The Video Assistant Referee (VAR)

[Stevo985]

1 minute ago, Genie said:

I think in the past we've benefitted from common sense refereeing, where there has been no obvious advantage gained then play is allowed to continue. This is vanishing.

I was wondering if free kicks and throw ins will be next. Play is generally allowed to continue if the set piece is taken quickly from the somewhere in the vicinity of the correct location. Will these come under scrutiny? We have the technology now to pull the game back and make sure its exact.

I don't know, but that's different anyway. Because as far as I know it's not in the laws that free kicks and throw ins have to be taken from the exact spot if they're taken quickly. But it is in the laws that keepers can't move off their line before a penalty is taken. Happy to be corrected on those though.

"Common Sense" refereeing is what leads to stuff like time wasting, imo. Like the 6 second rule for goalkeepers. It's not enforced. Nowhere near. So why even have it? it's the only sport I can think of where it has these laws but then doesn't enforce them.

If goalkeepers aren't allowed to move off their line then enforce it. If players aren't allowed to encroach on penalties then enforce it. If they are allowed then change the laws to say so.

 

4 minutes ago, Genie said:

I think next year in the PL it'll cause massive uproar. I really do and could even see it scrapped before the end of the season. Papers will be dominated by high level managers going nuts about it (rightly or wrongly, but still it'll take away the spectacle of the sport). I've said it before, but I think a big player will be needlessly injured chasing something because linesmen have been told not to flag.

I think it'll be the total opposite. Papers and pundits will go mental about it. You're right. But by the end of the season we'll just be used to it. This time next season it'll be a non-issue. Even if I'm wrong on that, there is absolutely no way it will get scrapped.

As for a player getting injured chasing something, it's a total non issue. That kind of thing could happen now. Linesmen already don't flag until an offside player actually gets to the ball (or interferes in play) so a player could already get injured chasing something that they're already offside for.

To me that's a really big stretch trying to find a fault with something.

[Genie]

6 minutes ago, Stevo985 said:

I think it'll be the total opposite. Papers and pundits will go mental about it. You're right. But by the end of the season we'll just be used to it. This time next season it'll be a non-issue.

I think it'll eventually get accepted as something people have to live with, not necessarily the same as being an improvement.

Currently we've seen it in 1 off games. When its in 6/7/8 games on a Saturday there could well be an explosion of complaints about it. Time will tell.

[Stevo985]

Just now, Genie said:

I think it'll eventually get accepted as something people have to live with, not necessarily the same as being an improvement.

Currently we've seen it in 1 off games. When its in 6/7/8 games on a Saturday there could well be an explosion of complaints about it. Time will tell.

It's already used in numerous other league. Including at least one of the biggest leagues in the world. And there's no hint of it being scrapped.

There's no chance it'll get scrapped over here.

[Mic09]

6 minutes ago, Genie said:

I think it'll eventually get accepted as something people have to live with, not necessarily the same as being an improvement.

Currently we've seen it in 1 off games. When its in 6/7/8 games on a Saturday there could well be an explosion of complaints about it. Time will tell.

Football fans have seen it in numerous leagues including Bundesliga, la Liga, MLS, ligue1 , and others for a couple of seasons now. Thousands of football matches.

It's not a new thing, it doesn't need further trials, it's accepted everywhere around the world but not on our Island. 

Edited June 21, 2019 by Mic09

[sne]

Quote

Jonas Eriksson's criticism: "The judicial effort has become worse because of VAR"

PARIS. The video referee system has caused many headlines during the World Cup in France. Now former judge Jonas Eriksson criticizes the VAR use - and that the judges have not had to prepare properly.

- Using it on training is like dry swim, going into sharp position is a completely different tension, says Jonas Eriksson.

Unclear offside assessments, long wait for punishments that are then blown off, goalkeeping feet that leave the finish line a half-second too early. The referees have been in good wind during the first half of the World Cup in France and it is not often the VAR use that contributed to the confusion and criticism. Only in Saturday's eighth finals between Norway and Australia there were a large number of verdicts that landed in VAR assessments and became wrong, according to Jonas Eriksson .

