TRO Posted May 30, 2018 Share Posted May 30, 2018 (edited) 12 minutes ago, flashingqwerty said: i agree with most of what you say here Tro which is why so many of SBs transfers baffle me. Its like he looked at whoscored and just selected the players with the best scores he could get without thinking about balance, style, shape or tactics. Im sure he isnt alone in those decisions but he is culpable. We should never have signed Hogan for instance and i dont think Grabban was the right call either despite his modest success. Id have loved crouch to return. I think cases could be made for lansbury, onamah, tuanzebe, they were just what could be got not what was needed - numbers over contribution. Put shortly SB frustrates me. He admits when he makes a mistake, great, but he will proceed to continually make and admit the same mistake ad neausium (sp?). i dont see that changing and thus why proted or not, i dodnt want him in charge. I agree wholeheartedly. but where i struggle is......a new manager may very well not get all the things right and when we realise that another couple of years of disruption has passed. The man in the seat has to have wriggle room to get decisions right....we embarked on a one wonder season and we all know what that has given us....now rethink. we have just come from a plane crash of a club.....to marginally missing out on promotion in 18 months.....a lot of good stuff had to have been done to acheive that. The AMOUNT of issues, thoughts and decisions that were required in those early days will be limited now, sure big decisions still have to be made, but there will be less of them and hopefully more focus time can be employed. we need evolution not revolution. Edited May 30, 2018 by TRO 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomaszk Posted May 30, 2018 Share Posted May 30, 2018 5 minutes ago, TRO said: I agree wholeheartedly. but where i struggle is......a new manager may very well not get all the things right and when we realise that another couple of years of disruption has passed. So... Bruce has got them wrong. A new man might get them wrong. But Bruce already has? And we should stick with the man who has definitely already got so much wrong? I don't understand. "Wonder season" Give me strength. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted May 30, 2018 Share Posted May 30, 2018 (edited) 46 minutes ago, jacketspuds said: The biggest concern for me is that Bruce is unlikely to have Terry, Johnstone and Snodgrass available next season. 3 players who were extremely important to the squad, particularly with Bruce's need for experienced players. I just can't see Bruce making it work if we can't bring in suitable replacements for these 3. 34 minutes ago, striker said: And who would have thought that TRO? Not sure what you mean? but no team is without issues....I am just trying to observe or analyse for my sins. constant criticism can be wearing and tedious....i go more for observations. We had folk ridiculing us in the early eighties with our 110 % wortk rate Mantra and Ipswich the darlings of the first touch.....so football has changed they tell me. Neil warnock the dinosaur has just got his lot up....its a throw away comment that is populist, but means nothing.he has a style he believes in and it works at this level. In 1980 we had 2 dominant central defenders and one dominant centre forward.....thats where i think we have come up a bit short.....i think ours have been decent containers and have displayed some good work, but dominant particularly in the air, no not for me....and i think the inclusion of Jed has highlighted that. a centre forward for me particulary at this level needs to physically work the centre halves....i haven't seen much of that....at this level, i like to see them that like heading the ball too. but hey ho!......we all have our own idea's Edited May 30, 2018 by TRO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flashingqwerty Posted May 30, 2018 VT Supporter Share Posted May 30, 2018 12 minutes ago, TRO said: I agree wholeheartedly. but where i struggle is......a new manager may very well not get all the things right and when we realise that another couple of years of disruption has passed. The man in the seat has to have wriggle room to get decisions right....we embarked on a one wonder season and we all know what that has given us....now rethink. we have just come from a plane crash of a club.....to marginally missing out on promotion in 18 months.....a lot of good stuff had to have been done to acheive that. The AMOUNT of issues, thoughts and decisions that were required in those early days will be limited now, sure big decisions still have to be made, but there will be less of them and hopefully more focus time can be employed. we need evolution not revolution. thats the thing though SB was specifically brought in as a short term fix to get us up. it/he hasnt worked to that end and due to ffp next season will be another rebuild regardless of who is in charge. As we are coming into a time of severe austerity a short term fix to me at least is no longer an option and SB is not the man to instill a new era of longetivity and forward planning. i can say this with some certainty as he has never done it in his career but has had opportunity. As a club as the highest level we need to decide what type of club we want to be and start putting structures in place to build to that end. there is no evidence of ' a villa way' to date. the u23 side dont play the same style as the 1st team making integration harder than it should be. We need to pick a style and apply it from grass roots to 1st team and choose our coaches and our players based on that style. i think anything short of this will either see us remain in the 2nd tier for a very long time or become a yoyo club. i dont fancy us being that so id rather we stop now and accept some mediocity while we build something sustainable for the future than continue being an also ran. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flashingqwerty Posted May 30, 2018 VT Supporter Share Posted May 30, 2018 1 minute ago, TRO said: Not sure what you mean? but no team is without issues....I am just trying to observe or analyse for my sins. constant criticism can be wearing and tedious. We had folk ridiculing us in the early eighties with our 110 % wortk rate Mantra and Ipswich the darlings of the first touch.....so football has changed they tell me. Neil warnock the dinosaur has just got his lot up. In 1980 we had 2 dominant central defenders and one dominant centre forward.....thats where i think we have come up a bit short.....i think ours have been decent containers and have displayed some good work, but dominant particularly in the air, no not for me. a centre forward for me particulary at this level needs to physically work the centre halves....i haven't seen much of that....at this level, i like to see them that like heading the ball. but hey ho!......we all have our own idea's davis is the only player we have that plays that way 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vive_La_Villa Posted May 30, 2018 Share Posted May 30, 2018 I have a feeling th majority want a change of manager or are not overly concerned either way. I’m in the latter camp. I’d be surprised if there are many fans that feel passionately about Bruce remaining. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted May 30, 2018 Share Posted May 30, 2018 (edited) 35 minutes ago, Tomaszk said: So... Bruce has got them wrong. A new man might get them wrong. But Bruce already has? And we should stick with the man who has definitely already got so much wrong? I don't understand. "Wonder season" Give me strength. Bruce has got things wrong......but he also got a lot right don't labour on cheap shots of terminology, you know what i am saying, even if you disagree. We went about recruiting top players who have proved themselves in the prem....the trade off which created a gamble was their stamina and pace....we can all be wise after the event.....I had my doubts about certain aspects of our play all season, but chose to see it out without constant criticism...that was my choice. Where we differ, i think is.....I think he has got SO much right, but some things wrong. I think we come close, which means much was right and but the nose over the line was wrong. If you think it wise to rip all that up and start again, with no evidence of possibly fixing that nose.....I simply don't agree with you.....but don't misconstrue my comments to interpret that i have been happy with everything on display. Edited May 30, 2018 by TRO 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted May 30, 2018 Share Posted May 30, 2018 (edited) 40 minutes ago, flashingqwerty said: davis is the only player we have that plays that way Yes, he is and there are aspects of his play that are good.....but still too underdeveloped for me. Edited May 30, 2018 by TRO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacketspuds Posted May 30, 2018 Share Posted May 30, 2018 In my opinion we need to bring in a manager that can make the most of the £24m we spent on Kodjia and Hogan. No idea who that is but we have to have a manager for the squad we have, not have a manager that can only try to shoe-horn the available players in to his style of play. This is even more important if we can't really bolster the squad this summer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeyAnty Posted May 30, 2018 Share Posted May 30, 2018 1 hour ago, PieFacE said: If Bruce can't get this team promoted with one of the best squads in the division, there's no chance it's going to happen if we lose most of our good players. Need someone to come in with fresh ideas who will look at our youth players more, rather than signing "experienced" players. Agree. Always said Villa are to big a club for Bruce. Bruce's previous success came with smaller clubs and the onus wasn't on them to take the game to the opposition. They werent a big scalp for other teams unlike Villa. Sadly i now think our ship has sailed and we are going to be an average team with the cuts. As much as it kills me to say it, someone like big Sam would be the man to get us up. Be shocking to watch but we wont have the quality to play any other way and get promoted. Once the job is done he can F off. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vive_La_Villa Posted May 30, 2018 Share Posted May 30, 2018 The more I read about the clubs financial problems and even possible transfer embargo’s it’s leaving me thinking the agenda for next season could even become remaining in the league. If things are as bad as reports suggest then it’s probably best we remain with Bruce. I’d be confident he’d prevent relegation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hippo Posted May 30, 2018 Share Posted May 30, 2018 39 minutes ago, flashingqwerty said: We need to pick a style and apply it from grass roots to 1st team and choose our coaches and our players based on that style. i think anything short of this will either see us remain in the 2nd tier for a very long time or become a yoyo club. i dont fancy us being that so id rather we stop now and accept some mediocity while we build something sustainable for the future than continue being an also ran. Not that I agree its as simple as that - but thats what Steve Round was brought in for - and supposedly does. To be honest Jack Burst through, beating a man , getting it to albert in the first 11 - how is that different to o'hare beating a man, and getting it to green in the u23's ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted May 30, 2018 Share Posted May 30, 2018 I have always thought. teams score goals.....individuals just finish the moves off. just buying goal scorers on their ability alone to notch up numbers is a mistake in my book. Guy Whittingham Tony cascarino Gestede and so on.....when players like Paul Walsh and Teddy Sheringham, respectively set them up. We need a clear structure of who does what, not an assembly of reputations from elsewhere. I think Steve Bruce can do it......But I also think he needs to get a clear message, that thats what we want. No more plasters, no more patches.....build the real thing, even if it takes more than this season. I still think the pressure of getting us up so quick has clouded his judgment. "so quick" in