Russia and its “Special Operation” in Ukraine

[trekka]

Слава Україні! Героям слава! Slava Ukraini!

Ukrainian forces have retaken control of the town of Chuhuiv in northeastern Ukraine, according to presidential adviser Oleksiy Arestovych.

We don't have any more details at this stage.

The town is in the Kharkiv region, where fighting has been heavy since Russia launched its invasion 12 days ago.

While analysists predicts Russia should have enough resources to take key parts of Ukraine, holding them could be trickier - with the potential for a drawn-out guerrilla struggle.

Advancing forces are also required to leave behind troops to hold the gained territory - so the force moving forward becomes thinner.

Sky News

[Awol]

1 minute ago, OutByEaster? said:

I wonder if we're sending more volunteers than we are accepting refugees.

I was disappointed to wake up to the news that we're now looking to take less refugees than [checks notes]...the f***ing Russians.

 

Agree completely about UK response, but Russia is siphoning civilians away by design to stop them reaching free Ukraine in the west. Humanitarian corridors are set up to terminate in Russian and Belarusian territory, so the choice is to stay and be shelled to death or go to Russia. 

[MessiWillSignForVilla]

19 minutes ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said:

I saw a couple of publications take this excerpt, and turn it into a totally different headline. They turned it into " Dzyuba faces outrage after expressing unrelenting support for Russia " or something like that.

Which was followed by inevitable ignorant comments from people who obviously never even read the article. I proper hate new media.

 

And that quote conveniently leaves out the part where Dzyuba manages to make it all about himself and play the victim whilst taking digs at Ukrainians like Mykolenko for being worried that their country is being invaded.

Also, I am so fed up of the "double standards" that keeps getting thrown around like in Dzyuba's statement, as if the only reason people care is because Russia is doing it, whilst usually pointing to the Iraq war as evidence, despite that war having some of the biggest anti-war rally's in history and was one of the largest scale co-ordinated protests ever seen.

[Genie]

8 minutes ago, OutByEaster? said:

I wonder if we're sending more volunteers than we are accepting refugees.

I was disappointed to wake up to the news that we're now looking to take less refugees than [checks notes]...the f***ing Russians.

 

It’s a bizarre situation that Russia are flattening Ukraine and have also taken over 50,000 refugees so far.

[sparrow1988]

26 minutes ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said:

I saw a couple of publications take this excerpt, and turn it into a totally different headline. They turned it into " Dzyuba faces outrage after expressing unrelenting support for Russia " or something like that.

Which was followed by inevitable ignorant comments from people who obviously never even read the article. I proper hate new media.

 

You've also not posted his whole statement, including the bits where he has a go at Ukrainian footballers calling out the silence of Russian footballers, just the bit where he says something remotely acceptable.

[avfc1982am]

I wonder if Ukrainians would have more chance of refugee status if they all came over on boats. We as a Country should be doing everything to relieve pressure on the Poles and other Nations saddled with this burden. If Ukrainians want to come here we should open our arms to them. I'm ashamed of this Country's government. They're a stain on our Nation. 

[bickster]

20 minutes ago, OutByEaster? said:

I wonder if we're sending more volunteers than we are accepting refugees.

Given its estimated that there are 16,000 volunteers from the US and UK alone and we've so far processed 50 visas, I'd say most definitely yes

[ml1dch]

15 minutes ago, Genie said:

It’s a bizarre situation that Russia are flattening Ukraine and have also taken over 50,000 refugees so far.

Given the parts of the county that have seen some of the heaviest attacks are those with large ethnically-Russian populations, it wouldn't be a big surprise that those people might (a) try to leave and (b) leave in the direction of Russia. 

[Ingram85]

3 hours ago, Awol said:

What a bizarre post. 

Why is it?

[osmark86]

10 minutes ago, Ingram85 said:

Why is it?

imo it wasn't a bizarre post at all. just looking at statements of far-right parties here in Sweden it's quite clear that they rank people differently. the major far-right party SD in Sweden has come out and said yes to refugees from Ukraine "even though Sweden is full". go figure...

direct quote from one of their spokespersons Aron Emilsson: 

Quote

“Ukraina är en del av vårt geografiska och kulturella närområde och då anser vi att vi har en har en högre moralisk och praktisk möjlighet att ta emot”

translation:

"Ukraine is part of our geographical and cultural neighborhood and then we believe that we have a higher moral and practical opportunity to receive"

 

Edited March 7, 2022 by osmark86

[JAMAICAN-VILLAN]

55 minutes ago, MessiWillSignForVilla said:

And that quote conveniently leaves out the part where Dzyuba manages to make it all about himself and play the victim whilst taking digs at Ukrainians like Mykolenko for being worried that their country is being invaded.