- The match was fantastic, it swung back and forth, but then comes a hand that is sentenced as a penalty and then sentenced, it is a wrong decision from the judge, okay. Then Australia has a penalty situation that I do not understand how it can not be punished, and in addition, we have a target chances, where attacking players do not have a chance to reach the ball ...

What do judges say you're talking to?

- Everyone is confused. Many do not recognize VAR, when it comes in and in what situations it should be used. Last summer, during the men's World Cup, you still had a look at it and understood what they were looking for and not. Here are so many decisions they are looking at; millimeter error of the goalkeeper on the penalty line, sure, there is a new rule to be followed and right should be right, but a goalkeeper holding the ball 6.1 seconds (instead of the allowed six seconds) is just as wrong.

 

 

One objection that has occurred is that the men's judges had been practicing it in match context before the World Cup last year. Is it reasonable to throw in VAR in a championship on the women's side where the judges have no chance to get acquainted with it before?

- It is Stephanie Frappart and Bibiana Steinhaus (who judge in men's league) who have tested it. Others have trained it, but not doomed. It is like dry swim, going into a World Cup when there is a tension and suddenly doing it in sharp position is an incredible difference. All judges who judged Mr VM last year had tested in competition context; in the U20 World Cup, the Confederations Cup and in the leagues. Maybe they should have tested VAR in the Algarve Cup for example.

Jonas Eriksson also points to a possible psychological explanation for the many confusing situations during the summer's World Cup.

- The video judges men. They are experienced and incredibly talented, they sentenced the World Cup in Russia last year, but are there possibly a superstition in them to go in and correct? Don't those who judge themselves think the same way?

https://www.aftonbladet.se/sportbladet/fotboll/a/3JxBEA/jonas-erikssons-kritik-domarinsatsen-har-blivit-samre-pga-var

Sure it's here to stay in some form but so far it's still a mess, even the ref's think so.

 

Edited June 23, 2019 by sne

[a m ole]

I’ve gone from being fully for it to really not being sure. I don’t have faith that they can implement it in a way that works i’m tandem with officials on the pitch.

[mikeyp102]

Hasn’t it worked well in the German league? If anyone has watched, do they have one VAR booth at every game or is it all centralised? How big is VAR team? Could they possibly have people looking at 2 incidents at the same time.

[Zatman]

Just now, mikeyp102 said:

Hasn’t it worked well in the German league? If anyone has watched, do they have one VAR booth at every game or is it all centralised? How big is VAR team? Could they possibly have people looking at 2 incidents at the same time.

The game I went to had 1 VAR call but nobody in crowd knew what happened before or after 

[tomav84]

It worked well in the men's world cup and works well in many other leagues. Just because it's being very poorly applied by officials that have not used the technology before doesn't mean it's a bad system

[Demitri_C]

Should be used for only if a balls crossed a line. Not crap like penalties 

[terrytini]

The world is full of things that are ‘good’ in themselves, only to be ‘ bad’ due to how they are used.

If VAR continues to fall into this category it won’t be welcome.

The ‘ goal’ in football - or at least the goal for those attending games - is NOT to be as accurate as possible. The argument isn’t just whether when used it gets things “ right”.

That is the goal in, say, Chartered Accountancy.

It IS absurd that for years TV viewers and a 4th Official could see where a Ref had made a mistake, but he wasn’t allowed to know. For that reason VAR makes perfect sense, and I’m in favour.

But it has to be implemented better. (I’m not sure I understand the argument that it (a) has been widely used for a few years successfully yet (b) needs more time.) 

Im not happy to spend a couple of thousand pounds next season watching an experiment.

 

[terrytini]

12 hours ago, a m ole said:

I’ve gone from being fully for it to really not being sure. I don’t have faith that they can implement it in a way that works i’m tandem with officials on the pitch.

Exactly this. 

[terrytini]

On 21/06/2019 at 09:07, Genie said:

I think it'll eventually get accepted as something people have to live with, not necessarily the same as being an improvement.

