Israel, Palestine and Iran

[meregreen]

20 minutes ago, Thug said:

At the commencement of hostilities, both Egypt and Israel announced that they had been attacked by the other country.^[83] The Israeli government later abandoned its initial position, acknowledging Israel had struck first, claiming that it was a preemptive strike in the face of a planned invasion by Egypt.^[83][33]On the other hand, the Arab view was that it was unjustified to attack Egypt.^[164][165] Many commentators consider the war as the classic case of anticipatory attack in self-defense.^[166][167]

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Six-Day_War

Semantics. When massive forces are gathering on your borders readying for an invasion, then it’s probably a smart move to stop them.

[Thug]

10 minutes ago, meregreen said:

Semantics. When massive forces are gathering on your borders readying for an invasion, then it’s probably a smart move to stop them.

Oh, so they DID start it.  Thanks for clarifying.

 

 

[OutByEaster?]

The BBC were reporting yesterday that the way in which the Palestinian authority are reporting deaths was quite different to the way I'd understood the reporting and I think quite importantly so.

They're reporting named lists of deaths from bodies in hospitals - if somebody dies in a hospital and they're added to the list, if somebody dies and their body is taken to the hospital, they're added to the list. The list is now more than 10,000 people.

If somebody dies and is buried under a building, or left in a place too dangerous to recover, or blown into tiny pieces, or left somewhere too remote to recover - they aren't on the list and they're not recorded in the count.

With the pictures I've seen of Gaza, and the levels of destruction, there could be thousands more bodies out there, we're talking about 10,000 dead - it could be two or three times that.

[sne]

1 minute ago, OutByEaster? said:

The BBC were reporting yesterday that the way in which the Palestinian authority are reporting deaths was quite different to the way I'd understood the reporting and I think quite importantly so.

They're reporting named lists of deaths from bodies in hospitals - if somebody dies in a hospital and they're added to the list, if somebody dies and their body is taken to the hospital, they're added to the list. The list is now more than 10,000 people.

If somebody dies and is buried under a building, or left in a place too dangerous to recover, or blown into tiny pieces, or left somewhere too remote to recover - they aren't on the list and they're not recorded in the count.

With the pictures I've seen of Gaza, and the levels of destruction, there could be thousands more bodies out there, we're talking about 10,000 dead - it could be two or three times that.

Yeah but to be fair on Israel they did drop pamphlets telling people to leave before bombing them so who is really to blame here.

[Mic09]

2 minutes ago, OutByEaster? said:

The BBC were reporting yesterday that the way in which the Palestinian authority are reporting deaths was quite different to the way I'd understood the reporting and I think quite importantly so.

They're reporting named lists of deaths from bodies in hospitals - if somebody dies in a hospital and they're added to the list, if somebody dies and their body is taken to the hospital, they're added to the list. The list is now more than 10,000 people.

If somebody dies and is buried under a building, or left in a place too dangerous to recover, or blown into tiny pieces, or left somewhere too remote to recover - they aren't on the list and they're not recorded in the count.

With the pictures I've seen of Gaza, and the levels of destruction, there could be thousands more bodies out there, we're talking about 10,000 dead - it could be two or three times that.

Well, look on the bright side. Hamas has an estimated 20-25k members, so the bombing can stop soon! 

[chrisp65]

1 hour ago, bickster said:

Is this the same four hours they gave them weeks ago?

 

I think it was a new four hours to take the safe route to the safe zone they’ve been bombing today.

[MaVilla]

10 minutes ago, Mic09 said:

Well, look on the bright side. Hamas has an estimated 20-25k members, so the bombing can stop soon! 

i dunno, there might be between 10k and 20k dead, but only 3 of em were Hamas, so plenty to go yet.

 

/s

[Thug]

35 minutes ago, sne said:

Yeah but to be fair on Israel they did drop pamphlets telling people to leave before bombing them so who is really to blame here.

Hamas prob counting these leaflets as bombs.  
The majority of the ‘injuries’ that Hamas are reporting are paper cuts.

 

[meregreen]

1 hour ago, Thug said:

Oh, so they DID start it.  Thanks for clarifying.

 

 

No. What possible reason would Israel have had to attack Egypt. Other than to prevent an unprovoked attack on them. Don’t know if you were alive then, I was, the Arab nations were constantly manoeuvring to attack Israel. They lived their lives surrounded by people who wanted them erased. 

