Dean Smith

[TRO]

1 hour ago, ciggiesnbeer said:

Strongly agree by the way relegation is an opportunity to reset and invest in a top manager. Fans have been crying out for a progressive attacking manager for years. Lets go for a genuinely great manager hire rather than spending money elsewhere.

Its not a progressive manager, we need, whatever one of them means.....its a winning manager we want.

Its a mature business, most things have been thought of and used at some stage in world football....managers rarely think of something new, its all been done somewhere and at sometime.

I look at Liverpool and Man City and the talent disguises the work rate, the intensity and the drive, the relentless pursuit of winning, sure they have skill in abundance, but without the aforementioned, they would be like Arsenal.

Its about settling on a style and buying the right players to fit that style, that delivers winning football....its about creating and developing a mentality of winning....its about denying the opposition an opportunity to impose their game.....its about every player seizing the initiative in every game....its about players with an appetite to work and forage and fight and applying their talent to meaningful affect.....and a manager to promote all of that.

its also about a contrast of players, not all too samey.

Edited June 22, 2020 by TRO

[villalad21]

Just now, TRO said:

Its not a progressive manager, we need, whatever one of them means.....its a winning manager we want.

Its a mature business, most things have been thought of and used at some stage in world football....managers rarely think of something new, its all been done somewhere and at sometime.

I look at Liverpool and Man City and the talent disguises the work rate, the intensity and the drive, the relentless pursuit of winning, sure they have skill in abundance, but without the aforementioned, they would be like Arsenal.

Its about settling on a style and buying the right players to fit that style, that delivers winning football....its about creating and developing a mentality of winning....its about denying the opposition an opportunity to impose their game.....its about every player seizing the initiative in every game....its about players with an appetite to work and forage and fight.

Do you care about style of play or is winning all that matter to you regardless of playing style?

Just curious.

[Eastie]

27 minutes ago, TRO said:

The way we are playing, only Jack will get the move he wants...he has probably, just done enough.

The rest have put doubts in minds, they need to resurrect their form, to get interest.

Mings mcginn and luiz would go I think 

[VillaFaninLondon]

17 minutes ago, ciggiesnbeer said:

I would be delighted if he stayed. he has a relegation clause according to dean Smith, same as all our new players, so he would be earning a lot less. If someone of Ming's quality wants to stick with us through relegation and take his pay cut then hats off to him. 

I certainly see what you're saying, especially on the pay cut thing. However, as much as Mings helped us get promoted last season, we resurrected his career: he wasn't even getting in Bournemouth's team when we got him, let alone the England squad. And whilst he has struggled with the step up this season and made some bad mistakes, he still has a good relationship with the fans. 

 

It's possible he along with McGinn, Heaton and others will stay if we go down. Fulham went down last season and still kept Mitrovic and Cairney who in all reality could have got a move to a PL team I'm sure. 

[VillaFaninLondon]

30 minutes ago, TRO said:

The way we are playing, only Jack will get the move he wants...he has probably, just done enough.

The rest have put doubts in minds, they need to resurrect their form, to get interest.

Jack has certainly done enough and it's possibly all agreed the way he's been playing. Jack also gets a lot of hype in the national press and the tabloids have loved linking him with a move to Man Yoo which has almost certainly distracted him....c***s. 

[TRO]

28 minutes ago, villalad21 said:

When i think about it i agree with the attacking manager point. We just need someone better who can continue with what Smith has tried to do.

If we hire a coach like Allardyce we would have to build a completely different team. We need to stay on the same course but change the wheels.

I don't see it like that.....I don't think its right to label them as attacking managers or defensive managers....its too single dimensional, for me.

We want winning managers, they recognise that a game requires both elements....The dynamics demand  that teams have their moments and the ones who seize the initiative and impose themselves have more attacking moments...and raise the odds of winning. they also recognise that in retreat, their teams are organised, resolute and make it difficult for them to gain momentum....amongst many other things....they nullify threats as part of the the teams make up or DNA.

winning managers prime function is to win and secondly not to lose....they take on a mantra of hard to beat, to give them the platform to win.

winning becomes indoctinated in these types and everthing they do is geared to it....to have a consistently high win ratio, you have to have mastered many aspects of the game.