Currently we've seen it in 1 off games. When its in 6/7/8 games on a Saturday there could well be an explosion of complaints about it. Time will tell.

Equally, and hopefully, it could be that once it is in common use here it will be implemented we,, understood, and a benefit. 

Certainky hope so !

[Zatman]

6 minutes ago, Demitri_C said:

Should be used for only if a balls crossed a line. Not crap like penalties 

eh that is goal line technology. Its different

[Demitri_C]

1 minute ago, Zatman said:

eh that is goal line technology. Its different

Then that is all that's needed. Dives for pens  or simulation for sending off ( like bamford) the current system is good. They get a ban and it effects the team.

Bamfords ban I think cost Leeds big time. U only need goal line technology in my view

[terrytini]

On 21/06/2019 at 08:23, Stevo985 said:

I think they should. Honestly. Or if not VAr then have the linesmen strictly enforce it

 

It seems ridiculous at the moment because people aren't used to it so keepers will get penalised a lot. But once people get used to the rule actually being enforced they'll stick to it.

 

It's another example of a law being made in football and the authorities being too scared to actually enforce it. Either have the rule and enforce it, or don't have the rule.

Completely agree. Ludicrously weak from the PL. One or the other. Flies in the face of the whole concept of VAR and ironically it’s one of the instances where VAR is at its best, clearly a factual matter and a restart easy. 

So what is the rule now, effectively ? You can come off the line as much as you can get away with with that Ref on that day ? 

Ridiculous.

[kurtsimonw]

I don't understand why it's suddenly now a talking point. Serie A used it perfectly fine last season, it seems other leagues did too. It sounds like it's simply down to crap officiating at this competition, and crap behaviour from players. Cameroon made yesterday a controversy, when in reality the only 2  debatable VAR decisions went against England.

[Stevo985]

20 minutes ago, kurtsimonw said:

I don't understand why it's suddenly now a talking point. Serie A used it perfectly fine last season, it seems other leagues did too. It sounds like it's simply down to crap officiating at this competition, and crap behaviour from players. Cameroon made yesterday a controversy, when in reality the only 2  debatable VAR decisions went against England.

It's always a talking point when players first encounter it. Just like goalline technology was, or goalline referees, or **** vanishing spray.

It will be a huge talking point next season when it's first used. By the end of the season it wont. Imo.

[sne]

1 hour ago, kurtsimonw said:

I don't understand why it's suddenly now a talking point. Serie A used it perfectly fine last season, it seems other leagues did too. It sounds like it's simply down to crap officiating at this competition, and crap behaviour from players. Cameroon made yesterday a controversy, when in reality the only 2  debatable VAR decisions went against England.

There has been loads of debate and controversy in Germany, Italy, France and Spain around VAR this season.

There are articles and videos every week almost with wtf moments that's fueled by VAR.

There seem to be this idea that you can judge VAR without factoring in the people watching the videos and the refs making the calls and that VAR in working fine, it's just the people using it that are poor?

Don't really get that argument.

 

[kurtsimonw]

1 minute ago, sne said:

There has been loads of debate and controversy in Germany, Italy, France and Spain around VAR this season.

There are articles and videos every week almost with wtf moments that's fueled by VAR.

There seem to be this idea that you can judge VAR without factoring in the people watching the videos and the refs making the calls and that VAR in working fine, it's just the people using it that are poor?

Don't really get that argument.

 

Of course it's not completely without controversy, because it is not a black and white sport.

All VAR is, is the ability to rewatch incidents. People seem to expect it to be some all knowing AI entity that gets everything right. Referees make mistakes due to human error, VAR will help eliminate some of that human error. But given it's still the same officials actually making the decision, of course everyone won't agree with all decisions - also, in part, due to the sport not being a clear black/white.

Referees will make mistakes with or without this technology. They'll just make less with it, therefore I don't see how it can be a bad thing.

Don't get me wrong, it's not as perfect as it could be yet, I think it needs speeding up. But that's all IMO.