Dean Smith

[Vive_La_Villa]

25 minutes ago, MrBlack said:

I'd guess it backs up the comments being made here that we've largely been unlucky in the games we've lost.  Throw in the hammerings we've dished out, the fact that most teams have been a bit hit and miss all season,  and I can see how it would put us close to the top 

Yeh but hearing some on here you’d think we should be close to the bottom. 

[handsworthvilla]

1 hour ago, villalad21 said:

We conceded the most amount of goals from set pieces last season and already conceded 2 so far this season. It's poor.

We are soft. We don't aticipate the danger and we are often caught ballwatching. It always feels dangerous to me when we are defending a set piece. Either they score or create a decent chance from it. Our defenders are certainly not attacking the ball in our own box.

Mings is the one who is capable doing it but with this zonal marking thing he isn't where he needs to be.

The whole point of zonal marking is so that key players like Mings are placed exactly where they need to be 

Zonal marking is one of those things that is always held up to blame when a team concede from a corner, but you never hear of it being praised when a team goes games without conceding from a set piece. Its only when a goal goes in that suddenly zonal marking is obviously to blame. 

There's a reason that pretty much every team uses a mix of zonal and man marking - it has been proven statistically to work better than straight man to man marking. 

[nick76]

3 hours ago, villalad21 said:

We conceded the most amount of goals from set pieces last season and already conceded 2 so far this season. It's poor.

We are soft. We don't aticipate the danger and we are often caught ballwatching. It always feels dangerous to me when we are defending a set piece. Either they score or create a decent chance from it. Our defenders are certainly not attacking the ball in our own box.

Mings is the one who is capable doing it but with this zonal marking thing he isn't where he needs to be.

We also have the fourth best goals against record in the league as well along with 4 clean sheets out of 9, which is close to 50%.  I agree we have some real defensive issues and our naivety and mistakes are killing us in some games which we have to sort out but just like we started the season incredibly well, we have had a run of bad games and i'm sure we'll soon have a run of great games and then a run of bad games again. 

I think it is just showing us we, as we all knew, are a mid table team at best and we need to grow organically with more training together and more time together or go out in the transfer windows and use our financial clout to get in a player or two.  We also have to remember that the defence is still fairly new to each other, starting with Emi and Matty into the team.  Additionally to that Mings and Konsa, really are a new partnership having probably only played 20-30 or so premier league games together in this current run and Konsa is fairly new to the PL as despite the need of the current generation of everything needed instantly, Konsa only has 32 league games under his belt, which isnt that many. 

 

I think we forget how little experience some of our players have at this level.

[Dave-R]

4 hours ago, MrBlack said:

I'd guess it backs up the comments being made here that we've largely been unlucky in the games we've lost.  Throw in the hammerings we've dished out, the fact that most teams have been a bit hit and miss all season,  and I can see how it would put us close to the top 

I think its plain obvious that the games we have lost that if we had of been more lucky in our shots on target translating to goals, our games would of mostly turned to wins and we'd be further up the table.

As others have said Leeds we deserved to lose that game because we were pants and were tired as hell, but I've not see a game we were outplayed on the field by opposition yet, have you??

As I said first para, we just need our firing line to start getting our chances in goal more and making what we throw as opposition count or we will continue I'm afraid to have games that we lose because of missed opportunities.

[Dave-R]

4 hours ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

Yeh but hearing some on here you’d think we should be close to the bottom. 

No they say and I agree that the season we had last year that anything on top of that is an improvement. So if were a couple of places better off we really shouldn't be expecting a massive improvement because we have had to improve in a totally different way as to what other teams have.

In my eyes if we get a top half finish that's absolutely terrific, yet if we end up in bottom half I would not be mad at all, in fact so long as it's us taking steps forward then I'll be happy as anyone to be honest.

Edited December 8, 2020 by Dave-R

[MrBlack]

54 minutes ago, Dave-R said:

I think its plain obvious that the games we have lost that if we had of been more lucky in our shots on target translating to goals, our games would of mostly turned to wins and we'd be further up the table.

As others have said Leeds we deserved to lose that game because we were pants and were tired as hell, but I've not see a game we were outplayed on the field by opposition yet, have you??

