Dean Smith

[spiezels]

God, if trez could hit the target we’d be laughing 

[Rightdm00]

20 hours ago, villalad21 said:

Dean Smith has always been a "you score 3 we score 4 type of manager"

When you play that high line and bombing players forward you need a general at a back. A Van Dijk. Someone who reads the game well and anticipate danger.

We don't have that. Playing this way, unless you have world class players all over the pitch you will lose more than you'll win. We have a really decent team but Smith needs to adapt and tweak his system, it's what the best coaches do.

 

Yet just a couple days ago you were singing the praises of Hasenhuttl. Southampton play a very high defensive line and employ an aggressive press.

How many world class players do southampton have on the pitch?  Hasenhuttl's team concede a goal like the Welbeck one vs us almost weekly. They let Son score 4 similar versions in one game. Please don't take this as a rant against Hasnehuttl, I really enjoy his in your face/agressive style of play. Just would some consistency with how you breakdown managerial game styles. 

[Mjvilla]

1 hour ago, Rightdm00 said:

Yet just a couple days ago you were singing the praises of Hasenhuttl. Southampton play a very high defensive line and employ an aggressive press.

How many world class players do southampton have on the pitch?  Hasenhuttl's team concede a goal like the Welbeck one vs us almost weekly. They let Son score 4 similar versions in one game. Please don't take this as a rant against Hasnehuttl, I really enjoy his in your face/agressive style of play. Just would some consistency with how you breakdown managerial game styles. 

Imagine villa had lost 9-0 at home to Leicester. Hassenhuttl wouldn't have survived here... It really is a lesson for patience when criticising every goal conceded and every defeat after we dominate a game.

[villa4europe]

There's a piece in the athletic which I can't access due to not subscribing but it's on how every team in the PL is pressing less this season bar one... 

Pressing more and getting more touches in the oppositions penalty box, 2 substantial changes in our play this season 

[MrBlack]

1 hour ago, villa4europe said:

There's a piece in the athletic which I can't access due to not subscribing but it's on how every team in the PL is pressing less this season bar one... 

Pressing more and getting more touches in the oppositions penalty box, 2 substantial changes in our play this season 

I assume we started from a very low bar when it comes to pressing .

Be interesting to know if that is a relative call or an absolute call. I.e. are we pressing more than anyone else or just more than we used to.

If the latter then great,  if the former then we may find it hurts us later in the season with fatigue.

[villa4europe]

13 minutes ago, MrBlack said:

I assume we started from a very low bar when it comes to pressing .

Be interesting to know if that is a relative call or an absolute call. I.e. are we pressing more than anyone else or just more than we used to.

If the latter then great,  if the former then we may find it hurts us later in the season with fatigue.

Latter, we're 4th overall, Southampton, City and Liverpool press more than we do

There was an interesting analysis last season as to where on the pitch teams press too and I'm sure we were the deepest, that would make for good reading now 

The excuses for everyone else reducing how much they press seems to be no fans, too many games and only 3 subs 

Agree about the fatigue, that's why I'd like to see Nakamba get at least 5 to 10 mins in games, Leeds for example, no need for mcginn to play 90 the game was gone 

[Mjvilla]

7 minutes ago, villa4europe said:

Latter, we're 4th overall, Southampton, City and Liverpool press more than we do

There was an interesting analysis last season as to where on the pitch teams press too and I'm sure we were the deepest, that would make for good reading now 

The excuses for everyone else reducing how much they press seems to be no fans, too many games and only 3 subs 

Agree about the fatigue, that's why I'd like to see Nakamba get at least 5 to 10 mins in games, Leeds for example, no need for mcginn to play 90 the game was gone 

I thought we didn't press and allowed the opposition to play the game they want?

[TRO]

15 hours ago, nick76 said:

While it doesnt apply all the time I agree it does with Villa more often than it should.  We make so many silly errors at the back, which is not tactic based but just player error it's crazy.

bravo, for your honesty.

[TRO]

15 hours ago, Keyblade said:

Yes, that it's from a bygone era and doesn't apply anymore, if it ever even did.

This absolutley tickes the life out of me, the inference that everything has changed in football.....sure many things have, but many things also are the same as they was 100 years ago.

absolute poppycock of a statement.......One of the countries highest profile managers, makes a quote and you pour scorn on it....of course you would be right over Brian Clough anyway, wouldn't you.

I guess he was saying too often when folk cling to tactics, its the play himself needs more scrutiny, he wasn't saying tactics play no part......Brian just had a way of saying things as a quick retort to what he deemed as stupidity.

 

Edited December 10, 2020 by TRO

[TRO]

15 hours ago, Keyblade said:

I think some of it is tactics, such as having the fullbacks tucked in very narrow which led to goals started from wide positions. Or zonal marking of set pieces which led to 2 goals off the top of my head. Individual errors haven't been as costly, off the top of my head I guess you can say the free kicks that led to Ward-Prowse's goals were individual errors, and Brighton's first goal (even that I'd argue was a result of our tactics of squeezing Brighton up the pitch to disrupt their game).

but you don't really know that they were following instuctions from Dean......anymore than i think they got sucked towards the ball.

It was player error IMO on several counts, failure to win the duel was one, having too many players deployed to a routine press was another and a failure to be aware of opponents positioning.

Edited December 10, 2020 by TRO

[TRO]

14 hours ago, nick76 said:

Dont get me wrong I do believe we also have tactical errors (and I definitely agree about the tucked in fullbacks issue) but as Dave-R above mentions I think we have a number of individual mistakes and IMO more so than other teams at the moment.  I think that is because the players are still learning each other and many have played much at this level. 

Having the tactical and individual errors is a big issue at the moment and despite 4 clean sheets out of 9 and a top half of the table equivalent goals conceded record, we all know our defence needs a lot of work. 

Part of me thinks we just dont have a leader there.  Mings is prone to mistakes and while I love him i hate when he tries his Cruyff turns when he is expose.  Konsa is young and new to the league, Cash is new.  Emi has been around for a bit but as back up and Targett I really struggle with defensively.  There is no leader there and experience doesnt mean everything but sometimes I wish we had an experienced defender in there sometimes.

Leadership is a real issue for me....I think you are bang on.

Mings is also slow, to pick out the clear and present danger at set pieces, particularly corners......He should be picking up the tall players to negate their threat, but he rarely does......Vestergaard is a bit of a phenomenon, like a rugby version of jonah Lamu.....very hard to defend against in the air......but we must do better.

[Sam-AVFC]

37 minutes ago, TRO said:

This absolutley tickes the life out of me, the inference that everything has changed in football.....sure many things have, but many things also are the same as they was 100 years ago.

absolute poppycock of a statement.......One of the countries highest profile managers, makes a quote and you pour scorn on it....of course you would be right over Brian Clough anyway, wouldn't you.

I guess he was saying too often when folk cling to tactics, its the play himself needs more scrutiny, he wasn't saying tactics play no part......Brian just had a way of saying things as a quick retort to what he deemed as stupidity.

 

So you agree it didn't apply then, it was a snappy soundbite to emphasise a point.

[TRO]

38 minutes ago, Sam-AVFC said:

So you agree it didn't apply then, it was a snappy soundbite to emphasise a point.

No, It did apply, in the context that he meant it.......It was a snappy soundbite to emphasis a point. He was making a point.....maybe you just don't get his point?

just in the same way proverbs are used i.e "a stitch in time, saves nine".....or ephigrams, aphorisms and analogies.

 

 

Edited December 10, 2020 by TRO

[TRO]

15 hours ago, nick76 said:

Dont get me wrong I do believe we also have tactical errors (and I definitely agree about the tucked in fullbacks issue) but as Dave-R above mentions I think we have a number of individual mistakes and IMO more so than other teams at the moment.  I think that is because the players are still learning each other and many have played much at this level. 

Having the tactical and individual errors is a big issue at the moment and despite 4 clean sheets out of 9 and a top half of the table equivalent goals conceded record, we all know our defence needs a lot of work. 

Part of me thinks we just dont have a leader there.  Mings is prone to mistakes and while I love him i hate when he tries his Cruyff turns when he is expose.  Konsa is young and new to the league, Cash is new.  Emi has been around for a bit but as back up and Targett I really struggle with defensively.  There is no leader there and experience doesnt mean everything but sometimes I wish we had an experienced defender in there sometimes.

https://spartacus-educational.com/Ftactics.htm

Have a read of this Nick, you might find it interesting.....its shows, how football and even tactics have changed and been worked on, in all that time.....a fair bit about Early Villa too.

Football for me is an ever changing dynamic that will continue evolving, but some fundamental things in the game remain as they did.

[Sam-AVFC]

8 minutes ago, TRO said:

No, It did apply, in the context that he meant it.......It was a snappy soundbite to emphasis a point. He was making a point.....maybe you just don't get his point?

just in the same way proverbs are used i.e "a stitch in time, saves nine".....or ephigrams, aphorisms and analogies.

