Dean Smith

[Sulberto21]

6 minutes ago, DCJonah said:

Agreed. And without Barkley we might not beat Southampton and Arsenal.

It can't just be everything good that happens stays the same and my specific change gets us more points. That's a crazy way to think of things. 

Yes those winning with ten men are always good.

Yes I know he scored against Southampton. Bah humbug!

[AvfcRigo82]

11 minutes ago, DCJonah said:

Agreed. And without Barkley we might not beat Southampton and Arsenal.

It can't just be everything good that happens stays the same and my specific change gets us more points. That's a crazy way to think of things. 

Without this spilling too much into a Ross Barkley thread, I think it's fair to say that there is more arguments against Barkley than there is in favour.

So far as a whole it would appear that those in favour in the 'arguments against' Barkley would be correct in their judgement regarding the level of performances and work rates as a whole that the player has delivered in his loan at Villa.

It has been evident for weeks that a change has been needed.

Dean Smith made the bold move yesterday of making those changes and it has paid off and we looked better for it too.

[DCJonah]

Just now, AvfcRigo82 said:

Without this spilling too much into a Ross Barkley thread, I think it's fair to say that there is more arguments against Barkley than there is in favour.

So far as a whole it would appear that those in favour in the 'arguments against' Barkley would be correct in their judgement regarding the level of performances and work rates as a whole that the player has delivered in his loan at Villa.

It has been evident for weeks that a change has been needed.

Dean Smith made the bold move yesterday of making those changes and it has paid off and we looked better for it too.

Apart from he scored the winning goal in one of those games and we fairly comfortably beat arsenal in another.  I think he deserved to be dropped but you can't just say we'd have done just as well without him in those games and better in others. 

 

[Vive_La_Villa]

3 minutes ago, DCJonah said:

Apart from he scored the winning goal in one of those games and we fairly comfortably beat arsenal in another.  I think he deserved to be dropped but you can't just say we'd have done just as well without him in those games and better in others. 

 

I genuinely think we would have played a  better all round game in every game he has played it since he returned had he not been playing. Yes he scored in one but for the most part he really has been a passenger. That doesn’t mean I’m criticising Smith as I understand why he played him to give him minutes in the hope he can again become the player we know he can be. But unfortunately it just hasn’t happened. 

[DCJonah]

Just now, Vive_La_Villa said:

I genuinely think we would have played a  better all round game in every game he has played it since he returned had he not been playing. Yes he scored in one but for the most part he really has been a passenger. That doesn’t mean I’m criticising Smith as I understand why he played him to give him minutes in the hope he can again become the player we know he can be. But unfortunately it just hasn’t happened. 

I'm very open to the idea that this could have been the case. But people are making out like everything would have been perfect had we just dropped Barkley. 

[sne]

Just now, DCJonah said:

I'm very open to the idea that this could have been the case. But people are making out like everything would have been perfect had we just dropped Barkley. 

I really don't think this is what's happening but each to their own I guess.

[Vive_La_Villa]

2 minutes ago, DCJonah said:

I'm very open to the idea that this could have been the case. But people are making out like everything would have been perfect had we just dropped Barkley. 

I know what you mean. It’s easy to say in hindsight but we could easily have dropped points (for whatever reason) and then the same people would be going nuts about Barkley not playing. 
 

I do think Leicester was one where he should have been dropped though. Maybe losing Jack is why he kept his place. 

[AvfcRigo82]

2 minutes ago, DCJonah said:

Apart from he scored the winning goal in one of those games and we fairly comfortably beat arsenal in another.  I think he deserved to be dropped but you can't just say we'd have done just as well without him in those games and better in others. 

 

We will never know. He was where it mattered when he scored those 2 goals. Very good, but it's still not been enough imo.

Over all his performances and attitude are not acceptable or been good enough for this football club and where we intend to go.

Continue to play those players that fight for the shirt and willing to bust a gut in games over those that fight with water bottles and look hard done by after being taken off for doing mere piss all for 70 minutes.

It's been good for the team that Dean Smith equally recognised this and acted on it.

[DCJonah]

27 minutes ago, sne said:

I really don't think this is what's happening but each to their own I guess.

Clearly they are. People are saying we'd have more points. 

[DCJonah]

21 minutes ago, AvfcRigo82 said:

We will never know. He was where it mattered when he scored those 2 goals. Very good, but it's still not been enough imo.

Over all his performances and attitude are not acceptable or been good enough for this football club and where we intend to go.

Continue to play those players that fight for the shirt and willing to bust a gut in games over those that fight with water bottles and look hard done by after being taken off for doing mere piss all for 70 minutes.

It's been good for the team that Dean Smith equally recognised this and acted on it.

I agree that Barkley hasn't been great and should rightly be dropped. I don't even disagree with the idea that we may have picked up points in other games. My point is, we can't just say all the good things that happened stay the same and then all bonus points get added on, if Smith had just done what VT wanted. 

[sne]

3 minutes ago, DCJonah said:

Clearly they are. People are saying we'd have more points. 

