Steve Bruce

[markavfc40]

15 hours ago, DCJonah said:

Well it's the toughest job going and a club in complete turmoil and yet pretty much every manager at this level would jump at the chance. 

That's because in reality it wasn't as bad as you make out. We were under performing but it was a squad full of proven quality at this level, it was under an ambitious owner with the promise of large funds in upcoming transfer windows and the kind of club that can attract the best quality in the league. 

Of course any manager worth his salt should want to take it. We are the biggest club at this level and still potentially one of the top 8 clubs in the country. In the grand scheme of things not many clubs have the potential we do. I think if you back yourself as a manager then no job in this league is bigger or potentially better if you get it right.

I am not sure that you could say things were not as bad as some make out when he arrived though. He came into a  club that had won once all season in 12 league and cup games including a game against 4th tier opposition, a club that had won 5 games over the previous 18 months, a club that hadn't won away from home in 14 months. Yes his predecessor spent an absolute fortune for this level over the summer before he arrived. The only way that makes the huge difference that was needed, given the 6 years of decline and the dire season before, is if that money was spent well. In hindsight a lot of it wasn't. Tshibola at 5 mill, McCormack at 12 mill look like money down the drain. Then you have the likes of Elphick and Gollini. I'll be honest I looked at what we did over that summer and I thought we'll be fine. I was suckered in by the big talk and the big cheques being signed. The problems at this club were so ingrained though that the only way spending was going to be the quick fix is if that money was spent really well and it wasn't.

I actually think where Bruce has got it very right so far is in his transfer business. Overall he has made something like a 15 mill net profit on transfers and as seemingly balanced the books in terms of wages. He hasn't so much has been backed as been very astute in the business he/the club have done whilst he has been here. We have whilst he has been here turned a very decent profit whilst assembling what is now for me the best squad in this division.

What he now has to do is get the best out of the squad he has assembled and over the last 5 or 6 weeks he has done that. He now needs that to continue to prove this isn't a false dawn. That isn't to say we need to win the next 2,3,4,5 games otherwise we get on his back . What he needs to do is over the next 4 or 5 games take an amount of points that pushes us forward. 

We may well lose tonight. We are playing one of the best teams in the division away from home. If we do it isn't the end of the world though. What matters then is how we respond and if we can again kick on. I hope we don't get into a scenario of going from game to game and that as soon as we do lose some of us really turn on him and disregard a handful of good results when the odd defeat comes along which it inevitably will. We have to see beyond that.

Edited October 14, 2017 by markavfc40

[TrentVilla]

34 minutes ago, markavfc40 said:

 I hope we don't get into a scenario of going from game to game and that as soon as we do lose some of us really turn on him and disregard a handful of good results when the odd defeat comes along which it inevitably will. We have to see beyond that.

The problem is it is only a handful of good results. Overall the 12 months he has been here hasn’t been very good.

The recent good form is the exception rather than the rule so until that turns around a bad result will be met with criticism because there haven’t been enough good performance for people to have changed their minds.

 

[markavfc40]

45 minutes ago, TrentVilla said:

The problem is it is only a handful of good results. Overall the 12 months he has been here hasn’t been very good.

The recent good form is the exception rather than the rule so until that turns around a bad result will be met with criticism because there haven’t been enough good performance for people to have changed their minds.

 

Well if we lose tonight it is one defeat in 9. Win next week it is one defeat in 10. I certainly won't be getting into a routine of slashing my wrists one week and blowing up party balloons the next. For me you have to put things into a bigger picture and perspective.

I agree overall it hasn't been great but it hasn't been poor either. I personally think given the state the club was in and the stench of a losers mentality that was still running through it when he arrived that 71 points from 46 games is okay. It would over the course of a season be a handful of points from a play off place.

What we need now is some consistency. To maintain that 2 points a game average we have shown over the last 8 games (it has actually been more than that). That doesn't mean we have to win tonight. It means over the next 4 or 5 games we have to get the 8/10 points plus. If we do then I'd like to think more people will then be on board with backing the manager. If we don't then more will have doubts, including me, and he will again come under pressure. He won't be under pressure if we lose tonight though.

[TrentVilla]

11 minutes ago, markavfc40 said:

Well if we lose tonight it is one defeat in 9. Win next week it is one defeat in 10. I certainly won't be getting into a routine of slashing my wrists one week and blowing up party balloons the next. For me you have to put things into a bigger picture and perspective.