 

 

I get his point. 

Come back and explain basic linguistic tools to me when you've wrapped your head around 'passive aggressive'. 

[TRO]

6 hours ago, Rightdm00 said:

Yet just a couple days ago you were singing the praises of Hasenhuttl. Southampton play a very high defensive line and employ an aggressive press.

How many world class players do southampton have on the pitch?  Hasenhuttl's team concede a goal like the Welbeck one vs us almost weekly. They let Son score 4 similar versions in one game. Please don't take this as a rant against Hasnehuttl, I really enjoy his in your face/agressive style of play. Just would some consistency with how you breakdown managerial game styles. 

Its rare a manager will be good at everything...in football or otherwise.

Its more a case of trying to get better ourselves and highlighting things other clubs do well.

is it really worth commenting on the things other clubs do badly.....how can we learn from that, so we just ignore those things.

In doing that....its is not to glean that we think every other club does everything right and we do everything wrong......that would be called missing the point.....its simply getting the best of everything thats available.

Edited December 10, 2020 by TRO

[sparrow1988]

11 minutes ago, TRO said:

No, It did apply, in the context that he meant it.......It was a snappy soundbite to emphasis a point. He was making a point.....maybe you just don't get his point?

just in the same way proverbs are used i.e "a stitch in time, saves nine".....or ephigrams, aphorisms and analogies.

 

 

What was the context of the quote though? Was he just after making a few bad decisions and was looking to deflect blame to someone other than him? As well as being a fantastic manager, he was also a master at that type of stuff don't forget.

Or was it really that the players hadn't performed? Was it his tactical decisions which resulted in the players not performing?

[TRO]

36 minutes ago, Sam-AVFC said:

I get his point. 

Come back and explain basic linguistic tools to me when you've wrapped your head around 'passive aggressive'. 

you are drifting mate. I am a Villa Supporter, not a university graduate, versed in the arts of academics, my comments are of an empirical nature......I may make a typo or a spelling mistake too, pick flies out of that, if it "floats your boat"

 

Quote:

Passive-aggressive behaviors are those that involve acting indirectly aggressive rather than directly aggressive. Passive-aggressive people regularly exhibit resistance to requests or demands from family and other individuals often by procrastinating, expressing sullenness, or acting stubborn.

Where does that apply to me?....I have answered ( to a fault and at an expense of repeating myself or labouring points) every poster who has called out my comments.

If you have to resort to this nonsense....ignore my posts.

Ps Its not an exclamation, I would ever use, because for me passive is passive and aggressive is aggressive, they are antonyms IMO.....but what would I know?

 

 

 

Edited December 10, 2020 by TRO

[TRO]

33 minutes ago, sparrow1988 said:

What was the context of the quote though? Was he just after making a few bad decisions and was looking to deflect blame to someone other than him? As well as being a fantastic manager, he was also a master at that type of stuff don't forget.

Or was it really that the players hadn't performed? Was it his tactical decisions which resulted in the players not performing?

this is where it gets deep....I really don't know, I just took it at face value...I can't second guess his motives.....There are tons of quotes from many of the great managers....in a similar vane.

Ian St John, once said to Shankly on one of his early games " what do you want me to do boss"   shankly said " just put the ball in the net and we will talk about the options later"......Now I wouldn't believe from that, that Bill was that superficial with detail.....but the point was, it does remind us of the main objective.......sometimes things said in wit are received more readily, but still retaining the point being made.

I guess it comes back to, you believe, what you want to believe and that is aimed at us all, inc me.

rarely in life is there a fool proof way or a single way of doing anything, so opinions do exist.

Edited December 10, 2020 by TRO

[sparrow1988]

27 minutes ago, TRO said:

this is where it gets deep....I really don't know, I just took it at face value...I can't second guess his motives.....There are tons of quotes from many of the great managers....in a similar vane.

Ian St John, once said to Shankly on one of his early games " what do you want me to do boss"   shankly said " just put the ball in the net and we will talk about the options later"......Now I wouldn't believe from that, that Bill was that superficial with detail.....but the point was, it does remind us of the main objective.......sometimes things said in wit are received more readily, but still retaining the point being made.

I guess it comes back to, you believe, what you want to believe and that is aimed at us all, inc me.

rarely in life is there a fool proof way or a single way of doing anything, so opinions do exist.

I never take anything at face value.