Winning is not a single style, its a series of disciplines and techniques that executed consistently culminate in an expectation of the end product.....its a mentality.

We need a manager who has a record of winning, not necessarily at the top level, but has learned all the disciplines that have landed him there and willing to test himself with us.

Edited June 22, 2020 by TRO

[Dave-R]

39 minutes ago, ciggiesnbeer said:

I would be delighted if he stayed. he has a relegation clause according to dean Smith, same as all our new players, so he would be earning a lot less. If someone of Ming's quality wants to stick with us through relegation and take his pay cut then hats off to him. 

What all our new players have a relegation clause, thank God for that then let's get the Fk down there right now.

At this rate a complete restart is looking the best of the options, were going down so losing Grealish, Mings,  Heaton, Mcginn, basically the players that make the difference are going to leave. The only good side is that at least the club will profit from the sales of the players.

But I won't be sad to see many of the new players leave, they just have not done enough to even deserve to be here apart from Luiz these past couple of games.

Edited June 22, 2020 by Dave-R

[mykeyb]

Steve Bruce after watching our first two games back can probably repeat what has happened so far. We play with one up top who may be difficult to play against but isn't really a goal threat so can be left to the two CBs to cover. He can push his full backs further up the pitch so his wide players can pin our full backs right back and the our wide men are on defensive rather than offensive. Then we don't really have an out ball because the midfielders don't want it and Davis has no support.

If he doesn't change it for Wednesday then he obviously hasn't got a clue.

[villalad21]

Relegation clause?? Ffs. Woeful run club.

[useless]

Relegation clauses are a sign of a well run club, we don't want to be saddled with a massive wage bill if we go down. If we want to keep Mings and he wanted to stay we could negociate his contract anew if need be, same with any other player.

[sheepyvillian]

2 hours ago, TRO said:

He is one of the few with a mean attitude......we need that running through the team.

A mean attitude is Martin Keown, I don't see that in Mings. He's far too profligate for this level.

[TRO]

1 hour ago, villalad21 said:

Do you care about style of play or is winning all that matter to you regardless of playing style?

Just curious.

I just believe the foundations need to be put in before the roof goes on.

I believe the chassis needs to be in place before the bodywork is fitted.

Attacking football is great, its what we all want to see....but if the chassis is made of putty or the foundations made of mashmallow, the attackers have to come back to defend too many times.

The most natural instinct in football is to defend....attackers have to be confident they have a platform to work off....not to have to track back, to burn unnecessary energy, after every sorte....they soon lose energy and confidence evaporates.

We have a team not set up to control, contain or curtail the opposition....you have to win the right to play football, we think we can without earning the right.....so we have little pockets of light that we rely on to score.....we need players to do both.

In the championship players make mistakes that you can capitalise on to win possession or they are slow and you can intercept.....in this league, you have to press and turn the ball over by winning duels....to do that, you have to work hard and have an engine, you have to have a will, determination and drive to win the ball and be personally offended if you don't....you have to show a natural level of aggression that takes you to these places......I don't see that in most of our players.

 

Edited June 22, 2020 by TRO

[TRO]

12 minutes ago, sheepyvillian said:

A mean attitude is Martin Keown, I don't see that in Mings. He's far too profligate for this level.

Or Shaun Teale.....another example of a modest transfer fee.....sure it was years ago, but it is still happening, today.

Edited June 22, 2020 by TRO

[TRO]

Dean has managed to put one over on Steve so often.

now is the real time to do it.

I hope he can capitalise on his record and drive home that advantage.

seize the moment Dean.