As I said first para, we just need our firing line to start getting our chances in goal more and making what we throw as opposition count or we will continue I'm afraid to have games that we lose because of missed opportunities.

Agreed. Only the Leeds game where we inexplicably failed to turn up.  Even that had an element of bad luck to it with the cheat Bamford getting lucky,  but we never looked like scoring.

[WallisFrizz]

6 hours ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

I don’t get how Whoscored works but we are the top rated team both defensive and offensive!  Although we have played 2 games less to be fair. 

The main content person for Whoscored is a massive Villa fan (Martin Laurence on Twitter). Even last season, our players were scoring far more favourably than I would have expected. 

[TRO]

22 hours ago, Tomaszk said:

Brighton lost though.

They must have been poor, that's how it works isn't it? They just didn't close down hard enough.

Funnily enough they've drawn to West Brom and Burnley this season. Wonder what happened there? They are bad results. Perhaps they didn't have a screamer fly in in those games? Perhaps they didn't get a very favourable VAR call?

I've never seen a fan with such grass is greener syndrome. 

 

 

I'm talking about the ability to stop the opposition, is that so hard to understand.....baring a Var call it could have been a draw.....did you not notice the challenges going in, or is that too much for you to comprehend....Brighton did well to keep a vibrant Southampton, relatively quiet.....If you can't see the virtues, of that, no point talking.

Quite frankly, I don't know what you are rambling on about at times....whats West Brom and Burnley got to do with it?.....I was talking about this game, not their season.

I was pin pointing a feature of both teams games.....not their whole full compliment.

I've never seen a fan with such Red for embarrasment.....I was talking about defending and you go off on a tangent waffling about anything and everything that bears no relation.

I think you need to go on the Graham Norton show and get the " Chair" 

Edited December 8, 2020 by TRO

[TRO]

20 hours ago, Tomaszk said:

I can't help you if you're going to say we'll be conceding screamers every week. How can you think that's true? Sheffield Utd are bottom with one point do you think they concede them every game? Fulham? Albion? Any team bottom of their league? 

I fear you're being led astray by a Leeds fan pretending to be a Villa fan on here.

desperate response, when you run out of sensible things to say. I've probably got stuck in the turnstiles more time that you have been to Villa Park.

If you are happy conceding as many goals as we have in the last 4 defeats, fine......but don't keep denying them like some sort of unstoppable force has landed against us.

I have never seen you make one meaningful reference to the defending side of our game as if it just does'nt exist......Even the eplanalysis makes reference in their conclusion of the West Ham game that we need to defend better.....but Oh No!! not you, you know best don't you?

Lets just hope the lads rescue your argument against Wolves and score more than we concede.

[TRO]

12 hours ago, weedman said:

I don't think that's how it works. We're conceding shots that have like a 5% chance of being a goal and the vast majority of them are going in at the moment. It's not sustainable and unless your argument is that the opposition should never have a shot on goal against us again I don't see what the issue is. 

Other teams will have shots against us in virtually every game from now until the end of time. The idea is to ensure that those shots have as small a chance as possible of becoming a goal. We're doing that and that is shown by our very low xG against. They just all happen to be flying in at the moment. Eventually this luck will even itself out. 

You really seem fixated on the negatives at the moment and refuse to hear any mitigation despite the circumstances being clear. I suppose it's easier to see goal conceded and assume that equals poor defending I guess. 

When there has been so many, I guess ,I have  a choice.......lets just pick out 1.

When John Mcginn fails to stop the run of Angelo Ogunna, is there any wonder, we are 1-0 after 2 minutes.....If you fail to see the error, I can't help you mate.....What is it you want, Jack to emulate Maradona, to keep us winning?

I have already said until I am blue in the face, some of the offensive work has been fine......The defensive work seems to be a taboo subject on here.

These magical shots you talk about are delivered against other teams too.....just that they do their best to get their foot in and deflect them, not saying everyone is defendable, but some are.

are you suggesting that we are just unlucky and that all the Worldies are saved up against us?, if you are, I suggest you watch the games back again.....We ball watch and stand off, which gives the opposition, licence to shoot.....they are all good, if you let them be.

Edited December 8, 2020 by TRO

[TRO]

11 hours ago, tom_avfc said:

This is a strange post. Southampton broke the deadlock with a Vestergard header which has been put down to poor defending by us but for Brighton we're just going to allow it.