I agree overall it hasn't been great but it hasn't been poor either. I personally think given the state the club was in and the stench of a losers mentality that was still running through it when he arrived that 71 points from 46 games is okay. It would over the course of a season be a handful of points from a play off place.

What we need now is some consistency. To maintain that 2 points a game average we have shown over the last 8 games (it has actually been more than that). That doesn't mean we have to win tonight. It means over the next 4 or 5 games we have to get the 8/10 points plus. If we do then I'd like to think more people will then be on board with backing the manager. If we don't then more will have doubts, including me, and he will again come under pressure. He won't be under pressure if we lose tonight though.

I hate it when we start talking about the bigger picture, it implies they’ve a more expansive rounded view of things than those who think differently. It’s pretty paronising.

I think Bruce’s record over the last year hasnt been very good for the most part with two purple patches of good form, only the later of which has come with decent performances.

That form over a season being just off a play off place isn’t good enough in my view.

On your later point I agree, he won’t be under pressure if he loses today. My point was though that he hasn’t yet done enough to alter the views people formed over the last 11 months.

[dn1982]

9 minutes ago, markavfc40 said:

Well if we lose tonight it is one defeat in 9. Win next week it is one defeat in 10. I certainly won't be getting into a routine of slashing my wrists one week and blowing up party balloons the next. For me you have to put things into a bigger picture and perspective.

I agree overall it hasn't been great but it hasn't been poor either. I personally think given the state the club was in and the stench of a losers mentality that was still running through it when he arrived that 71 points from 46 games is okay. It would over the course of a season be a handful of points from a play off place.

What we need now is some consistency. To maintain that 2 points a game average we have shown over the last 8 games (it has actually been more than that). That doesn't mean we have to win tonight. It means over the next 4 or 5 games we have to get the 8/10 points plus. If we do then I'd like to think more people will then be on board with backing the manager. If we don't then more will have doubts, including me, and he will again come under pressure. He won't be under pressure if we lose tonight though.

We can all pick an amount of games to back up an argument. Ultimately though until we are firmly in the top 2 Bruce will be underacheiving in most fans eyes. That's why these next 5 games are so important. We actually play teams that are going to be involved. My concern is so far this season we've not beat anyone yet who will be. We've improved but have we improved enough? Today is the start of finding that answer out. I just hope he doesn't flap it like Bristol and change to match them to much. We can outscore any team in this league. 

[markavfc40]

15 minutes ago, TrentVilla said:

I hate it when we start talking about the bigger picture, it implies they’ve a more expansive rounded view of things than those who think differently. It’s pretty paronising.

I think Bruce’s record over the last year has been poor for the most part with two purple patches of good form, only the later of which has come with decent performances.

That form over a season being just off a play off place isn’t good enough in my view.

On your later point I agree, he won’t be under pressure if he loses today. My point was though that he hasn’t yet done enough to alter the views people formed over the last 11 months.

I didn't mean to be patronising. You yourself though are looking over the past year so looking at the bigger picture. I am doing the same and coming up with a different view point that is all.

I am on the fence with Bruce mate. I neither back him 100% or am looking to jump on his back. After the Brentford game I would have happily seen the back of him and came on here and said as much. Now I am happy for him to continue. That opinion won't change tonight but it may well do if over the next handful of games we haven't taken a decent return.

As I have said previously what this club desperately needs is some stability and in that regard I am desperate for Bruce to be the right man and I think the club recognises that need which is why they have shown the patience not shown in the past and allowed a poor run of results without pulling the trigger. As things stand today that is starting to look like the right decision. I guess we all hope that remains the case until the end of the season. 

Edited October 14, 2017 by markavfc40

[TrentVilla]

1 minute ago, markavfc40 said:

I didn't mean to be patronising. You yourself though are looking over the past year so looking at the bigger picture. I am doing the same and coming up with a different view point that is all.

I am on the fence with Bruce mate. I neither back him 100% or am looking to jump on his back. After the Brentford game I would have happily seen the back off him and came on here and said as much. Now I am happy for him to continue. That opinion won't change tonight but it may well do if over the next handful of games we haven't taken a decent return.

As I have said previously what this club desperately needs is some stability and in that regard I am desperate for Bruce to be the right man and I think the club recognises that need which is why they have shown the patience not shown in the past and allowed a poor run of results without pulling the trigger and as things stand today that is starting to look like the right decision. I guess we all hope that remains the case until the end of the season. 

Fair enough, it’s just a turn of phrase I really dislike, generally not just in your post.

