The Video Assistant Referee (VAR)

[kurtsimonw]

Indirect free kicks need to become more of a thing. Sometimes a penalty is just too harsh, but a punishment still needs to be given.

[sne]

Wonder how many years it will take until football is turned into a turn based game like American Football.

Give it 10-15 years and we'll have obligatory reviews after every whistle or ball over the side followed by tactical/commercial breaks and 4 periods instead of 2 halves.

[Stevo985]

3 minutes ago, sne said:

Wonder how many years it will take until football is turned into a turn based game like American Football.

Give it 10-15 years and we'll have obligatory reviews after every whistle or ball over the side followed by tactical/commercial breaks and 4 periods instead of 2 halves.

Bit of an overreaction  

[sne]

12 minutes ago, Stevo985 said:

Bit of an overreaction  

A few of those things has already been up and discussed by FIFA.

There is a lot of money to be made by adding commercial breaks and it would suit the American market.

Not saying it will happen next season.

[Mic09]

31 minutes ago, sne said:

Wonder how many years it will take until football is turned into a turn based game like American Football.

Give it 10-15 years and we'll have obligatory reviews after every whistle or ball over the side followed by tactical/commercial breaks and 4 periods instead of 2 halves.

That's happening regardless of VAR.

I can't even watch champions league for free anymore. 

[sne]

Just now, Mic09 said:

That's happening regardless of VAR.

I can't even watch champions league for free anymore. 

Yeah, absolutely.

It's not VAR that is driving these things on, that is just another detail that will make football worse and less interesting for me.

[Stevo985]

26 minutes ago, sne said:

A few of those things has already been up and discussed by FIFA.

There is a lot of money to be made by adding commercial breaks and it would suit the American market.

Not saying it will happen next season.

Commercial breaks is a lot different than obligatory stoppages after every whistle in the next 10-15 years

FWIW I doubt the commercial breaks thing will ever happen either.

 

So yeah, I think it was a bit of an overreaction to jump from VAR to what you suggested n the next decade.

[CardiffGreens]

5 hours ago, kurtsimonw said:

Indirect free kicks need to become more of a thing. Sometimes a penalty is just too harsh, but a punishment still needs to be given.

I like that idea.  I think the whole "if it hits your hand it's a pen" rule (good in terms of being clear cut in application of the rule) a little unbalanced in terms of awarding a pen (~70% chance of a goal) against an infraction that may have been unavoidable by a defender's actions.

(I'll try to cut my rambling to a minimum on this, but y'know) But watching the Women's World Cup and seeing VAR reviews taken against any sort of contact within the penalty area (whilst leaving similarly innocuous contact outside the area to the referee's discretion and on field decision), it does feel that something happening to someone facing away 17 yards from goal alongside the byeline is more "important" than something happening 19 yards from goal in the middle of the pitch.  Of course the answer to that is "more VAR" (or at least, not restricting the use to just the award of penalties).  I'd also prefer if the referee was the sole arbitrator of whether VAR was used  - asking someone for some assistance to make a decision is different enough to being told by the VAR that you might want to have another look at something (but I realise that'll add nothing to dissuade cries about a lack of consistency or inherent bias of referees).

I find the idea of "introducing technology" into the game, only to have it actually be someone sat in a portacabin looking at some grainy video replays a little disappointing - I wouldn't be adverse to seeing decision like handball being "graded" on the basis of how much time a defender had to react out of the way (from the distance between the defender and the attacker, and from the speed of the ball), using image processing techniques to measure their "silhouette area" over the time of the perceived infraction (did they use their arms to make themselves "bigger"), whether the projected flight of the ball was going on target and their actions was preventing denial of a goal scoring opportunity - and award a free kick/pen/red card as necessary.

 

Edit, apologies for the tl;dr wall of text.  Should also say, I'd rather not have VAR in at all (same game as on the parks etc etc), but since it's in, why not dream a little bigger with it?

Edited June 28, 2019 by CardiffGreens

[sne]

Bit strange that even with VAR this wasn't given a red card, just a horror tackle by the Spain captain.

Jens Lehman might actually have a point here in that FIFA/UEFA doesn't want to have their big games spoiled by having an early sending off.

It will still happen of course but the amount of shit players get away with just because it's at the beginning of the game is really annoying.

Quote

Video: Jesus Vallejo somehow escapes red card following awful tackle in Spain U21’s vs Germany

 

 

Jesus Vallejo can count his lucky stars tonight, as the Real Madrid defender somehow managed to avoid being sent off after he committed a horrible foul in Spain U21’s match vs Germany.

With the score at 1-0, Spain could’ve found themselves down to 10 men, after Vallejo made a horrible challenge, however the defender managed to somehow get away with just a yellow.

 

https://www.caughtoffside.com/2019/06/30/video-jesus-vallejo-somehow-escapes-red-card-following-awful-tackle-in-spain-u21s-vs-germany/

Edit: There is a video in the link.

Edited July 1, 2019 by sne

[Zatman]

Quote

Jens Lehman might actually have a point here in that FIFA/UEFA doesn't want to have their big games spoiled by having an early sending off.