There's not much danger of "Worldies" in many football games - they don't happen often which is why such a big deal is made of them. To say that we should legislate for Ward-Prowse banging two free kicks into top corners and Ings smashing one in off the bar is a strange way of viewing football matches.

Incidentally, the one goal that we conceded against both of these teams which was most concerning to me was the opening Brighton goal which was caused by complete defensive naivety.

If teams continue to score goals like Ward-Prowse, Ings and March have scored past us this season then we'd have to be the unluckiest team in Premier League history. If someone like March was capable of scoring that shot on more than about 1 in 50 attempts then he wouldn't be playing for Brighton.

• It is most likely to be a strange post, when you apportion very little focus on Defence, it can't all be candy, a game is about many factors.
• Maybe you should be looking at the feeble efforts that led to the free kicks, is more like , what I am talking about.....but you probably never picked that up, that was my point, you failed to grasp what I am saying and get all frustrated.
• No the worldies are all saved for us.....ludicrous.
• so after all the questioning of my comments on defending....you finally admit what, I have been highlighting......its hard work mate.
• I am not sure what you are saying in your last line?......They are capable of doing that if you afford them space in the danger zones, and Son and Kane could do it too.....what do you want to do, play in the championship, where they are unlikely to score them worldies.....its called defending mate, in the big boys league, you have to be good at it, else them goals become frequent......when they pull the trigger, its all too late, you have to get touch tight, that is the target.

How come we managed to concede 2 goals in the first 4 games, which was great by the way.......and now we can't.....whats your theory?

Edited December 8, 2020 by TRO

[tom_avfc]

10 minutes ago, TRO said:

• It is most likely to be a strange post, when you apportion very little focus on Defence, it can't all be candy a game is about many factors.
• Maybe you should be looking at the feeble efforts that led to the free kicks, is more like , what I am talking about.....but you probably never picked that up, that was my point, you failed to grasp what I am saying and get all frustrated.
• No the worldies are all saved for us.....ludicrous.
• so after all the questioning of my comments on defending....you finally admit what, I have been highlighting......its hard work mate.
• I am not sure what you are saying in your last line?......They are capable of doing that if you afford them space in the danger zones, and Son and Kane could do it too.....what do you want to do, play in the championship, where they are unlikely to score them worldies.....its called defending mate, in the big boys league, you have to be good at it, else them goals become frequent......when they pull the trigger, its all too late.

I’m not for one second suggesting we couldn’t improve defensively. The goals which you’ve picked to highlight our defensive issues are goals that wouldn’t go in 9 times out of 10.

Can you find me Solly March’s highlights reel of goals stuck into the top corner on his weaker foot from the edge of the box?

As I’ve said earlier, Ward-Prowse has scored a grand total of 8 free kicks and 2 of them were in that game against us. If you think we’re going to go 90 minutes without conceding a free kick near our own box or a few shots with a 10% chance of scoring then you’re asking for defensive perfection every match.

If you were picking out the first Brighton goal or the goals conceded against West Ham to support your argument then I’d see your point. To bemoan our defending for players scoring some of these goals is strange.

As for how we were able to defend and now we can’t I’d have thought that the fact that teams have been scoring with chances with minimal likelihood of scoring probably helps to explain that a little bit too.

As for the general passive aggressiveness of your lovely bullet points, I’ll call it a day with this reply and agree to disagree.

Edited December 8, 2020 by tom_avfc

[TRO]

22 hours ago, VillaChris said:

Steady on....Brighton still going to be 5 points off us with two extra games played so we've still done plenty of good things so far this season.

Was holding they'd hold Saints to a draw though as they're another starting to get a bit of daylight ahead of us in the table.

Nobody is saying Chris, we haven't done good things.....its just that there seems a reluctance to talk about the things we could do better, in fear of sounding ungrateful for what we have done.

Imagine if the players responded in the same way, when the manager is trying to tighten us up......."Oh Boss, we beat Liverpool 7-2 and Arsenal 3-0 aren't you satisfied"

That is not what is being said by me Chris.....but thats what is being gleaned and interpreted.

[TRO]

13 hours ago, tom_avfc said:

I’m not for one second suggesting we couldn’t improve defensively. The goals which you’ve picked to highlight our defensive issues are goals that wouldn’t go in 9 times out of 10.