Also, I am so fed up of the "double standards" that keeps getting thrown around like in Dzyuba's statement, as if the only reason people care is because Russia is doing it, whilst usually pointing to the Iraq war as evidence, despite that war having some of the biggest anti-war rally's in history and was one of the largest scale co-ordinated protests ever seen.

I'm not really seeing how he made it about himself if I'm honest. It's obvious he was getting bombarded with abuse, and probably questions about why he wasn't speaking out, as a Russian and responded. ( I mean, he said as much in the extended version above )

He also goes on to speak about why random Russians etc are getting the brunt of all of it for a situation most of them have no control of.

This is another case of taking whatever we want from a post IMO.

With regards to the " semantics " about tit for tat and who protests more against whatever war.

FYI, 37 civilians were bombed and killed in Yemen, just yesterday for example. So let's not even go there.

My focus with sharing that, was just an example of media spin, and them all now being the enemy. They weaponised it, and shared it, for a desired effect, with ease.

Edited March 7, 2022 by JAMAICAN-VILLAN

[KentVillan]

Just now, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said:

I'm not really seeing how he made it about himself if I'm honest. It's obvious he was getting bombarded with abuse, and probably questions about why he wasn't speaking out, and responded.

He also goes on to speak about why ransom Russians etc are getting the brunt of all of it for a situation most of them have no control of.

This is another case of taking whatever we want from a post IMO.

With regards to the " semantics " about tit for tat and who protests more against whatever war.

FYI, 37 civilians were bombed and killed in Yemen, jast yesterday for example. So let's not even go there.

My focus with sharing that, was just an example of media spin, and them all now being the enemy. Lol

I feel like you’re trying to “play Devil’s advocate” but doing it by saying things that aren’t true, aren’t relevant, or are framed in a misleading way.

It’s so easy to say the mainstream media are misleading people, but most of the content in this thread is coming from expert sources / open source intelligence / etc.

What point are you trying to make that people in this thread don’t already accept? That the world is complicated and not all Russians are bad!? Does anyone here disagree? I’m baffled by what you feel you’re getting out of this.

 

[JAMAICAN-VILLAN]

51 minutes ago, sparrow1988 said:

You've also not posted his whole statement, including the bits where he has a go at Ukrainian footballers calling out the silence of Russian footballers, just the bit where he says something remotely acceptable.

So he's got no right to defend himself, because he happens to be Russian?

Sorry but I'm not subscribing to that Bollox. Humans are humans, regardless of circumstance.

Obviously he was staying silent, as to not stir anything up one way or the other, but that doesn't please people now either, and that goes across the board with everything in modern society 

Note: I lifted the initial quote from a friend, as that is all he posted. Upon reading the whole thing, I still think people are just being unreasonable due to the situation.

What do they expect him to do? What would please them? 

[bannedfromHandV]

5 minutes ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said:

I'm not really seeing how he made it about himself if I'm honest. It's obvious he was getting bombarded with abuse, and probably questions about why he wasn't speaking out, as a Russian and responded. ( I mean, he said as much in the extended version above )

He also goes on to speak about why random Russians etc are getting the brunt of all of it for a situation most of them have no control of.

This is another case of taking whatever we want from a post IMO.

With regards to the " semantics " about tit for tat and who protests more against whatever war.

FYI, 37 civilians were bombed and killed in Yemen, just yesterday for example. So let's not even go there.

My focus with sharing that, was just an example of media spin, and them all now being the enemy. They weaponised it, and shared it, for a desired effect, with ease.

Struggling to understand your position on all this.

So because there’s bad stuff happening in other locations around the world, we should all just shut up and not criticise the ongoing invasion of Ukraine?

[Awol]

22 minutes ago, Ingram85 said:

Why is it?

Government said it was going to allow up to 3 million ethnically Chinese people from Hong Kong relocate to the UK. If there was any public pushback to that then I missed it, what I did see / hear was a broad acceptance that it was the right thing to do.

Government for whatever reason is being too slow by half over expediting entry for Ukrainian refugees, and the usual dingleberries are on straight on the wElL iTs Cos ThE pUbLiC is RaCIsT bus.

It’s annoying, patently untrue, and a bizarre thing to post. 

[JAMAICAN-VILLAN]

7 minutes ago, KentVillan said:

I feel like you’re trying to “play Devil’s advocate” but doing it by saying things that aren’t true, aren’t relevant, or are framed in a misleading way.

It’s so easy to say the mainstream media are misleading people, but most of the content in this thread is coming from expert sources / open source intelligence / etc.

What point are you trying to make that people in this thread don’t already accept? That the world is complicated and not all Russians are bad!? Does anyone here disagree? I’m baffled by what you feel you’re getting out of this.

 

Which part of what I've said is " untrue " exactly? We are talking about a global issue, which means I can pull from what I'm seeing happen on a global scale.