I would of sacked him at a couple of points in  August, for me he is still only a bad run of form away from being out the door. I think he was very close to losing his job at one point and rightly so.

The club needs stability, but it also needs promotion we can’t aford not to go up and for that reason we can’t stick with a manager who doesn’t look like achieving that. I’m still not at all convinced Bruce will take us up.

That won’t really change win, lose or draw today.

[Eastie]

No doubt Bruce could have been sacked and wouldn’t really have had much room for complaint earlier in the season - however he has bought some time now with recent results and I hope he now trusts the players to play to their strengths - there is nothing to fear in this league and that includes wolves .

today will be very interesting to see how we do and there is no reason we shouldn’t go there and win - a huge month of games coming up which will test us but I feel we have the players to succeed if the manager lets them play .

[DCJonah]

2 hours ago, markavfc40 said:

Of course any manager worth his salt should want to take it. We are the biggest club at this level and still potentially one of the top 8 clubs in the country. In the grand scheme of things not many clubs have the potential we do. I think if you back yourself as a manager then no job in this league is bigger or potentially better if you get it right.

I am not sure that you could say things were not as bad as some make out when he arrived though. He came into a  club that had won once all season in 12 league and cup games including a game against 4th tier opposition, a club that had won 5 games over the previous 18 months, a club that hadn't won away from home in 14 months. Yes his predecessor spent an absolute fortune for this level over the summer before he arrived. The only way that makes the huge difference that was needed, given the 6 years of decline and the dire season before, is if that money was spent well. In hindsight a lot of it wasn't. Tshibola at 5 mill, McCormack at 12 mill look like money down the drain. Then you have the likes of Elphick and Gollini. I'll be honest I looked at what we did over that summer and I thought we'll be fine. I was suckered in by the big talk and the big cheques being signed. The problems at this club were so ingrained though that the only way spending was going to be the quick fix is if that money was spent really well and it wasn't.

I actually think where Bruce has got it very right so far is in his transfer business. Overall he has made something like a 15 mill net profit on transfers and as seemingly balanced the books in terms of wages. He hasn't so much has been backed as been very astute in the business he/the club have done whilst he has been here. We have whilst he has been here turned a very decent profit whilst assembling what is now for me the best squad in this division.

What he now has to do is get the best out of the squad he has assembled and over the last 5 or 6 weeks he has done that. He now needs that to continue to prove this isn't a false dawn. That isn't to say we need to win the next 2,3,4,5 games otherwise we get on his back . What he needs to do is over the next 4 or 5 games take an amount of points that pushes us forward. 

We may well lose tonight. We are playing one of the best teams in the division away from home. If we do it isn't the end of the world though. What matters then is how we respond and if we can again kick on. I hope we don't get into a scenario of going from game to game and that as soon as we do lose some of us really turn on him and disregard a handful of good results when the odd defeat comes along which it inevitably will. We have to see beyond that.

Until he actually gets on track to finally meet a target (something he's failed to do since being here) then I fully expect each game to be judged. Why would we care about a handful of decent results previously while we sit outside the playoffs? Every point lost keeps us further away from our target. 

If we were top 2 or even top 6 then I could understand your last paragraph but until then absolutely no way. 

[Eastie]

A win today would put us 2 points off the top whatever any other results are elsewhere today - this is our chance to really get back in the hunt and atone for the poor start ; we have many big game players who should be able to handle the pressure - Bruce must get it right today in his choice of left back and I pray hutton is not in that role .

ith the likes of Grealish and Jedi back soon as well it really is a great chance to push ourselves into the frame - no more of this negative approach - grasp the  wolf by the balls and let’s show who are the kings of the midlands !

[KSV]

Forget September. We didnt play anyone decent. Tonight......... tonight is the real test. Lets see what Steve Bruces Villa really is made of. 

Title contenders or pretenders. Im excited but im not expecting us to win at all. I think they will roll us. 

[Vive_La_Villa]

I'd like to see a team that looks like it will challenge for promotion today. I appriecate we are away from home against a rival promotion candidate but being completely out played regardless of result will not be good enough.

For me it will just confirm that the recent form has been more to do with the opposition rather than real improvement.  

Give them a game and look like a team that will challenge for top 2. That's the only way Bruce will begin to win fans over. 

[terrytini]

Pleased to hear Bruce finally confirming that he deliberately set out “ to not lose games rather than to try and win them” last season.

Suspicions confirmed !