Can you find me Solly March’s highlights reel of goals stuck into the top corner on his weaker foot from the edge of the box?

As I’ve said earlier, Ward-Prowse has scored a grand total of 8 free kicks and 2 of them were in that game against us. If you think we’re going to go 90 minutes without conceding a free kick near our own box or a few shots with a 10% chance of scoring then you’re asking for defensive perfection every match.

If you were picking out the first Brighton goal or the goals conceded against West Ham to support your argument then I’d see your point. To bemoan our defending for players scoring some of these goals is strange.

As for the general passive aggressiveness of your lovely bullet points, I’ll call it a day with this reply and agree to disagree.

• so what are we are arguing about.....we have conceded 11 goals in 4 games.
• You are arguing Solly March is not capabale of scoring those goals regularly, I am not disputing that......what I am saying is if you don't close down the space they need to do that, they are capable as he eloquently executed and we duly obliged the space.....closing down space is not necessarily Defending perfection as you exaggerated, its what good consistent teams do.....yeah lets hope we improve, like the first 4 games.
• If you think allowing opponents large chunks of space unchallenged, will prevent top players from scoring great goals on the laws of averages that they don't come along too often...I suggest you think again my friend....we are in the premier league now.
• I am not picking out any goals to support my argument, 11 is too many for comfort.....you have already said yourself that we can improve defensively , of course we can, we did it in the first 4 games, but you are seeking to call out which goals in order to support your strawman argument.

I think we should call it a day.....never heard of bullet points being aggressive or passive which is an antonym anyway......its merely done for clarity, more fool me.

Edited December 9, 2020 by TRO

[WallisFrizz]

I don’t think our defending has declined over the past few games I just think we defensively flattered to deceive in the first four games:

10 man Sheff Utd who had backs to the wall

Fulham who were dreadful.

Liverpool- we conceded 2

Leicester- without Jamie Vardy and one of the least creative sides in the prem this season.

 

[MrBlack]

1 hour ago, TRO said:

• so what are we are arguing about.....we have conceded 11 goals in 4 games.
• You are arguing Solly March is not capabale of scoring those goals regularly, I am not disputing that......what I am saying is if you don't clase down the space they need to do that, they are capable as he eloquently executed and we duly obliged the space.....closing down space is not necessarily Defending perfection as you exaggerated, its what good consistent teams do.....yeah lets hope we improve, like the first 4 games.
• If you think allowing opponents large chunks of space unchallenged, will prevent top players from scoring great goals on the laws of averages that they don't come along too often...I suggest you think again my friend....we are in the premier league now.
• I am not picking out any goals to support my argument, 11 is too many for comfort.....you have already said yourself that we can improve defensively , of course we can, we did it in the first 4 games, but you are seeking to call out which goals in order to support your strawman argument.

I think we should call it a day.....never heard of bullet points being aggressive or passive which is an antonym anyway......its merely done for clarity, more fool me.

Minor grammatical point...Paragraphs work just as well as a bullet point when the bullet point is more than a sentence long. Putting paragraphs into a bullet is probably passive aggressive because it's an incorrect use of the tool. 

Back to football,  what is your view on the fact whoscored seems to think we're the best defensive team in the league, taking all defensive stats into account as well as goals conceded?

[weedman]

2 hours ago, TRO said:

When John Mcginn fails to stop the run of Angelo Ogunna, is there any wonder, we are 1-0 after 2 minutes.....If you fail to see the error, I can't help you mate.....What is it you want, Jack to emulate Maradona, to keep us winning?

I don't think I've seen anyone suggest that wasn't a mistake? I really can't be bothered to go back and re-read so I'll take your word for it that people have and agree that they are wrong. It was an error by McGinn for sure. 

And the mitigating circumstance. It was a one off error, whatever coaching has taken place since lockdown has seen us improve dramatically at set pieces. Every team will concede from a set piece now and then, and I think it was pointed out that we've conceded from 2 this season, making us one of, if not the best in the league at defending them. 

