The Video Assistant Referee (VAR)

[El Zen]

That Werner goal looked good to me. Another one VAR should have no business looking at. 

[fightoffyour]

Wow that's the worse VAR offside of the ever-growing collection, apart from Wesley's heel walking away from goal 10 phases of play before the goal of course.

[El Zen]

1 minute ago, fightoffyour said:

Wow that's the worse VAR offside of the ever-growing collection, apart from Wesley's heel walking away from goal 10 phases of play before the goal of course.

I stil think a couple of Ollie’s were at least at bad as this one. But yeah, it stinks. 

[fightoffyour]

Just now, El Zen said:

I stil think a couple of Ollie’s were at least at bad as this one. But yeah, it stinks. 

Yeah probably, the being fouled offside off the top of my head.

For this one i meant that Werner is so clearly in line with all but his arm which is leaning so far forward because he's starting a sprint. He's in fact clearly behind Robertson who is stood upright with limbs into the body,

[Zatman]

Fulham handball to disallow them a goal. Please burn this now

[PaulC]

The fulham one fair play thats the law,  the offside Werner one no way. 

[rodders0223]

Makes me want to die 

[fightoffyour]

1 hour ago, Zatman said:

Fulham handball to disallow them a goal. Please burn this now

Yes unfortunately with this one it’s the ridiculous rule that VAR has properly enforced.

Well it’s kind of the same for the Werner offside I just complained about, though there’s much less factual evidence for that than a handball.

Edited March 4, 2021 by fightoffyour

[a m ole]

Always said, every foul should be even across the pitch in football. It’s my biggest problem with any of these rule changes, that should be a fundamental of the game.

[a-k]

Werner was 1mm ahead of a defender 20 yards away to his right, and somehow that was an advantage??

 

 

[a-k]

8 hours ago, fightoffyour said:

Yes unfortunately with this one it’s the ridiculous rule that VAR has properly enforced.

Well it’s kind of the same for the Werner offside I just complained about, though there’s much less factual evidence for that than a handball.

It was not deliberate and his arm/hand was not in an unnatural position. From what we have been told, that means no handball should be given.

[fightoffyour]

28 minutes ago, a-k said:

It was not deliberate and his arm/hand was not in an unnatural position. From what we have been told, that means no handball should be given.

That’s two separate handball offences: deliberate or the hand being in a unnatural position, and scoring directly from a handball even if accidental.

See here from IFAB via the FA:

Quote

It is an offence if a player: 

• deliberately touches the ball with their hand/arm, including moving the hand/arm towards the ball
• scores in the opponents’ goal directly from their hand/arm, even if accidental, including by the goalkeeper
• after the ball has touched their or a team-mate’s hand/arm, even if accidental, immediately:
  • scores in the opponents’ goal
  • creates a goal-scoring opportunity
• touches the ball with their hand/arm when:
  • the hand/arm has made their body unnaturally bigger
  • the hand/arm is above/beyond their shoulder level (unless the player deliberately plays the ball which then touches their hand/arm

Each of the above filled bullets is a separate offence. The hand doesn’t need to be in an unnatural position if touching it results in a goal.

 

[villa4europe]

@fightoffyour is right, it doesn't matter if it was on purpose or outside of his body or tucked away or absolutely anything - there is no accidental handball for an attacking team if they score a goal

i think they've **** the rule up though, they need to erase the line "creates a goal scoring opportunity", say it came from the rodriguez goal vs us, you can claim that his handball goal was accidental (!) the rule should be that your hand cannot put the ball in to the net regardless of it being an accident or where your hand is which i think is a fair rule

i havent seen the fulham goal just that photo, if the spurs defender has tried to smash it clear but its hit a fulham players hand, even if that hand is tucked in by his side, and then directly gone in to the net then yes i agree say no goal, if the ball has been smashed clear hit his hand then fallen to someone else who then scores the ball has not been put in the net directly from a hand so that goal should stand if the handball is accidental

 

 

[fightoffyour]

7 minutes ago, villa4europe said:

