playing games, training can't imitate that. Apart from the goalie none of our players have ever been premier league first team regulars. 

Time is needed, for fitness, for team cohesion, to get the pressing right, to get the likes of Wesley, Luiz and Trezguet to adapt to the style of football. Let's be clear we were not expected to beat Wolves yesterday by anyone outside of Villa fans. 

I accept that...but a draw would have been welcome.....Wolves were by no means a team to fear on that showing....a fully functioning Villa, would have beaten them.

Not saying you are wrong, because I don't know the answer.....But Sheff Utd players have not played in the Premier league before, but they swarm their opponents for 90+ minutes.....just using them as one example......Conversely it looks like Norwich have lost their zest too.

[Dave-R]

14 hours ago, Pimlico_Villa said:

Yes, but we are constrained by not having an ounce of quality beyond the starting 11, aside from Lansbury. He probably could conceive of a Plan B, but we just don’t have the players to do anything differently. 
 

That is why Jan is massively important recruitment-wise. 

Agreed, I think yesterday's game showed how important we desperately need more options, quality options at that. No one on that bench were the quality we needed or could count on to change a game. Then we also have to go beyond the bench and need players on a stand by in case that quality we bring in and those on the bench for whatever reason can not play a game.

I'd still say we are undermanned with lack of quality, this is something that needs to be fixed, yet  it won't be a quick fixed this season. Depends how much more the owners are willing to put into this season. I think they will still put around a ton into the squad come January.

I myself were saying we need to get rid of at least six from the old regime still, I'd go as far as to say we should now hold on to them while also bringing in better quality. Those six players pushed out from the bench would just be standby players for those who are on the bench or are at least pushed to the bench. Seriously wonder why Chelsea and other clubs in this league have 30+ player big squads, it's for the times we went through yesterday, they leave nothing to chance.

Its crazy but I can certainly see that if we dont survive the prem, that if we go down we will certainly use a second seasons premier promotion title win/playoff prize money filling up a subs bench and beyond.

Hope it doesn't come to that because it's tough for clubs to make money in the championship, I do think we'd bounce on back up if we dropped and think every player would stay a season at least and give it a shot.

Just hope we can ride the waves and survive, that's all I'm hoping for and even yesterday against wolves showed how were willing to fight for results. I'll give that our players, there heads no matter what didnt drop and they always thought theyd get something from the game, i admire that in players, that is what we need.

Edited November 11, 2019 by Dave-R

[TRO]

2 minutes ago, KenjiOgiwara said:

But the game has changed hasn't it? Everything is much better and improved in the finer details these days. There's absolutely no chance these players would be running all over the pitch this days, cause they would be knackered within 20 minutes. 

Even John McGinn who is like a duracell bunny, you can visibly see him getting leggy in the matches. It's just not possible to keep running at the pace the game is played now, with how strong teams are in possession. 

Are you having a laugh.

Have you seen Leicester and Sheff Utd?.......They could sell their energy and still have enough......they are " at it" from the first whistle to the last.....That's just a cop out, what you are suggesting, "the game has changed", of course it has....but they were playing in their own era not now, its all relative.

Vardy don't stop....Harvey Barnes runs for fun....they all do.

I don't think John was a good example yesterday.......and John has probably not got a duracell as he runs out of juice c 75 minutes.....I love him, but its a fact.

not sure, but I think we won possession yesterday?

[Dr_Pangloss]

5 minutes ago, TRO said:

Are you having a laugh.

Have you seen Leicester and Sheff Utd?.......They could sell their energy and still have enough......they are " at it" from the first whistle to the last.....That's just a cop out, what you are suggesting, "the game has changed", of course it has....but they were playing in their own era not now, its all relative.

Vardy don't stop....Harvey Barnes runs for fun....they all do.

I don't think John was a good example yesterday.......and John has probably not got a duracell as he runs out of juice c 75 minutes.....I love him, but its a fact.

not sure, but I think we won possession yesterday?

Agreed, there's something deficient with the coaching. What I would say is that United have been together a lot longer as a squad so Wilder has had more time to get his methods across. The only concern I have is that it's not a matter of time just capability. Are our players being conditioned for keeping the ball and having a high press? It's not clear they are.

[KenjiOgiwara]

11 minutes ago, TRO said:

Are you having a laugh.

Have you seen Leicester and Sheff Utd?.......They could sell their energy and still have enough......they are " at it" from the first whistle to the last.....That's just a cop out, what you are suggesting, "the game has changed", of course it has....but they were playing in their own era not now, its all relative.

Vardy don't stop....Harvey Barnes runs for fun....they all do.

I don't think John was a good example yesterday.......and John has probably not got a duracell as he runs out of juice c 75 minutes.....I love him, but its a fact.

not sure, but I think we won possession yesterday?

Good points, but if there is a fitness issue it will take time to get there. 

[gwi1890]

1 hour ago, KenjiOgiwara said:

I think this has very little to do with what we do in training. 

Our pressing intensity is lower than it could be cause we clearly don't have the fitness levels we want yet. That takes time. And since there are a lot of sides that are better than us we will be losing possession a lot, and we all know you get more tired without the ball than with the ball. I think they basically are careful about chasing so we don't collapse completely. 

Thirdly heading ability isn't really coached at this level methinks. You might coach set piece tactics, but the ability to head the ball is something they should have. Unfortunately a lot of our players are small and/or from nations that keeps the ball on the ground so this isn't a strong trait they got. I think the only player I am annoyed with in that department is Wes. He should be good at it. But I guess in reality only Mings and Engels are good at this. Grealish is surprisingly weak at it for being English. 

I think heading ability is coached, you only have to look at the amount of headed goals mane scores theese days Ronaldo added it to his game and so did Bale , yes I kown Bale , Ronaldo are bigger players but I dont remember them being natural headers of the ball

[villalad21]

I just think Wilder's style of play is more suited in this league rather than Farke and Smith's style of play.

Both us and Norwich are playing a way too ambitious style. It's working in Championship but when you come up against teams that got better players than you, you need to find other ways to get results.

Yesterday was an obvious example of this. Newcastle's approach against Wolves is the right approach. Sitting deep, not letting them counter and being hard to beat.

[KenjiOgiwara]

26 minutes ago, villalad21 said:

I just think Wilder's style of play is more suited in this league rather than Farke and Smith's style of play.

Both us and Norwich are playing a way too ambitious style. It's working in Championship but when you come up against teams that got better players than you, you need to find other ways to get results.

Yesterday was an obvious example of this. Newcastle's approach against Wolves is the right approach. Sitting deep, not letting them counter and being hard to beat.

I just couldn't disagree more. His style might be more suited with limited players, but I hope and think we can compete with our football. I am so done with British cloggers and managers like Bruce, AM, MON and what not. It might take us some time to get it right, but we've already seen the potential in Deano's football.  

Personally I think football has an entertainment element to it, and this is the first time in 20 years I feel entertained watching Villa. 

[Vive_La_Villa]

I hope Smith keeps faith in his own system and doesn’t resort to changing what he believes in to squeeze out results. Yes we’re on a bad run of form but we’ve played well in most games and have been unlucky.  I understand mixing it up based on the opposition but I hope we don’t end up with a Lambert type defend our way to safety until it no longer works. 
 

December is a massive month of us. Could decide our fate.

[Vive_La_Villa]

3 minutes ago, KenjiOgiwara said:

I just couldn't disagree more. His style might be more suited with limited players, but I hope and think we can compete with our football. I am so done with British cloggers and managers like Bruce, AM, MON and what not. It might take us some time to get it right, but we've already seen the potential in Deano's football.  

Personally I think football has an entertainment element to it, and this is the first time in 20 years I feel entertained watching Villa. 

You read my mind. 

[useless]

I've watched Sheffield United play several times this season and they play good football, it's not like they're playing overly defensively or hoof ball. The difference between us and them is that we needed to change most of our side, whereas they just needed the odd signing here and there, similar to Wolves when they came up. And the difference between them and Norwich, is that Norwich didn't spend any money at all. Also they're only six points ahead of us, we still might finish ahead of them, we play Newcastle next and they have Man Utd, not beyond the realms of possibility that after the next round of fixtures we'll be just three points behind them.

[Philosopher]

58 minutes ago, TRO said:

I accept that...but a draw would have been welcome.....Wolves were by no means a team to fear on that showing....a fully functioning Villa, would have beaten them.

Not saying you are wrong, because I don't know the answer.....But Sheff Utd players have not played in the Premier league before, but they swarm their opponents for 90+ minutes.....just using them as one example......Conversely it looks like Norwich have lost their zest too.

The problem with pressing is it also has to be done as a unit, otherwise you leave too many gaps, then if that is being exploited and our opponents ( like yesterday ) are finding the gaps then that leads to indecision, and hesitation. Sheffield United have the same midfield unit and the same defensive units as last season so obviously they will be better organised. 

It also doesn't help that we had defended deeper and had not pressed high up the pitch in our last two matches with regard to the pressing. Without Jack playing on the front foot is a lot more difficult as he is certainly the ring leader of the midfield.

Pressing effectively take a lot of organisation and understanding which is for us very much a work in progress still.

[MotoMkali]

We are too cheap in possession. There is a lack of movement off the ball and a lack of composure on it. When we concede it is very often because we gave the ball away cheaply. Mcginns crap ball to Taylor for instance. Put some force behind your balls and make sure they get there. I love mcginn but plainly put he isn't an attacking midfielder and he doesn't have good enough passing instincts. Aside from that it prevents him from closing down which is another reason we concede because it let's the opposition keep the ball on the edge of our box.

In Jan we need to sign another energy guy in midfield so we can sub mcginn off before he becomes a liability. 

[villalad21]

40 minutes ago, KenjiOgiwara said:

I just couldn't disagree more. His style might be more suited with limited players, but I hope and think we can compete with our football. I am so done with British cloggers and managers like Bruce, AM, MON and what not. It might take us some time to get it right, but we've already seen the potential in Deano's football.  

Personally I think football has an entertainment element to it, and this is the first time in 20 years I feel entertained watching Villa. 

It's not about giving up on our style of play.

Some times you have to accept that the opposition players are better than you and adapt.

Newcastle game is different as i don't think they got a better team, but against Wolves, Smith's inability to adapt was his downfall.

Edited November 11, 2019 by villalad21