Mic09 Posted June 25, 2019 Share Posted June 25, 2019 22 minutes ago, Genie said: My personal view is that I don't agree with the argument "if it gets more decisions correct then it HAS to be a good thing". Its about the price to pay for the improved success rate of decisions. That's the bottom line here. I think that 2/3 minute review is a small price to pay to prevent Aston Villa losing a game at Old Trafford. I think that the Irish fans would be happy to pay that price to see the Henry handball cancelled. I think that the reviews will get quicker and quicker which means the price to pay will be lesser and lesser and the end result will be a fair(er) game. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mic09 Posted June 25, 2019 Share Posted June 25, 2019 1 minute ago, Genie said: versus how many we gained across all teams... fans will always remember where they've been hard done by more than when they got away with something. That's fine - but the same will happen with VAR so it's not an argument to be used either way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted June 25, 2019 Share Posted June 25, 2019 Just now, Mic09 said: That's the bottom line here. I think that 2/3 minute review is a small price to pay to prevent Aston Villa losing a game at Old Trafford. I think that the Irish fans would be happy to pay that price to see the Henry handball cancelled. I think that the reviews will get quicker and quicker which means the price to pay will be lesser and lesser and the end result will be a fair(er) game. You'd take 2/3 minutes in every single game for the rest of time to avoid a 1 in a million miss by the officials? In general Villa have a terrible record at OT because they are a lot better than us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted June 25, 2019 Share Posted June 25, 2019 3 minutes ago, Mic09 said: How many points have Villa lost to Liverpool/Man U because the referee decisions were actually incorrect? Was it really that many? Vidic in the final, Suarez dive. Was a Gerrard dive for a free kick one year which VAR wouldnt have mattered Most games we lost points we deserved it 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted June 25, 2019 Share Posted June 25, 2019 Just now, Mic09 said: That's fine - but the same will happen with VAR so it's not an argument to be used either way. You raised it not me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mic09 Posted June 25, 2019 Share Posted June 25, 2019 Just now, Genie said: You'd take 2/3 minutes in every single game for the rest of time to avoid a 1 in a million miss by the officials? In general Villa have a terrible record at OT because they are a lot better than us. It's not a 1 in a million miss - there is controversy, lesser or bigger, in each game. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mic09 Posted June 25, 2019 Share Posted June 25, 2019 1 minute ago, Zatman said: Was it really that many? Vidic in the final, Suarez dive. Was a Gerrard dive for a free kick one year which VAR wouldnt have mattered Most games we lost points we deserved it That's fine - no problem with that. But calculating 3 points gained one season, 7 lost other season, 2 gained the season after and 2 lost the following is silly maths. That's why I think these mathematics are a bit pointless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sne Posted June 25, 2019 Share Posted June 25, 2019 Just now, Mic09 said: It's not a 1 in a million miss - there is controversy, lesser or bigger, in each game. And this has increased with VAR, not the other way round IMO. Still tons of 50/50 calls where refs and people are non the wiser even after spending minutes watching the video. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mic09 Posted June 25, 2019 Share Posted June 25, 2019 2 minutes ago, Genie said: You raised it not me I quoted a poster that used the Levante example Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted June 25, 2019 Share Posted June 25, 2019 1 minute ago, Mic09 said: That's fine - no problem with that. But calculating 3 points gained one season, 7 lost other season, 2 gained the season after and 2 lost the following is silly maths. That's why I think these mathematics are a bit pointless. We also got dodgy decisions our way in the past though. Ashley Young won a few dodgy penalties in his time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mic09 Posted June 25, 2019 Share Posted June 25, 2019 Just now, sne said: And this has increased with VAR, not the other way round IMO. Still tons of 50/50 calls where refs and people are non the wiser even after spending minutes watching the video. Ok, and this to me is the first argument against VAR that I can get behind. Maybe, because we can now replay there is more controversy. I still prefer VAR, but I can appreciate where you are coming from with this, I haven't looked at it that way. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted June 25, 2019 Share Posted June 25, 2019 Quote The Levante considers it has been harmed by the VAR in seven of the twelve league matches it has played since the beginning of 2019, as the president of the Valencian club, Quico Catalán , complained after the match lost in San Mamés before Athletic Bilbao 3-2. In addition to considering that in Bilbao his team was canceled a valid goal scored by Coke in the first half, that there was a hand in the local area that should have been a penalty and that the penalty against his team at the last minute was not, Catalan considers that the errors against Levante have been several recently. The Valencian team believes that it has been damaged in six other matches this year, the first with the penalty committed by Nikola Vukcevic by a hand from the ground in the clash against Atlético de Madrid in the Metropolitan Wanda and that meant the defeat 1-0 on January 13. Three days later, in the match against Getafe (0-0) in the Ciutat de València, coach Paco López complained about two penalties not called in favor of his team. Barely fourteen days later, in the victory of the Levante in Vigo , from the Valencian team lamented a penalty against in the 88th minute when the result was 0-3 in their favor in a match that ended with a Levantist victory by 1-4. . The anger in the heart of the Levante was shot in the duel on February 24 against Real Madrid , since the two goals of the Madrid team were a penalty. Very controversial was the second committed by Doukouré on Casemiro in minute 78 of match