@fightoffyour is right, it doesn't matter if it was on purpose or outside of his body or tucked away or absolutely anything - there is no accidental handball for an attacking team if they score a goal

i think they've **** the rule up though, they need to erase the line "creates a goal scoring opportunity", say it came from the rodriguez goal vs us, you can claim that his handball goal was accidental (!) the rule should be that your hand cannot put the ball in to the net regardless of it being an accident or where your hand is which i think is a fair rule

i havent seen the fulham goal just that photo, if the spurs defender has tried to smash it clear but its hit a fulham players hand, even if that hand is tucked in by his side, and then directly gone in to the net then yes i agree say no goal, if the ball has been smashed clear hit his hand then fallen to someone else who then scores the ball has not been put in the net directly from a hand so that goal should stand if the handball is accidental

 

 

I’d go with that, certainly an improvement. There’s still work to do to score a goal even if there’s an advantage gained from an accidental handball. Still a bit of a grey area though if a hand is in a completely unnatural position and makes an incredible, accidental assist.

 

Hang on, why is that line “including by the goalkeeper” in the above? They can’t seriously be clarifying that a keeper attacking the opposition goal isn’t allowed to use their hand/arm to score, can they?

Edited March 5, 2021 by fightoffyour

[a-k]

19 minutes ago, villa4europe said:

@fightoffyour is right, it doesn't matter if it was on purpose or outside of his body or tucked away or absolutely anything - there is no accidental handball for an attacking team if they score a goal

i think they've **** the rule up though, they need to erase the line "creates a goal scoring opportunity", say it came from the rodriguez goal vs us, you can claim that his handball goal was accidental (!) the rule should be that your hand cannot put the ball in to the net regardless of it being an accident or where your hand is which i think is a fair rule

i havent seen the fulham goal just that photo, if the spurs defender has tried to smash it clear but its hit a fulham players hand, even if that hand is tucked in by his side, and then directly gone in to the net then yes i agree say no goal, if the ball has been smashed clear hit his hand then fallen to someone else who then scores the ball has not been put in the net directly from a hand so that goal should stand if the handball is accidental

 

 

Defender tried to smash it clear, came off Lemina to Maja who still had to strike it well, not as if he had a tap-in.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uc19hbv51oA&t=85s

Edited March 5, 2021 by a-k

[villa4europe]

6 minutes ago, a-k said:

Defender tried to smash it clear, came off Lemina to Maja who still had to strike it well, not as if he had a tap-in.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uc19hbv51oA&t=85s

yeah that's absolutely **** stupid

[ThunderPower_14]

His arm was as against his body as it possibly could have been and it was smashed into him at close range.

That's the worst chalked off goal i've ever seen. This is the first i've ever heard of a "mandatory handball" call and it's a very dumb blanket rule for situations exactly like this. If that got called against Manchester United they'd declare a national emergency.

I feel absolutely sick for them in a relegation battle to have been cost a point in that manner.

Edited March 5, 2021 by ThunderPower_14

[PaulC]

Its the rules though so var was right. 

[villa4europe]

1 hour ago, ThunderPower_14 said:

His arm was as against his body as it possibly could have been and it was smashed into him at close range.

That's the worst chalked off goal i've ever seen. This is the first i've ever heard of a "mandatory handball" call and it's a very dumb blanket rule for situations exactly like this. If that got called against Manchester United they'd declare a national emergency.

I feel absolutely sick for them in a relegation battle to have been cost a point in that manner.

nah theres been a few, its been the rule for the last 2 years, its just thats the worst one yet, im sure liverpool have got away with a few in big games (i am shocked...) chelsea got away with one vs west brom too so its not consistent

its a foul if the attacker does it but not a foul if the defender does it which is also unfair bollocks, the hudson odoi one last week in the chelsea man utd game, if he does that whilst defending its not a penalty but if he does that whilst attacking and scores then its not a goal, awful rule, PGMOL at it again

[YLN]

1 hour ago, PaulC said:

Its the rules though so var was right. 

The rule is that the handball leads immediately to a goalscoring opportunity or goes into the goal. Immediately is the important word here. If the ball hits the arm and falls to a player 2 yards out who has an open goal, then ok. But Maja does a shimmy, and then takes a touch and then shoots into the bottom corner. That was not immediate. And with that door open to allowing the goal and saying not handball because not immediate, closing the door and calling offside is disgraceful.