The overwhelming sentiment I see every day, down to the most petty of things, is that people generally now see Russians as " enemies " by default. Or perhaps it's better to say, they are being treated with disdain by default.

Why would I come on here and just make stuff up?

A poster earlier in the thread even said they've had to stop working with a Russian client.

Russian items are being taken off shelves, this all affects average Russians, even expat Russians.

I haven't come on here and accused anyone on the board of such. We were talking about a statement from a Russian footballer, so how have we made this leap?

Edited March 7, 2022 by JAMAICAN-VILLAN

[MakemineVanilla]

1 hour ago, trekka said:

Real-life footage of poor innocent civilians losing their lives is not propaganda.  Neither is the footage of e.g. the Sky News team just about getting away with their lives.  Propaganda would be the Russians claiming that Ukraine is a Nazist state. 

Proganda is not all about telling lies, although it is often is.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propaganda

'Propaganda is communication that is primarily used to influence an audience and further an agenda...'

Its all about achieving an effect.

I think it amounts to psychological abuse.

[JAMAICAN-VILLAN]

12 minutes ago, bannedfromHandV said:

Struggling to understand your position on all this.

So because there’s bad stuff happening in other locations around the world, we should all just shut up and not criticise the ongoing invasion of Ukraine?

Oh Jesus Christ.

The person who responded to the initial post, is who brought up " double standards " by the footballer saying that about Iraq etc.

So I then pointed out that I wasn't even going in that direction, and that if I wanted to, I could highlight that 37 Civilians were killed in Yemen just yesterday. ( Or the day before )

How TF has that now changed into me Intimating the above in bold??

I'm obviously speaking in Clingong.

Not sure why I've been " groundhog day " ING myself in here.

I tried to share something I thought would relate to the subject, but was relatively light and would avoid controversy

I was wrong. Again.

Edited March 7, 2022 by JAMAICAN-VILLAN

[MessiWillSignForVilla]

10 minutes ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said:

I'm not really seeing how he made it about himself if I'm honest. It's obvious he was getting bombarded with abuse, and probably questions about why he wasn't speaking out, as a Russian and responded. ( I mean, he said as much in the extended version above )

He also goes on to speak about why random Russians etc are getting the brunt of all of it for a situation most of them have no control of.

This is another case of taking whatever we want from a post IMO.

With regards to the " semantics " about tit for tat and who protests more against whatever war.

FYI, 37 civilians were bombed and killed in Yemen, just yesterday for example. So let's not even go there.

My focus with sharing that, was just an example of media spin, and them all now being the enemy. They weaponised it, and shared it, for a desired effect, with ease.

The part where in response to people asking for him to speak out about it he immediately tried to turn it in to people criticising him for being Russian and saying "athletes have to suffer" whilst the Russian military is shelling civilians in Ukraine. He could've just said nothing and people would've understood that he may not have wanted to risk the consequences of speaking out.

The comment about double standards wasn't aimed at you, it was just something that annoyed me when reading Dzyuba's post again, but yeah, you totally got me, I was completely unaware about the Yemen civil war despite being furious over the Newcastle takeover and voting in our last election for the party that pledged to suspend arms sales to Saudi Arabia due to it's human rights abuse and role in the civil war. It is possible to care about different instances of war crimes at the same time you know.

[JAMAICAN-VILLAN]

8 minutes ago, MessiWillSignForVilla said:

The part where in response to people asking for him to speak out about it he immediately tried to turn it in to people criticising him for being Russian and saying "athletes have to suffer" whilst the Russian military is shelling civilians in Ukraine. He could've just said nothing and people would've understood that he may not have wanted to risk the consequences of speaking out.

The comment about double standards wasn't aimed at you, it was just something that annoyed me when reading Dzyuba's post again, but yeah, you totally got me, I was completely unaware about the Yemen civil war despite being furious over the Newcastle takeover and voting in our last election for the party that pledged to suspend arms sales to Saudi Arabia due to it's human rights abuse and role in the civil war. It is possible to care about different instances of war crimes at the same time you know.

I think this is one of those situations where you are damned if you do, damned if you don't.

However yeah, silence is probably the best move, unless you are really going to say something groundbreaking.

Sidenote: There was a gymnastiic competetion here in Qatar a couple days ago.

The Russian gymnast was wearing the Z on his uniform ( Prick, considering he was competing against Ukrainians as well ).

The llittle bit of instant karmaz was the fact that the Ukrainian won the competetion, and that prick had to stand up on the podium, in 3rd place.

Now you see, that's a situation where I call someone a prized prick, who you can probably lump in with the others,.and deserves whatever he gets 

https://www.skysports.com/more-sports/other-sports/news/29877/12559533/ivan-kuliak-gymnast-faces-disciplinary-action-after-appearing-to-wear-russian-war-symbol-on-podium

Edited March 7, 2022 by JAMAICAN-VILLAN