And that is the same as saying everything would have been perfect?

I'd agree with you if people where claiming we'd have equaled Man City for points if he hadn't started but they are not saying that.

Just that we might had taken more than we did. A point you seem to agree with from the looks of the post above. It's all speculation anyway but It's not like suggesting it is the same as foaming at the mouth "hysterics"

[AvfcRigo82]

8 minutes ago, DCJonah said:

My point is, we can't just say all the good things that happened stay the same and then all bonus points get added on, if Smith had just done what VT wanted. 

I mentioned before, that some posters on here have shown it's been evident change has been needed.

I think if last nights result is anything to go by then there is a fair argument for thinking we may have grabbed a couple more points perhaps in some our previous games of late. All a matter of opinions though.

Dean Smith acted on changing things.

I don't think his decision was based on the advice of a few VillaTalk opinions though.

 

Edited February 28, 2021 by AvfcRigo82

[DCJonah]

Just now, sne said:

And that is the same as saying everything would have been perfect?

I'd agree with you if people where claiming we'd have equaled Man City for points if he hadn't started but they are not saying that.

Just that we might had taken more than we did. A point you seem to agree with from the looks of the post above. It's all speculation anyway but It's not like suggesting it is the same as foaming at the mouth "hysterics"

Don't remember doing that. 

Of course we might have picked up points. Never disagreed with that, but as I said in my first post regarding this, the ones that seem to constantly question decisions never, ever contemplate the idea that it doesn't work or actually we might have dropped points in other games. 

 

[sne]

2 minutes ago, DCJonah said:

Don't remember doing that. 

Of course we might have picked up points. Never disagreed with that, but as I said in my first post regarding this, the ones that seem to constantly question decisions never, ever contemplate the idea that it doesn't work or actually we might have dropped points in other games. 

 

Again, I don't think that is correct for the most part.

[AvfcRigo82]

1 minute ago, DCJonah said:

Don't remember doing that. 

Of course we might have picked up points. Never disagreed with that, but as I said in my first post regarding this, the ones that seem to constantly question decisions never, ever contemplate the idea that it doesn't work or actually we might have dropped points in other games. 

 

We can't speak for all posters, but I for one couldn't see anyone coming in and doing any worse than what Barkley has shown of late.

I would see your point if we had suggested to play Taylor in that position instead..  thinking about that, I doubt it would have worked, so I would insist on playing Barkley instead and soldier on.

Instead, we made a like for like swap for a more younger, hungrier player.

[Adam2003]

29 minutes ago, AvfcRigo82 said:

We can't speak for all posters

Speak for yourself, don’t tell me what I can’t do

[tomav84]

1 hour ago, DCJonah said:

I just find it odd that we can be doing this well because of the decisions our coaching staff are making and still some people think they're holding us back. 

Maybe making those changes earlier leads to beating Brighton and Leicester. Maybe it leads to us losing to Southampton and Arsenal. 

The frustrating thing is that when people talk about the changes they want, they never, ever contemplate that maybe they don't work or actually maybe they'd have cost us points in the past.

It's always, the VT changes would have meant more points.

No one has a crystal ball. I personally feel like we'd have gotten more points in certain games gad we played Ramsey instead of barkley.  That might or might not be the case but we'll never know. It's just my opinion, and I stand by it 

[nick76]

33 minutes ago, AvfcRigo82 said:

We can't speak for all posters, but I for one couldn't see anyone coming in and doing any worse than what Barkley has shown of late.

Thank god Lansbury has left else I could’ve argued him to this point four weeks ago.

 

(Lansbury wasn’t in the official 25 man squad but but that could’ve of been amended in the January window if he had stayed but left on 29th.)

[nick76]

7 minutes ago, tomav84 said:

No one has a crystal ball. I personally feel like we'd have gotten more points in certain games gad we played Ramsey instead of barkley.  That might or might not be the case but we'll never know. It's just my opinion, and I stand by it 

I’m wondering if Barkley will be back in the week.  

I get the feeling played the team to nullify Leeds, he really didn’t like the “basketball game” as he called it so he played a very solid team.  

Given it’s Sheff Utd I guess he’ll go back to his favoured set up with Luiz and Barkley back.  Would be incredibly harsh on Ramsey and Nakamba.

[tomav84]

Just now, nick76 said:

I’m wondering if Barkley will be back in the week.  

I get the feeling played the team to nullify Leeds, he really didn’t like the “basketball game” as he called it so he played a very solid team.  

Given it’s Sheff Utd I guess he’ll go back to his favoured set up with Luiz and Barkley back.  Would be incredibly harsh on Ramsey and Nakamba.

i agree, it wouldn't surprise me at all to see the team changed back for sheff utd. i can definitely see him playing barkley both on wednesday and against newcastle in a couple of weeks, against sides that allow you time on the ball and don't work too hard in midfield. think there's definitely a case for barkley in those situations because he does have more of an end product than ramsey does at this moment.

but it would be harsh on marvelous in particular who has played a blinder last night, and in the other games he's played this season for that matter.