and that, as Levante reflected on his official website, caused the serious knee injury of the African to shoot in the air and not impact, in this way, in the rival. Eight days later, Gil Manzano invalidated a goal by Coke Andujar for a supposed lack of Mayoral in the final leg of a match that ended with a 1-0 defeat of the Levante and that same week, against Villarreal (0-2 ) in Valencia, Sánchez Martínez, helped by the VAR, annulled Rochina's goal for an offside game by Morales. "It's a shame, I do not believe in the VAR" The president of the Levant, Quico Catalán, was very tough yesterday in his criticism of the VAR. "It's a shame what happened, we lose respect for football, I'm a lover of the VAR, but I no longer believe in the VAR," he said angrily after the defeat in San Mamés. The president of Levante complained of three plays, "the goal nullified" Coke in a header to corner kick to overwhelm Iago Herrerín with 2-0 on the scoreboard, "a very clear hand in the first part of Iñigo Martínez had to see the linier "and the discount penalty" preceded by an offside "and that transformed Iker Muniain in the final 3-2. "There are already seven games and ten decisions that have hurt us and this is professional football in which we all play, now there are people crying in the dressing room and people crying at home," he lamented. "Until now, I've always said everything with an education but now, as if they want to put me in 500 games, it's a shame." The referee, when he sees the plays at home, will throw his hands to his head. And the VAR referee? ", continued Catalán. https://www.tellerreport.com/sports/--the--robberies--of-the-var-that-outrage-levante-ud-.BklTLOKmF4.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted June 25, 2019 Share Posted June 25, 2019 FWIW I dont think anybody is against VAR but just not in this way. Worked perfectly in World Cup last year. Everything else seems a pile of shit though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted June 25, 2019 Author VT Supporter Share Posted June 25, 2019 1 hour ago, Genie said: How do you measure the disaster? Well it's continuing to be rolled out across other leagues. So it can't have been a disaster. That's how I measure it. All these people saying it will be a disaster and will get binned. I think if it was going to get binned it would have happened by now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bannedfromHandV Posted June 25, 2019 Share Posted June 25, 2019 49 minutes ago, sne said: Sadly I think this is how it'll end up. You get used to it being crap and slowly lose interest. That's the way football is going in general for me anyway (Villa excluded of course). It's the same with F1, Ice Hockey, Cross country skiing and loads of other sports. More and more rule changes making a simple sport more and more complicated and boring. And removing it further and further from being a sport that we can all relate to - that was part of footballs allure that, that it was the working mans game, that anyone could play it any time any place, whether you were watching top level football or the 9th tier - it was the same, it was even, it was fair. Not now, now it's a different game between the have's and have not's, football with VAR is infinitely different to football without it. Part of me thinks I'm going OTT with this but part of me genuinely feels this is a major nail in the coffin for football, at least as I know/remember/love it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bannedfromHandV Posted June 25, 2019 Share Posted June 25, 2019 Just now, Stevo985 said: Well it's continuing to be rolled out across other leagues. So it can't have been a disaster. That's how I measure it. All these people saying it will be a disaster and will get binned. I think if it was going to get binned it would have happened by now. Great justification - because FIFA and UEFA are so open to admitting they made a mistake eh? How long did we persist with the totally redundant 5th official or whatever they're called. Just because something is implemented and then expanded does not make it a good thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted June 25, 2019 Author VT Supporter Share Posted June 25, 2019 1 minute ago, bannedfromHandV said: Part of me thinks I'm going OTT with this but part of me genuinely feels this is a major nail in the coffin for football, at least as I know/remember/love it. Me too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bannedfromHandV Posted June 25, 2019 Share Posted June 25, 2019 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Stevo985 said: Me too For all your arrogance on this matter you may well come to regret it at some point you know. At least if I'm wrong, it's better for us all. If you're wrong, it's better for no-one. Edited June 25, 2019 by bannedfromHandV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted June 25, 2019 Author VT Supporter Share Posted June 25, 2019 (edited) 5 minutes ago, bannedfromHandV said: Great justification - because FIFA and UEFA are so open to admitting they made a mistake eh? How long did we persist with the totally redundant 5th official or whatever they're called. Just because something is implemented and then expanded does not make it a good thing. Cool. I don't necessarily disagree. But the question was about it being a disaster. The 5th officials (AARs) weren't a disaster. I don't think they've been binned have they? I think they've been made less essential by both goalline technology and VAR, but they can still be used if needed. If it wasn't for those two further advances they'd still be in place. The biggest problem with the AARs was people didn't understand what they did. The suggestion was that VAR would be a disaster and would be binned. My point was I think if that was going to happen it would have happened already. The Premier League isn't a special case. Edited June 25, 2019 by Stevo985 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted June 25, 2019 Author VT Supporter Share Posted June 25, 2019 (edited) 3 minutes ago, bannedfromHandV said: For all your arrogance on this matter you may well come to regret it at some point you know. **** hell mate. it was a joke. Hence the wink. it's my opinion. I'm not being arrogant I'm just backing up my opinion. What's arrogant about that? Why is it arrogant for me to defend my point but not arrogant for you to defend yours? Edited June 25, 2019 by Stevo985 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts