Stevo985 Posted April 17, 2018 VT Supporter Share Posted April 17, 2018 5 hours ago, Villan4Life said: Type of player Bruce normally goes for throughout his career, players in his opinion with a point to prove!! I think there’s zero chance Bruce will go for Barton. And I can’t really think of any examples of similar signings Bruce has made in the past. Im not sure how you’ve come to your conclusion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lerner's Driver Posted April 17, 2018 Share Posted April 17, 2018 1 hour ago, Stevo985 said: I think there’s zero chance Bruce will go for Barton. And I can’t really think of any examples of similar signings Bruce has made in the past. Im not sure how you’ve come to your conclusion. Tbf Stevo, the O.P. stated that Bruce has always gone for players with something to prove and there is some evidence for this, so that's how he has come to his conclusion! I'm not sure that's the only type of player he's signed, so you might object to the absolute he used, but in and of itself it's not an absurd idea that Bruce could be interested in Barton. We'll park the fact that Bruce may not be around to decide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted April 17, 2018 VT Supporter Share Posted April 17, 2018 7 minutes ago, Lerner's Driver said: Tbf Stevo, the O.P. stated that Bruce has always gone for players with something to prove and there is some evidence for this, so that's how he has come to his conclusion! I'm not sure that's the only type of player he's signed, so you might object to the absolute he used, but in and of itself it's not an absurd idea that Bruce could be interested in Barton. We'll park the fact that Bruce may not be around to decide. Fair enough. But there are plenty of other factors that would mean Barton is a no go. I don't think Bruce has a record of signing players with a point to prove, but who also have massive attitude problems and have been out of the game for so long. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vive_La_Villa Posted April 17, 2018 Share Posted April 17, 2018 Would loves us to go for Sergi Canos if we are still in this league. Looks a player and would probably cost about 5M. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr_Pangloss Posted April 17, 2018 Share Posted April 17, 2018 2 hours ago, Vive_La_Villa said: Would loves us to go for Sergi Canos if we are still in this league. Looks a player and would probably cost about 5M. We should sign him regardless of league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted April 17, 2018 Share Posted April 17, 2018 4 hours ago, Vive_La_Villa said: Would loves us to go for Sergi Canos if we are still in this league. Looks a player and would probably cost about 5M. Based on...? Jota going for £6m? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vive_La_Villa Posted April 17, 2018 Share Posted April 17, 2018 16 minutes ago, bobzy said: Based on...? Jota going for £6m? Just thinking on how Brentford being a selling club they would probably cash in. They'd probably reinvest 5M on several players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junxs Posted April 17, 2018 Share Posted April 17, 2018 On 12/03/2018 at 20:22, mikeyp102 said: Wasn’t Bruce the one who signed the likes of Valencia and Palacios. Be great if he could find some gems like that again. He was recommended to Bruce by Arsene Wenger who didnt sign him for Arsenal because, although he thought Palacios was a good player, he wasnt quite to Arsenal standards. Bruce being a nice guy has some good contacts in Football Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alreadyexists Posted April 18, 2018 VT Supporter Share Posted April 18, 2018 Luke Shaw is only 22(!) If we go up, I’d love to see us try an get him. Surely the lure of regular football would help. Can’t be good just festering at Man Utd. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Posted April 18, 2018 Share Posted April 18, 2018 I wonder what our chances of keeping Sam Johnstone at the club on loan or as a permanent signing will be next season and how that might be influenced by our getting promoted or not? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
choffer Posted April 18, 2018 VT Supporter Share Posted April 18, 2018 (edited) On 17/04/2018 at 08:47, Vive_La_Villa said: Would loves us to go for Sergi Canos if we are still in this league. Looks a player and would probably cost about 5M. Really not the kind of player we should be looking for. Really is the kind of player we occasionally regret buying. Hot and cold (but mostly lukewarm), capable of a sulk, equally capable of having a stormer every once in a while. Very skilful player but goes missing far too often. Being a regular at Griffin Park (moreso than VP these days), I have seen a good number of great performances from him but I've seen a greater amount of games where I've not noticed he was even on the pitch. He is young though so he could yet come good but if Smith isn't starting him regularly this season, I can't see how he improves our current team. Edited April 18, 2018 by choffer 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sir_gary_cahill Posted April 18, 2018 Share Posted April 18, 2018 6 hours ago, alreadyexists said: Luke Shaw is only 22(!) If we go up, I’d love to see us try an get him. Surely the lure of regular football would help. Can’t be good just festering at Man Utd. Feels like he's been around for ages, I guess he did come through at 16 when he was at Southampton, I doubt he'd come here even if it was a loan but I would love him, I think he's an excellent player 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sir_gary_cahill Posted April 18, 2018 Share Posted April 18, 2018 (edited) On 17/04/2018 at 10:56, Dr_Pangloss said: We should sign him regardless of league. I'd take him too, quality player but not convinced he's Premier League quality edit- I didn't realise he's only 21, he'll improve over time and no doubt play in the Premier League Edited April 18, 2018 by sir_gary_cahill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sne Posted April 18, 2018 Share Posted April 18, 2018 Barton apparentlygot a job as manager of Fleetwood Town so we can nip that one in the bud 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vive_La_Villa Posted April 18, 2018 Share Posted April 18, 2018 4 hours ago, choffer said: Being a regular at Griffin Park (moreso than VP these days Are Brentford as good as as the hype in how they try to play? Also any gems you'd like to see at Villa Park? Also would you like to see Smith as our manager if we don't get promoted? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
choffer Posted April 18, 2018 VT Supporter Share Posted April 18, 2018 (edited) 20 minutes ago, Vive_La_Villa said: Are Brentford as good as as the hype in how they try to play? Also any gems you'd like to see at Villa Park? Also would you like to see Smith as our manager if we don't get promoted? * Warning - quite off-topic * Brentford is such a difficult one to analyse as everything (and I mean everything) is about "the system". They buy players that they think will fit into it and in the main, they pick up players who adapt and play well in it. As with many clubs, their plan is to buy young (and hungry?) and sell on for a profit. They're not the only club that aims for this but they are probably one of the more successful at it. It does mean they turn over a lot of players in any one season though and there is little in terms of continuity from one season to the next. Given this, it is admirable that they continue to punch above their weight and that they do so playing an open, attacking, passing game. It really is a pleasure to watch for the most part. Every once in a while, someone comes and spoils it by smothering the game but genuinely do so by shutting the game down. The thing I always feel though is that their standout players thrive because of their part in the system. They were purchased with a specific aim in mind and mostly they fulfil that role for the team but it's not always transferrable to another side. Hogan is the obvious example of this as anyone who saw him regularly at Brentford will know he has talent and ability but will also know that for the most part, Villa aren't set up to make best use (not wanting to start another debate about how adaptable players should be - we've done that enough in the Hogan thread!). There have been players who've left in the last few years who've gone on to improve themselves (Andre Gray and Tarkowski being the obvious mentions) but many who've theoretically gone on to bigger and better things have faded fast. Woods is the obvious standout currently (and not just because he bosses Villa every time he plays them) but that's mostly because of his role in the side. He is absolutely the pivot, the quarterback and everything goes through him. I'm not saying he isn't a very good footballer as he certainly is but I genuinely think it's his role that makes him stand out as much as his play. It's difficult to get over to people who don't watch regularly and every club has their own system but "the system" at Brentford is so all-pervading, it's tough to see players doing the same role elsewhere. Other than Woods, Bentley is a good keeper and I'd expect him to be a Premier goalie in the next year or two (although probably backing-up rather than first choice, Judge would be playing in the premier league by now if it weren't for his injuries. John Egan will make a good career in the top level at some point and although it's still early days, Mokotjo looks a fantastic prospect. Having said all of that though, I don't think there's anyone in the Brentford first team that would improve ours. Edited April 18, 2018 by choffer 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vive_La_Villa Posted April 18, 2018 Share Posted April 18, 2018 5 minutes ago, choffer said: * Warning - quite off-topic * Brentford is such a difficult one to analyse as everything (and I mean everything) is about "the system". They buy players that they think will fit into it and in the main, they pick up players who adapt and play well in it. As with many clubs, their plan is to buy young (and hungry?) and sell on for a profit. They're not the only club that aims for this but they are probably one of the more successful at it. It does mean they turn over a lot of players in any one season though and there is little in terms of continuity from one season to the next. Given this, it is admirable that they continue to punch above their weight and that they do so playing an open, attacking, passing game. It really is a pleasure to watch for the most part. Every once in a while, someone comes and spoils it by smothering the game but genuinely do so by shutting the game down. The thing I always feel though is that their standout players thrive because of their part in the system. They were purchased with a specific aim in mind and mostly they fulfil that role for the team but it's not always transferrable to another side. Hogan is the obvious example of this as anyone who saw him regularly at Brentford will know he has talent and ability but will also know that for the most part, Villa aren't set up to make best use (not wanting to start another debate about how adaptable players should be - we've done that enough in the Hogan thread!). There have been players who've left in the last few years who've gone on to improve themselves (Andre Gray and Tarkowski being the obvious mentions) but many who've theoretically gone on to bigger and better things have faded fast. Woods is the obvious standout currently (and not just because he bosses Villa every time he plays them) but that's mostly because of his role in the side. He is absolutely the pivot, the quarterback and everything goes through him. I'm not saying he isn't a very good footballer as he certainly is but I genuinely think it's his role that makes him stand out as much as his play. It's difficult to get over to people who don't watch regularly and every club has their own system but "the system" at Brentford is so all-pervading, it's tough to see players doing the same role elsewhere. Other than Woods, Bentley is a good keeper and I'd expect him to be a Premier goalie in the next year or two (although probably backing-up rather than first choice, Judge would be playing in the premier league by now if it weren't for his injuries. John Egan will make a good career in the top level at some point and although it's still early days, Mokotjo looks a fantastic prospect. Having said all of that though, I don't think there's anyone in the Brentford first team that would improve ours. Great post. Thanks for that. I suppose what everyone wants to know is if Smith and his staff moved to a bigger club and setup the same system. Just with better players and not having to sell them on when they excel. What is he capable of achieving? I personally would love to see something similar at Villa and would be happy to wait a few years in this league to see it pay dividends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
choffer Posted April 18, 2018 VT Supporter Share Posted April 18, 2018 46 minutes ago, Vive_La_Villa said: Great post. Thanks for that. I suppose what everyone wants to know is if Smith and his staff moved to a bigger club and setup the same system. Just with better players and not having to sell them on when they excel. What is he capable of achieving? I personally would love to see something similar at Villa and would be happy to wait a few years in this league to see it pay dividends. I’m not sure the same system is capable of being replicated. At Brentford, the manager fits into the system and is just another part of it. (Warburton threw his toys out of the pram when he began to believe his own hype and started wanting to operate on his own initiative). I don’t want to diminish Smith as he is clearly a significant part of the current operation but much like the players, he is just another cog in the machine. I genuinely couldn’t tell you if he could be a success elsewhere but I am certain that the exact Brentford operational model would be extremely difficult to replicate. For that, you’d need a multi-millionaire owner who had such a belief in his own abilities and in the abilities of statistical modelling that he’d ignore much of the usual footballing norms. I’m not saying Benham is the second coming here but it’s hard to overstate by how much Brentford are overachieving in the last 7 or 8 years and the one constant in that period is his analytic approach (oh, and the millions he’s pumped into the club while he builds sustainability). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted April 18, 2018 VT Supporter Share Posted April 18, 2018 5 hours ago, sne said: Barton apparentlygot a job as manager of Fleetwood Town so we can nip that one in the bud But I thought Bruce would definitely be interested!! weird. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sne Posted April 18, 2018 Share Posted April 18, 2018 Just now, Stevo985 said: But I thought Bruce would definitely be interested!! weird. Perhaps he was, we just couldn't compete with their offer. FFP and all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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