I am a 100% sure this was the argument for Vidic in League Cup and De Jong on Alonso in World Cup final.

Its probably true but its bollocks as if thats the case can break somebody leg in 1st minute as you think you get a free foul. That Kieftenbald was always doing it in opening minutes in derbies but last games was 1st time ref actually booked him

[Stevo985]

Yeah was gonna say the same. Early red cards, and even yellow cards, have long been shirked away from by officials.

It's absolute nonsense in my opinion

[villa4europe]

So last night's game...

The offside one is easy, if that's the way they want to use it then fine, it was her big toe but she was offside, now enforce it, the problem I see there is that will be a lot of reviews and if they introduce choice "Mike his left big toe was offside you can go to VAR if you want" "nah **** it give the goal" you can't have that inconsistency 

The penalty...that's a shocker for me, coming together really natural, no attempt at the ball or to foul her, if be fuming if it was given against my team, you will never get consistency on that 

Big problem is getting fans to know the rules, the daylight thing has gone, I asked about a red card for the foul, my understanding of double jeopardy is a clear and obvious attempt to win the ball can't be punished twice, well it wasn't an attempt to win the ball

There will be some bad calls within the first couple of weeks in the prem 

[villa4europe]

And id to see van persies league winning hattrick again under new VAR offside rules, think all 3 get disallowed

Can you imagine the carnage 

[Zatman]

Messi called VAR bullshit last night

[Stevo985]

To me the women's game last night was VAR doing what VAR is meant to do.

Our goal was offside. It had been wrongly allowed and VAR overturned it.

Then we were denied a penalty. VAR rightly overturned it, imo.

 

My only complaint was the time it took to review the penalty incident. Not the actual review, how long had passed before they asked the ref to review.

[Stevo985]

1 hour ago, villa4europe said:

And id to see van persies league winning hattrick again under new VAR offside rules, think all 3 get disallowed

Can you imagine the carnage 

Why would there be carnage for that? VAR would rightly disallow them and the footage would be there as proof. 

[villa4europe]

Just now, Stevo985 said:

Why would there be carnage for that? VAR would rightly disallow them and the footage would be there as proof. 

you don't think 3 goals being called back for a VAR review and then ruled offside (correctly) by really fine margins in a game where if they won they would win the league would generate a negative reaction within the 80k person crowd?

they would be frothing at the mouth

[Davkaus]

7 minutes ago, Stevo985 said:

 

Then we were denied a penalty. VAR rightly overturned it, imo.

 

The penalty is the one I found interesting. We've had people moaning about 'clear and obvious' when it comes to offside, ever since VAR has been introduced, when that's never been a criteria for offside. But it should be for any foul, right?

I still don't think that was a foul, there's an absolutely miniscule amount of contact and it's initiated by the attacker. Even if you think it was a foul, however, shouldn't the 'clear and obvious error' malarky come in to it? It clearly wasn't one considering how many times it had to be played in slow motion from multiple angles to find any contact.

 

Edited July 3, 2019 by Davkaus

[Stevo985]

14 minutes ago, villa4europe said:

you don't think 3 goals being called back for a VAR review and then ruled offside (correctly) by really fine margins in a game where if they won they would win the league would generate a negative reaction within the 80k person crowd?

they would be frothing at the mouth

Yeah it would probably cause a negative reaction. Just like goals being ruled out by linesmen would cause a negative reaction. I don't think it would be carnage though.

If the decisions were right then I don't really see the issue in that specific situation. Especially when  some of (all of?) the decisions are offside. It's black and white. People will soon realise that, for offside decisions, you can't really argue with VAR.

Edited July 3, 2019 by Stevo985

[Stevo985]

1 minute ago, Davkaus said:

The penalty is the one I found interesting. We've had people moaning about 'clear and obvious' when it comes to offside, ever since VAR has been introduced, when that's never been a criteria for offside. But it should be for any foul, right?

I still don't think that was a foul, there's an absolutely miniscule amount of contact and it's initiated by the attacker. Even if you think it was a foul, however, shouldn't the 'clear and obvious error' malarky come in to it? It clearly wasn't one considering how many times it had to be played in slow motion from multiple angles to find any contact.

The "clear and obvious" stuff is nonsense, imo. I've always said that just confuses matters. It's the worst part about VAR.

 

To me VAR thinks the ref has missed something big enough to review it. The ref has reviewed it and rightly (imo) given a penalty. It doesn't matter if it's clear and obvious to me. 

And if they want to keep the clear and obvious stuff, then just let VAR make the decision. If it has to be so clear and obvious that it's an absolute certain overturn, then the on field ref doesn't need to see it.

 

For fouls it should be incidents that are worth the on field referee reviewing. The clear and obvious stuff just puts pressure on the ref to overturn it. "if it's clear and obvious then I MUST have made a mistake"

 

I'd like to think that we can agree that, whether you think it was a penalty or not, that incident is worth reviewing. I personally think they made the right decision, but I'll agree that it's certainly not "Obvious"