our eyes and "so quick" in their eyes maybe two different things. I guess the money men and fans are on the same page....bit I wonder, if the football men are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted May 30, 2018 Share Posted May 30, 2018 59 minutes ago, flashingqwerty said: thats the thing though SB was specifically brought in as a short term fix to get us up. it/he hasnt worked to that end and due to ffp next season will be another rebuild regardless of who is in charge. As we are coming into a time of severe austerity a short term fix to me at least is no longer an option and SB is not the man to instill a new era of longetivity and forward planning. i can say this with some certainty as he has never done it in his career but has had opportunity. As a club as the highest level we need to decide what type of club we want to be and start putting structures in place to build to that end. there is no evidence of ' a villa way' to date. the u23 side dont play the same style as the 1st team making integration harder than it should be. We need to pick a style and apply it from grass roots to 1st team and choose our coaches and our players based on that style. i think anything short of this will either see us remain in the 2nd tier for a very long time or become a yoyo club. i dont fancy us being that so id rather we stop now and accept some mediocity while we build something sustainable for the future than continue being an also ran. Can't argue with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vive_La_Villa Posted May 30, 2018 Share Posted May 30, 2018 2 hours ago, flashingqwerty said: thats the thing though SB was specifically brought in as a short term fix to get us up. it/he hasnt worked to that end and due to ffp next season will be another rebuild regardless of who is in charge. As we are coming into a time of severe austerity a short term fix to me at least is no longer an option and SB is not the man to instill a new era of longetivity and forward planning. i can say this with some certainty as he has never done it in his career but has had opportunity. As a club as the highest level we need to decide what type of club we want to be and start putting structures in place to build to that end. there is no evidence of ' a villa way' to date. the u23 side dont play the same style as the 1st team making integration harder than it should be. We need to pick a style and apply it from grass roots to 1st team and choose our coaches and our players based on that style. i think anything short of this will either see us remain in the 2nd tier for a very long time or become a yoyo club. i dont fancy us being that so id rather we stop now and accept some mediocity while we build something sustainable for the future than continue being an also ran. Sign up Dean Smith and the whole of Brentford’s back room staff. Imagine if we could build a football philosophy like they have but with more money and better youth players to utilise. Swansea and Bournemouth managed to do it and walked this league so why can’t we? Ok I’ll probably get hammered for using Dean Smith and Brentford as an example but we all know the point. Guess it’s much easier said than done. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pacbuddies Posted May 30, 2018 Share Posted May 30, 2018 I have a classic Ferrari from the 1980s in need of a full restoration. Two years ago I hired a mechanic that had been trained on Austin Minis back in the 1960s. I gave him loads of cash and a toolkit that any modern day mechanic would kill for. Two years later he has spent all the cash and the car is still in bits. I am a bit strapped at the moment so I can't afford to give him anymore money and I have had to sell the toolkit. Hopefully in 12 months time the car will be back to its former glory. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted May 30, 2018 VT Supporter Share Posted May 30, 2018 1 hour ago, Vive_La_Villa said: Sign up Dean Smith and the whole of Brentford’s back room staff. Imagine if we could build a football philosophy like they have but with more money and better youth players to utilise. Swansea and Bournemouth managed to do it and walked this league so why can’t we? Ok I’ll probably get hammered for using Dean Smith and Brentford as an example but we all know the point. Guess it’s much easier said than done. It would never happen here. It would take more than a season, comfortably, to implement a whole new philosophy. Smith and his team would be hounded out long before the seeds he planted began to sprout. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAMAICAN-VILLAN Posted May 30, 2018 Share Posted May 30, 2018 9 minutes ago, Stevo985 said: It would never happen here. It would take more than a season, comfortably, to implement a whole new philosophy. Smith and his team would be hounded out long before the seeds he planted began to sprout. Doctor has just made a statement, references changes are coming, but also thanking the manager and praising us fighting as a team. Not sure what t make of it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrassyNoel Posted May 30, 2018 Share Posted May 30, 2018 5 minutes ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said: Doctor has just made a statement, references changes are coming, but also thanking the manager and praising us fighting as a team. Not sure what t make of it. Vague news eh? He’s not giving much away there re SB, either decision could be read into that. More positively, it seems like Dr T is staying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eastie Posted May 30, 2018 Share Posted May 30, 2018 10 minutes ago, GrassyNoel said: Vague news eh? He’s not giving much away there re SB, either decision could be read into that. More positively, it seems like Dr T is staying. I don’t see Bruce staying now - he left hull for financial reasons - and this is much worse - the talk of major changes and nothing to say Bruce will lead us through this suggests to me a Bruce departure is imminent . ‘Maybe steve will release his own statement ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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