Stevo985 Posted December 1, 2020 Author VT Supporter Share Posted December 1, 2020 3 hours ago, PussEKatt said: I cant understand,what is the point of having a ref,two linesmen and a fourth official if they are going to be over-ruled by VAR.Might as well cut out the middle man and just have VAR. What's the point in having a ref if he can be overruled by the linesmen? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted December 1, 2020 Author VT Supporter Share Posted December 1, 2020 12 minutes ago, bobzy said: The problem with something like offside is that there's always a margin. If you rule it as "daylight", where does "daylight" become "not daylight"? Those moments of minutia are always going to exist - as frustrating as they are. Even if you give a margin of error of 10cm, you have those really tight calls. My issue with last night is that there's no common sense around what the purpose of offside is. It was brought in to stop goal hanging. If someone is gaining a clear advantage by being offside then it's offside. If they aren't, then they aren't offside. e.g: Barkley standing within Leno's eyesight didn't give any advantage as a shot was blasted into the roof of the net. Bamford having his arm offside to show where he wants the ball to be played isn't giving him an advantage. Nobody wants that nonsense. (Unpopular opinion but I didn't think it was a foul by Ogbonna. However, his action directly leads to Watkins needing to move his arms to shrug him off. Ogbonna has caused the advantage, not Watkins. Not offside.) Like I said previously, don't measure it. Review the footage in slow motion, fine. But if you have to start getting rulers out and drawing lines then it's too close to overturn the on field decision. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyblade Posted December 1, 2020 Share Posted December 1, 2020 55 minutes ago, bobzy said: The problem with something like offside is that there's always a margin. If you rule it as "daylight", where does "daylight" become "not daylight"? Those moments of minutia are always going to exist - as frustrating as they are. Even if you give a margin of error of 10cm, you have those really tight calls. My issue with last night is that there's no common sense around what the purpose of offside is. It was brought in to stop goal hanging. If someone is gaining a clear advantage by being offside then it's offside. If they aren't, then they aren't offside. e.g: Barkley standing within Leno's eyesight didn't give any advantage as a shot was blasted into the roof of the net. Bamford having his arm offside to show where he wants the ball to be played isn't giving him an advantage. Nobody wants that nonsense. (Unpopular opinion but I didn't think it was a foul by Ogbonna. However, his action directly leads to Watkins needing to move his arms to shrug him off. Ogbonna has caused the advantage, not Watkins. Not offside.) I agree with this, there's always going to be minutiae involved. The problem is, they can't even properly determine offside to the degree they claim given the limits of their technology. How can they call a 3cm offside when they use 50 fps cameras? They cant possibly be able to determine the exact moment between the ball leaves the passer's foot and when the player then becomes 3cm offside. If they use super precise technology and he's offside, then he's offside. Like you say though, a hand or arm being offside due to various reasons unrelated to the attacker gaining an advantage is silly, it's not in the spirit of the rule. He can't even score with his hand, so there really is no advantage. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThunderPower_14 Posted December 1, 2020 Share Posted December 1, 2020 1 hour ago, Stevo985 said: Like I said previously, don't measure it. Review the footage in slow motion, fine. But if you have to start getting rulers out and drawing lines then it's too close to overturn the on field decision. This is the answer for me. Give the ref a full speed replay from a couple of angles. If he can pick an offside from that, then goals can be overturned. If not, too close to call. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bannedfromHandV Posted December 1, 2020 Share Posted December 1, 2020 I said it a while back but I think the solution is to have a 1 minute window from the point of a goal being scored, broadcasters can come up with at least 5 angles of replay in that time, the 4th official should review pitch side and if he can see a clear and obvious error it should be put to a further 30-60 second review by the referee. The replays should be screened live in the stadium where possible so that everyone there can see too. The match clock should also be paused whilst this is ongoing, as it is in other sports. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted December 1, 2020 Share Posted December 1, 2020 I can’t remember where I read it now but it was a report how in Scotland’s huge penalty shoot out win last month having saved the last penalty the Scotland keeper pauses and waits, looking at the ref for concurrence that it’s valid. We’re getting to that point now with goals, it’s put it in the net and then wait for it to be ratified before celebrating (which is less intense as the moment has passed). 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted December 1, 2020 Share Posted December 1, 2020 1 hour ago, Genie said: I can’t remember where I read it now but it was a report how in Scotland’s huge penalty shoot out win last month having saved the last penalty the Scotland keeper pauses and waits, looking at the ref for concurrence that it’s valid. We’re getting to that point now with goals, it’s put it in the net and then wait for it to be ratified before celebrating (which is less intense as the moment has passed). I think they went to VAR for one of the penalties as well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Genie Posted December 1, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted December 1, 2020 (edited) 2 minutes ago, Zatman said: I think they went to VAR for one of the penalties as well The last one should have been an immediate moment of euphoria but instead it was this Have you ever seen such a thing? Basically asking permission to celebrate Edited December 1, 2020 by Genie 4 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacketspuds Posted December 2, 2020 Share Posted December 2, 2020 I'm still pissed off about the other night. To hear the hypocrisy of Moyes and Rice (shit detective duo) bleating on about how it was the right decision etc. was just embarrassing. If the decision was the other way around they would be fuming. The fact that VAR will always have support from at least 50% of everyone per match allows it to gloss over the huge issues. The rest of it can be put down to moaning bitter fans who are just complaining about not winning. The other factor is the big club mentality that is still prevalent in football. If Man Utd or Liverpool scored against West Ham it would have stood after the VAR check. For us, it was almost like they had to find a reason not to give the goal, regardless of how long it took. Dogshit. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted December 2, 2020 Share Posted December 2, 2020 1 hour ago, jacketspuds said: I'm still pissed off about the other night. To hear the hypocrisy of Moyes and Rice (shit detective duo) bleating on about how it was the right decision etc. was just embarrassing. If the decision was the other way around they would be fuming. Not only that, but Rice saying Ogbonna said he was fouled.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fightoffyour Posted December 2, 2020 VT Supporter Share Posted December 2, 2020 1 hour ago, jacketspuds said: I'm still pissed off about the other night. To hear the hypocrisy of Moyes and Rice (shit detective duo) bleating on about how it was the right decision etc. was just embarrassing. If the decision was the other way around they would be fuming. The fact that VAR will always have support from at least 50% of everyone per match allows it to gloss over the huge issues. The rest of it can be put down to moaning bitter fans who are just complaining about not winning. The other factor is the big club mentality that is still prevalent in football. If Man Utd or Liverpool scored against West Ham it would have stood after the VAR check. For us, it was almost like they had to find a reason not to give the goal, regardless of how long it took. Dogshit. Probably never going to happen, but you'd want these opposition players to come and say "no, it was the wrong decision" too. Are they worried the points will be taken back or what? They should know that the reverse situation is going to happen to them soon, probably even next week at this rate. And then what? Get shown up to be massive hypocrites? Guess they don't care, but if everyone stood against VAR, not just the ones being screwed over on any given day, then there'd be more chance of it being fixed or abolished quicker. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted December 2, 2020 Share Posted December 2, 2020 5 minutes ago, fightoffyour said: Probably never going to happen, but you'd want these opposition players to come and say "no, it was the wrong decision" too. Are they worried the points will be taken back or what? They should know that the reverse situation is going to happen to them soon, probably even next week at this rate. And then what? Get shown up to be massive hypocrites? Guess they don't care, but if everyone stood against VAR, not just the ones being screwed over on any given day, then there'd be more chance of it being fixed or abolished quicker. Potter last week said the same as Deano, I respected him for that. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fightoffyour Posted December 2, 2020 VT Supporter Share Posted December 2, 2020 1 minute ago, StefanAVFC said: Potter last week said the same as Deano, I respected him for that. Needs to stay on the Villa fans' side, he's next after Shakey in the queue when Deano leaves having won us a fourth consecutive quadruple trophy haul (the elusive quad-quad). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted December 2, 2020 Share Posted December 2, 2020 43 minutes ago, fightoffyour said: Probably never going to happen, but you'd want these opposition players to come and say "no, it was the wrong decision" too. Are they worried the points will be taken back or what? They should know that the reverse situation is going to happen to them soon, probably even next week at this rate. And then what? Get shown up to be massive hypocrites? Guess they don't care, but if everyone stood against VAR, not just the ones being screwed over on any given day, then there'd be more chance of it being fixed or abolished quicker. agree they have to be careful as to how they approach it, it cant be woe is me because the offside one especially is shit for everyone, this liVARpool stuff is nonsense, i dont think its an unfair system its just a shit system the victim routine or ranting isn't going to work, a shrug of the shoulders a look of disdain and a "its shit aint it" from a different manager every week regardless of if the decision was in their favour or not would work but its not going anywhere, FIFA want it, it'll be interesting to know if the refs like it or not, its taking a lot of flak on their behalf 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blunther Posted December 2, 2020 Share Posted December 2, 2020 4 hours ago, jacketspuds said: The fact that VAR will always have support from at least 50% of everyone per match allows it to gloss over the huge issues. The rest of it can be put down to moaning bitter fans who are just complaining about not winning. That's why it's important when we get back in the ground to voice our displeasure not just when we're affected, but when it's in our favour. I didn't like it the other night, and I didn't like it when Southampton had one disallowed against us. I'll be singing '**** VAR' at the top of my voice every time it looks like happening. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turvontour Posted December 2, 2020 Share Posted December 2, 2020 (edited) I wonder how football commentary of goals will change over time if at all. Feels like commentators are reacting to goals in normal dramatic way, then discussing possibility of var review 10 to 15 seconds later. I wonder if they're told to do that. I suppose highlights reels in years to come wont look good if they immediately say, "could be a screamer, but we need to check". Watkins scored Monday, I didnt cheer, I thought that's touch and go for offside, I'll wait to see it again from a different angle. While the commentator said something like, "Watkins has equalised, it is 2 - 2 now, and Watkins is quick to get the ball back, can Villa go on to get a winner here". All just rubbish, theory and ultimately wrong information. Agueeeerrrrooooooooooo......... might have scored. Edited December 2, 2020 by turvontour 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted December 2, 2020 Author VT Supporter Share Posted December 2, 2020 5 hours ago, StefanAVFC said: Potter last week said the same as Deano, I respected him for that. To be fair didn't Bruce do it too when they fluked a result? Came out and said it was bollocks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted December 2, 2020 Share Posted December 2, 2020 44 minutes ago, turvontour said: Agueeeerrrrooooooooooo......... might have scored. i dunno, the **** mileage tyler has got out of that aguero goal is ridiculous as it is, im sure in 2047 he'd still be being wheeled in to drag out liners about VAR disallowing it "its a sunny day today in brimingham for villa vs chelsea, just like it was when aguero had that goal disallowed thanks to VAR denying city the title" i cant think of another piece of punditry like it, he always brings it up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pelle Posted December 2, 2020 Share Posted December 2, 2020 27 minutes ago, Stevo985 said: To be fair didn't Bruce do it too when they fluked a result? Came out and said it was bollocks Yeah, they got a late penalty against spuds for a very dubious hands situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted December 2, 2020 Author VT Supporter Share Posted December 2, 2020 7 minutes ago, villa4europe said: i dunno, the **** mileage tyler has got out of that aguero goal is ridiculous as it is, im sure in 2047 he'd still be being wheeled in to drag out liners about VAR disallowing it "its a sunny day today in brimingham for villa vs chelsea, just like it was when aguero had that goal disallowed thanks to VAR denying city the title" i cant think of another piece of punditry like it, he always brings it up "That night in Barcelona" must come close 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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