[OutByEaster?]

26 minutes ago, Thug said:

Hamas prob counting these leaflets as bombs.  
The majority of the ‘injuries’ that Hamas are reporting are paper cuts.

Are Hamas reporting injuries?

 

[Thug]

36 minutes ago, OutByEaster? said:

Are Hamas reporting injuries?

 

Well, it’s a very confusing situation.  A couple of days ago I heard some ?Israeli? Pro-Israel uk politician? (I forget who exactly) Refuting the numbers of deaths/wounded.  Saying that these numbers were being exaggerated by Hamas.  The interviewer then said that the numbers were being reported by the Health Ministry, not by Hamas.  And the person said ‘But Hamas control the ministry.  These numbers should be ignored as unreliable.’ Not direct quote, but words to that effect.

Strangely enough, ever since then I don’t hear the number of deaths reported any more.  Just ‘the number of deaths according to Hamas’.

So, in answer to your question, I didn’t think it was Hamas that reported the deaths/wounded - I thought it was the health ministry, but I have since been ‘corrected’ and I now see that it is indeed Hamas who lie about the numbers who are dead.

I think it’s actually 5 dead, 4 of whom were Hamas leaders.  None wounded.  Damn those Hamas guys, had me fooled for a bit.

[blandy]

50 minutes ago, OutByEaster? said:

Are Hamas reporting injuries?

 

Yes. 15,000+ on Monday, I think they said.

[OutByEaster?]

58 minutes ago, blandy said:

Yes. 15,000+ on Monday, I think they said.

I see the BBC are now going with "Hamas run health ministry" which is a change, and I think the first day for them with that description.

The UN and WHO are still running with figures though so I think we can put some faith in them.

to that it matters at this stage really, I have a feeling we're still at the early stages in terms of reporting deaths.

[omariqy]

The health ministry have always been accurate with these numbers. Israel has previously acknowledged this. I mean I have probably seen 400-500 dead children on social media myself just scrolling. It's genocide plain and simple. It's a catastrophe. That's without even thinking of the trauma and the follow on deaths to come. 

[Keyblade]

I don't know if they think people are unable or unwilling to zoom in on the image but looks like at least half of these names have a military rank next to them:

 

[desensitized43]

1 hour ago, Keyblade said:

I don't know if they think people are unable or unwilling to zoom in on the image but looks like at least half of these names have a military rank next to them:

 

Israel has national service so that’s not really surprising is it? I guess that means you’ll argue those people were legit targets.

[magnkarl]

2 hours ago, Keyblade said:

I don't know if they think people are unable or unwilling to zoom in on the image but looks like at least half of these names have a military rank next to them:

 

National service for both men and women will do that to you. It'd be the same if Russia bombed Norway. It's the effect of having to fend off 5 of your neighbours before you're an 8 hour old country.

I'd wager that most of the people without rank are either immigrants to Israel after national service age or tourists.

Looking at the comments to that post makes me want to vomit.

Edited November 8, 2023 by magnkarl

[Vive_La_Villa]

5 minutes ago, magnkarl said:

National service for both men and women will do that to you. It'd be the same if Russia bombed Norway. It's the effect of having to fend off 5 of your neighbours before you're an 8 hour old country.

I'd wager that most of the people without rank are either immigrants to Israel after national service age or tourists.

Looking at the comments to that post makes me want to vomit.

Don’t look at them. 

[Keyblade]

29 minutes ago, desensitized43 said:

Israel has national service so that’s not really surprising is it? I guess that means you’ll argue those people were legit targets.

Not at all. I initially thought this too, as well as of reservists, but it doesn't look like many there are below the rank of sergeant, which if I'm not wrong is a voluntary rank you attain after compulsory service is complete. Someone who knows more than me could probably chime in and correct me. 

[desensitized43]

13 minutes ago, Keyblade said:

Not at all. I initially thought this too, as well as of reservists, but it doesn't look like many there are below the rank of sergeant, which if I'm not wrong is a voluntary rank you attain after compulsory service is complete. Someone who knows more than me could probably chime in and correct me. 

Many of the population are reservists as a result of the extreme risk that the country will need to go into total war mode to fend off an attack on all sides by all its neighbours as has happened before.

I ask again, so what? Are unarmed civilian reservists and former national service kids legit targets? What exactly are you trying to say by posting a list of names and pointing out that a great many have military rank? Can you answer please.