Don_Simon Posted May 20, 2023 Share Posted May 20, 2023 19 hours ago, Tom13 said: I mean we have done plenty. Won promotion when we were in danger of getting stuck in The Championship long term. Survived against the odds after a massive (needed) rebuild after half our squad retired or went back to their parent clubs. Not done anything if you're talking about winning cups/qualifying for Europe etc, but relative to the situations we've been in, we've achieved plenty IMO. Getting prompted shouldn't be classed as a Villa achievement. In the post play off victory interview Deano and Purslow did, they said the same. Scrapping to stay up the same, we were absolutely woeful that season. Legends are for the long haul. In one hundred years, people will remember the 1982 lot, some of the 1994 / 1996 players too. Of the current cohort, who do your grandkids kids remember? Maybe Emi for being at Villa when he won the biggest competition in the world as the best player in his position in the world? Tyrone for his off field wonderful-ness, (not a word but I'm taking it anyway). It's pretty far fetched to think they'll be talking about John McGinn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom13 Posted May 20, 2023 Share Posted May 20, 2023 4 minutes ago, Don_Simon said: Getting prompted shouldn't be classed as a Villa achievement. In the post play off victory interview Deano and Purslow did, they said the same. Scrapping to stay up the same, we were absolutely woeful that season. Legends are for the long haul. In one hundred years, people will remember the 1982 lot, some of the 1994 / 1996 players too. Of the current cohort, who do your grandkids kids remember? Maybe Emi for being at Villa when he won the biggest competition in the world as the best player in his position in the world? Tyrone for his off field wonderful-ness, (not a word but I'm taking it anyway). It's pretty far fetched to think they'll be talking about John McGinn. Well yeah we were woeful but you're missing the point. When we went up half our squad was dismantled because of retirees/returning loanees. So in the scheme of our situation at that time, it was an achievement. And Mings/McGinn weren't responsible for us being in The Championship, so the promotion and survival were certainly achievements for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don_Simon Posted May 20, 2023 Share Posted May 20, 2023 7 hours ago, Tom13 said: Well yeah we were woeful but you're missing the point. When we went up half our squad was dismantled because of retirees/returning loanees. So in the scheme of our situation at that time, it was an achievement. And Mings/McGinn weren't responsible for us being in The Championship, so the promotion and survival were certainly achievements for them. I completely agree, they were achievements. But this conversation isn't about what's an achievement or what isn't, I think. It's about is John McGinn a Villa legend, and a playoff win / last day survival in which he played a team role, doesn't constitute legend status. (It would for Blues). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tinker Posted May 20, 2023 VT Supporter Share Posted May 20, 2023 Look at the spine of this team, Martinez, Mings , McGinn and Ollie. Its a top 4 combination and McGinn is a central part of it, his improvement since Emery came is spectacular. Hes played in 3 different roles and performed well in all of them, Scotland are very lucky to have him and so are we..a Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vive_La_Villa Posted May 20, 2023 Share Posted May 20, 2023 He got battered by Fabinho today. It was farcical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom13 Posted May 20, 2023 Share Posted May 20, 2023 Watkins certainly isn't top four standard. Mings and Martinez yes. McGinn? Not sure either, as outstanding as he's been. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaVilla Posted May 20, 2023 Share Posted May 20, 2023 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Tom13 said: Watkins certainly isn't top four standard. Mings and Martinez yes. McGinn? Not sure either, as outstanding as he's been. McGinn would be a good squad player, regardless (if we do sign players for his position(s). Edited May 20, 2023 by MaVilla 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam2003 Posted May 20, 2023 Share Posted May 20, 2023 2 hours ago, Don_Simon said: I completely agree, they were achievements. But this conversation isn't about what's an achievement or what isn't, I think. It's about is John McGinn a Villa legend, and a playoff win / last day survival in which he played a team role, doesn't constitute legend status. (It would for Blues). Don’t really buy this line of thinking. Charlie Aitken was a pretty poor player who played most of his Villa career in the lower divisions but if you’re arguing he isn’t subjectively a Villa legend I am not sure many would agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom13 Posted May 20, 2023 Share Posted May 20, 2023 5 minutes ago, MaVilla said: McGinn would be a good squad player, regardless (if we do sign players for his position(s). 100% Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tinker Posted May 21, 2023 VT Supporter Share Posted May 21, 2023 7 hours ago, Vive_La_Villa said: He got battered by Fabinho today. It was farcical. The ref allowed Liverpool to foul us ,unpunished, when their attacks broke down time and time again. It changes the whole game as they can high press our back 4 and not get punished on the transition. 7 hours ago, Don_Simon said: Ollie is not the main striker in a top four team. Well, not a top four team of this league anyway. The rest? Absolutely. I can think of 2 strikers i would have rather than Ollie, one plays for City and the other is a cheat. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Villarocker Posted May 21, 2023 Share Posted May 21, 2023 On 19/05/2023 at 21:57, Kingman said: Come on King an, there's a clear and obvious error with that picture. The Grand National is never run at 3:30. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted May 21, 2023 Share Posted May 21, 2023 (edited) 7 minutes ago, gwi1890 said: Exactly don’t see how people fail to see this Because people spend so much time watching us that they don't always see everyone else, there's a perception of what everyone else is doing rather than the reality There are 2 top top strikers in the PL, Haaland and Kane, the rest get by mostly with goalscoring wide men and players on around 15 goals a season McGinn is the same, not top 4 quality, yet utd start games with mctominay and Fred Edited May 21, 2023 by villa4europe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted May 21, 2023 Share Posted May 21, 2023 13 hours ago, Vive_La_Villa said: He got battered by Fabinho today. It was farcical. It was a clear plan to stop him.......He is clearly a threat to teams like them....He has come on leaps and bounds under UE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don_Simon Posted May 21, 2023 Share Posted May 21, 2023 11 hours ago, Adam2003 said: Don’t really buy this line of thinking. Charlie Aitken was a pretty poor player who played most of his Villa career in the lower divisions but if you’re arguing he isn’t subjectively a Villa legend I am not sure many would agree. I would argue the squad of '82 are all Villa legends. There are standouts of course, but they cumulatively worked to achieve our finest moment. Which is my point really. If we were a nothing club like Blues, or one with very little historical accomplishment like Newcastle, then I would say what McGinn has achieved would make him a legend. But we're Villa. Our benchmark is higher. The metrics we measure the term legend against should be higher than at other clubs. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stoobs Posted May 21, 2023 Visiting Supporter Share Posted May 21, 2023 Just now, Stoobs said: Wonder what John McGinn thinks about the Ollie Watkins going on here. Watkins debate even Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jono62 Posted May 23, 2023 Share Posted May 23, 2023 Phwoar. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom13 Posted May 23, 2023 Share Posted May 23, 2023 9 minutes ago, Jono62 said: Phwoar. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
useless Posted May 24, 2023 Share Posted May 24, 2023 Set for a bumper new deal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Powehi Posted May 25, 2023 Share Posted May 25, 2023 He's definitely shifted some timber since Unai arrived Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
picicata Posted May 25, 2023 Share Posted May 25, 2023 A few weeks ago Ming's mentioned in one of his interviews how Emery had spoke to them about the importance of being serious about winning. To me this one of the most important things that has changed about McGinn, he has a determination about him that I don't think we've seen before Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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