In my view he didn’t need to take this approach and think it unnecessarily cost us a play off place and did little to build a decent way of playing. 

But... I also think now he has explained it was a specific choice for a specific reason - rather than him seeing it as the best way to play -  I can accept it whilst having a different view.

If you add that he has also now said August was awful ( rather than average as he previously described it) and 3 times has said - in different ways - he now feels it’s time for us to go after Points I’m encouraged that he wanted something different this term but struggled to achieve it.

As such I think the pre match thread debate about whether he will be “positive” or “negative” is a red herring.

He clearly now has a way he intends to play and stick with, and it is neither “ positive” nor “ negative” IMO.

It is to be solid and hard to beat - to be good without the ball and not worry overly about possession - but to attack with purpose and utilise having 4/5 goal scorers instead of 2/3 in the team.

I’m okay with all that nd would be very very surprised if he reverts to last seasons approach on the upcoming game or any others.

That being the case I’m happy to see how things pan out over a month or so, ( and certainly wouldn’t criticise him over specific results in the short term if he applies those ideas) which I wouldn’t have been if there had been no indications from him of a desire to change.

[TRO]

1 hour ago, terrytini said:

Pleased to hear Bruce finally confirming that he deliberately set out “ to not lose games rather than to try and win them” last season.

Suspicions confirmed !

In my view he didn’t need to take this approach and think it unnecessarily cost us a play off place and did little to build a decent way of playing. 

But... I also think now he has explained it was a specific choice for a specific reason - rather than him seeing it as the best way to play -  I can accept it whilst having a different view.

If you add that he has also now said August was awful ( rather than average as he previously described it) and 3 times has said - in different ways - he now feels it’s time for us to go after Points I’m encouraged that he wanted something different this term but struggled to achieve it.

As such I think the pre match thread debate about whether he will be “positive” or “negative” is a red herring.

He clearly now has a way he intends to play and stick with, and it is neither “ positive” nor “ negative” IMO.

It is to be solid and hard to beat - to be good without the ball and not worry overly about possession - but to attack with purpose and utilise having 4/5 goal scorers instead of 2/3 in the team.

I’m okay with all that nd would be very very surprised if he reverts to last seasons approach on the upcoming game or any others.

That being the case I’m happy to see how things pan out over a month or so, ( and certainly wouldn’t criticise him over specific results in the short term if he applies those ideas) which I wouldn’t have been if there had been no indications from him of a desire to change.

Well to be fair Terry that is exactly what you said about his purposeful style of play.

fair play.

i did say at the time ,he should come clean and explain his position to us and he has, and it mirrors your view/ suspicions.

Edited October 14, 2017 by TRO

[rubberman]

1 hour ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

I'd like to see a team that looks like it will challenge for promotion today. 

I think you probably will.  Unsure of whether it'll be the team you want it to be though...

[markavfc40]

@terrytini I am not going to quote it mate but your last post was very good. Even though we haven't agreed much in terms of Bruce the last few weeks, although I acknowledge you made some very valid points, it is good to see you have recognised where he has improved and is now starting to get things right.

That is the great thing about this site. Though the debate can get a bit feisty at times almost no one gets so entrenched in a view that they are above giving a player or manager another chance if they see improvement. In terms of anything revolving around Aston Villa, though we may disagree at times, the bottom line is whatever our opinion the intent behind it is to want what is best for the club.

Edited October 14, 2017 by markavfc40

[Eastie]

3 hours ago, Eastie said:

A win today would put us 2 points off the top whatever any other results are elsewhere today - this is our chance to really get back in the hunt and atone for the poor start ; we have many big game players who should be able to handle the pressure - Bruce must get it right today in his choice of left back and I pray hutton is not in that role .

ith the likes of Grealish and Jedi back soon as well it really is a great chance to push ourselves into the frame - no more of this negative approach - grasp the  wolf by the balls and let’s show who are the kings of the midlands !

How sad that hutton is indeed the man Bruce has chosen to go with  

[macandally]

Normal service resumed, out thought, out played by a team with a Manager who has only been in place for a few months.

Lets start rattling out the next round of banal excuses for someone reputedly a good manager

[Kiwivillan]

2 hours ago, Eastie said:

How sad that hutton is indeed the man Bruce has chosen to go with  

Our best player this game

[Dr_Pangloss]

Waste of space, horrific, disgusting, pathetic excuse for a manager, we will not get us promoted and he has blown incredible sums on terrible players. What a load of garbage.