2 hours ago, TRO said:

These magical shots you talk about are delivered against other teams too.....just that they do their best to get their foot in and deflect them, not saying everyone is defendable, but some are.

are you suggesting that we are just unlucky and that all the Worldies are saved up against us?, if you are, I suggest you watch the games back again.....We ball watch and stand off, which gives the opposition, licence to shoot.....they are all good, if you let them be.

I really don't know what to make of this. You're right, these worldies ARE delivered against other teams too, no-one is arguing that, what we are saying, and please try and take this bit in and not simply skim over it, is that the rate these goals are going in against us is incredibly lucky/unlucky depending on who you support.

Every team scores the odd "low percentage" goal now and then, every team concedes them too, but to concede several in consecutive games is very unlucky.

We've conceded a goal with virtually every shot on target against us in the last few games, and there is not 1 you can look at our keeper and say he should have saved that. If you can't see that as being unsustainable then you're deliberately ignoring it

2 hours ago, TRO said:

The defensive work seems to be a taboo subject on here.

This really irritates me. It's not a taboo subject, but when you constantly post the same criticisms over and over and over again regardless of what's actually happening and repeatedly completely ignore any points that contradict your opinion it becomes such a chore.

Honestly I blocked villalad because he's an obvious troll and you seem to be just about the only person on this forum consistently agreeing with him, what does that tell you? 

You say that defensive work seems to be a taboo subject on here, well nobody wants to discuss it with you because you completely ignore anything that doesn't suit your argument. No-one is saying we haven't made mistakes, no-one is saying there's no areas of our defence we could improve, no-one is saying we're perfect. We are all agreeing with you on those points, what most people see though is that we have improved so much so quickly, have a young, inexperienced team and can accept that the occasional lapse or mistake is pretty much par for the course.

You seem unable to see past win=good, loss=bad and big 6ft5 defensive midfielder who can also play like prime Viera is what we need immediately (ignoring the fact that if that player existed he'd cost as much as Jack) 

[Tomaszk]

3 hours ago, TRO said:

I think you need to go on the Graham Norton show and get the " Chair" 

Plenty of tales for that chair.

14 hours ago, weedman said:

You really seem fixated on the negatives at the moment and refuse to hear any mitigation despite the circumstances being clear. I suppose it's easier to see goal conceded and assume that equals poor defending I guess. 

I agree.

Other teams concede goals as well.

And yet as tom_avfc says...

13 hours ago, tom_avfc said:

Southampton broke the deadlock with a Vestergard header which has been put down to poor defending by us but for Brighton we're just going to allow it.

Bang on.

We played OK v Brighton but conceded a screamer and had a dodgy VAR call against us. Saints were OK against Brighton but conceded zero screamers and had dodgy VAR call in their favour. We lost 2-1, they won 2-1, fine margins, we go again.

Frustrating but we'll have some go our way if we continue to play the way we have been overall. We can defend better, but right now we should also be scoring more purely on the balance of play.

Is there work to do? Christ yes. We can improve at everything. Loads of holes in our squad, in our play, especially defensively.

I'm taking performances for what they were. Not saying oh we lost, we were crap and don't defend as well as XYZ. Other teams lose games as well. 

Blocking the trolls really improves this site. One in particular has been a scourge for a long time and is spreading a ridiculous amount of negativity.

3 hours ago, TRO said:

I've probably got stuck in the turnstiles more time that you have been to Villa Park.

Guarantee you have more times than villalad21 has.

[Vive_La_Villa]

We’ve got areas the team need to continue to work on and club need to try and improve. That’s why we are currently mid-table in the league. If we didn’t need this improvement we’d be challenging for the title. 

It’s fair to discuss the issues costing us wins but I see a lot more to be positive about than negative. I’m really enjoying the way we attack teams and looking forward to each game. 
 

Bring on Wolves!

edit: I’m actually a lot more concerned about our lack of squad depth than any defensive frailties. A few injuries and we really will struggle.  

Edited December 9, 2020 by Vive_La_Villa

[sparrow1988]

With regards to being unlucky/lucky, the Athletic has an article where it publishes a table with the difference between xG for/against and actual for/against for the season up until now. Apparently we are outperforming our xG for (we should have 4.7 less goals) and we are underperforming regarding our xG against (we should have conceded 2.2 goals less than we have).

So according to this we've actually been lucky in front of goal (Liverpool game makes most of the difference here I'd imagine) and unlucky in defence.