Edited June 22, 2020 by TRO

[Adam2003]

1 hour ago, Eastie said:

Mings mcginn and luiz would go I think 

Agreed, those three plus Grealish for sure. Still think we would romp the Championship with whatever was left. But I hope it doesn’t come to it and they can pull some points out of the bag.

[hippo]

1 hour ago, TRO said:

Its not a progressive manager, we need, whatever one of them means.....its a winning manager we want.

Its a mature business, most things have been thought of and used at some stage in world football....managers rarely think of something new, its all been done somewhere and at sometime.

I look at Liverpool and Man City and the talent disguises the work rate, the intensity and the drive, the relentless pursuit of winning, sure they have skill in abundance, but without the aforementioned, they would be like Arsenal.

Its about settling on a style and buying the right players to fit that style, that delivers winning football....its about creating and developing a mentality of winning....its about denying the opposition an opportunity to impose their game.....its about every player seizing the initiative in every game....its about players with an appetite to work and forage and fight and applying their talent to meaningful affect.....and a manager to promote all of that.

its also about a contrast of players, not all too samey.

The top clubs target the manager they want and shift heaven and earth to get him. For some reason when the managerial hunt starts to get tough - villa take the easy option....and it's has been the ruination of our club.

Until that changes we seem destined to be a championship club for a good while. Taking nothing away from DS and his promotion - but there were a number of things that fell in our favour that season, that won't neccesrily happen again.

  

 

[TRO]

8 minutes ago, hippo said:

The top clubs target the manager they want and shift heaven and earth to get him. For some reason when the managerial hunt starts to get tough - villa take the easy option....and it's has been the ruination of our club.

Until that changes we seem destined to be a championship club for a good while. Taking nothing away from DS and his promotion - but there were a number of things that fell in our favour that season, that won't neccesrily happen again.

  

 

I totally agree with that.

but they are not sure enough of what they want in the first place.

but sadly it happens with players too, we are not determined enough to get the players we want.....we settle for the easy option.

[hippo]

2 minutes ago, TRO said:

I totally agree with that.

but they are not sure enough of what they want in the first place.

but sadly it happens with players too, we are not determined enough to get the players we want.....we settle for the easy option.

Sean Dyche and don't take no for an answer - to me that's do able.

[Dave-R]

1 hour ago, TRO said:

I just believe the foundations need to be put in before the roof goes on.

I believe the chassis needs to be in place before the bodywork is fitted.

Attacking football is great, its what we all want to see....but if the chassis is made of putty or the foundations made of mashmallow, the attackers have to come back to defend too many times.

The most natural instinct in football is to defend....attackers have to be confident they have a platform to work off....not to have to track back, to burn unnecessary energy, after every sorte....they soon lose energy and confidence evaporates.

We have a team not set up to control, contain or curtail the opposition....you have to win the right to play football, we think we can without earning the right.....so we have little pockets of light that we rely on to score.....we need players to do both.

In the championship players make mistakes that you can capitalise on to win possession or they are slow and you can intercept.....in this league, you have to press and turn the ball over by winning duels....to do that, you have to work hard and have an engine, you have to have a will, determination and drive to win the ball and be personally offended if you don't....you have to show a natural level of aggression that takes you to these places......I don't see that in most of our players.

 

That is absolutely spot on for me, couldn't of said it any better.

Question is if Smith is acting so blind, how the hell does he start seeing things with clarity??

The bloke doesn't want to admit defeat in his formation and while ever that's going on I think it's going to be more of the same.

Surely Smith can see that his system may not be right for now and it may workout in a season or few, getting the right players in place who can go work a decent formation and bring some wins should be the priority here at Villa.

Edited June 22, 2020 by Dave-R

[useless]

No thanks to Sean Dyche, he's a similar type to Lambert and Smith in that he's doing okay with a smaller club, we've been down that road before, we need someone who's proven they can handle being the manager of a big club and has had some relative success, Dyche has done okay but really the job he's done at Burnley akin to the job that Pullis did at Stoke, if we really want to progess as a club we have to be aiming for better than that.