Steve Bruce

[ozvillafan]

3 minutes ago, Demitri_C said:

Exactly, i just don't get why anyone wants ANOTHER sacking. It done so well for us so far.

Give him a full pre season and lets see how he does. Bet he performs far better than RDM did in his first 11 games 

He has no excuse for not doing better, that's for sure.

RDM had to oversee a huge change in the squad, which included players leaving right up to the days before the Championship started. Bruce has had since Christmas already to get a look at his players and is likely to have a less interrupted preseason.

If he's outside the top 8 after the first 10 games he's likely to be a dead man walking.

[DCJonah]

2 hours ago, Villan_of_oz said:

Everyone has their own view but in mine we really were more than a mess we were a disaster. 5 + years of momentum building shire then 1 win after 11, were the next Portsmouth waiting to happen

Well the last sentence shows exactly the kind of exaggeration I'm on about. 

 

[Demitri_C]

1 hour ago, ozvillafan said:

He has no excuse for not doing better, that's for sure.

RDM had to oversee a huge change in the squad, which included players leaving right up to the days before the Championship started. Bruce has had since Christmas already to get a look at his players and is likely to have a less interrupted preseason.

If he's outside the top 8 after the first 10 games he's likely to be a dead man walking.

Hmm so your making excuses for RDM, yet Bruce who had to inherit RDMs mess doesnt get one?

With regards your last sentence, I agree if we at that stage then Bruce has to go no excuses  

[Villan_of_oz]

27 minutes ago, DCJonah said:

Well the last sentence shows exactly the kind of exaggeration I'm on about. 

 

Just make sure you add 'in my opinion'...... Then we're all good

[VillaChris]

14 hours ago, weedman said:

Don't know if anyone saw it but Karanka was on sky sports earlier talking about his time at Boro, basically said when he came in they were a shambles, so the first thing he did was make them harder to beat - at the expense of attacking play and was constantly criticised for "being scared of attacking", then the following summer improved the quality and the attacking play improved with those players, got them nearly promoted before they smashed the league the following season. 

Just made me think of us, there is no quick fix when you are as much of a shambles as we were, it takes time, it requires patience. If Bruce had come in and had us dominating and winning games like some seem to expect then that statement simply wouldn't be true, it would have been a pretty simple quick fix by all accounts. We look more organised now, we resemble an actual football team for the first time in 5 years, is it great to watch? No, but these things take time, I'm confident that with Bruce we will be up there next season, I'm confident that things will improve with a few additions and some more time to gel together, that doesn't mean I'm happy with the football we have played so far, or with finishing 13th in the Championship, it just means I have accepted that there isn't a magic wand, there isn't a quick fix, and it will take a bit of time to get things right, I have faith that things will improve next season and am looking forward to it

 

Only issue I have with that is Karanka stuck stubbornly to that style of play in the premier league. Boro fans must be hugely frustrated how they've approached this season.

I still believe SB will get it right for us at this level. Only trouble is if the whole club are programmed to play the negative way it's not going to change if promotion is secured. 

[DCJonah]

1 hour ago, Villan_of_oz said:

Just make sure you add 'in my opinion'...... Then we're all good

Well in what way were we the next Portsmouth waiting to happen?

We'd just been bought by a billionaire with huge ambition for the club. We'd just spent huge money signing proven top quality for the level we were in and we had some positive performances. 

We were an underperforming team due to a couple of weak areas and a poor manager. Nothing like the next Portsmouth waiting to happen. 

[DCJonah]

15 hours ago, weedman said:

Don't know if anyone saw it but Karanka was on sky sports earlier talking about his time at Boro, basically said when he came in they were a shambles, so the first thing he did was make them harder to beat - at the expense of attacking play and was constantly criticised for "being scared of attacking", then the following summer improved the quality and the attacking play improved with those players, got them nearly promoted before they smashed the league the following season. 

Just made me think of us, there is no quick fix when you are as much of a shambles as we were, it takes time, it requires patience. If Bruce had come in and had us dominating and winning games like some seem to expect then that statement simply wouldn't be true, it would have been a pretty simple quick fix by all accounts. We look more organised now, we resemble an actual football team for the first time in 5 years, is it great to watch? No, but these things take time, I'm confident that with Bruce we will be up there next season, I'm confident that things will improve with a few additions and some more time to gel together, that doesn't mean I'm happy with the football we have played so far, or with finishing 13th in the Championship, it just means I have accepted that there isn't a magic wand, there isn't a quick fix, and it will take a bit of time to get things right, I have faith that things will improve next season and am looking forward to it

 

Steve Bruce didn't have to make us harder to beat. 

We lost 3/11. That's 27% loss rate. That's losing 12 games over a whole season. 

Only 3 teams lost less than 12 games in the championship. 

Isn't that a good base to begin from? Again doesn't sound like a shambolic club to me. 

 

[Demitri_C]

4 minutes ago, DCJonah said:

Steve Bruce didn't have to make us harder to beat. 

We lost 3/11. That's 27% loss rate. That's losing 12 games over a whole season. 

Only 3 teams lost less than 12 games in the championship. 

Isn't that a good base to begin from? Again doesn't sound like a shambolic club to me. 

 

Are you including the Luton defeat? 

Let's spin it around and look at his win ratio and it was 8.3% in 12 games which was pathetic. In my view that supports the notion we were a shambles. 

[bobzy]

18 minutes ago, DCJonah said:

Well in what way were we the next Portsmouth waiting to happen?

We'd just been bought by a billionaire with huge ambition for the club. We'd just spent huge money signing proven top quality for the level we were in and we had some positive performances. 

We were an underperforming team due to a couple of weak areas and a poor manager. Nothing like the next Portsmouth waiting to happen. 

Because we had spent well beyond our means and were in a relegation battle.  If it had continued, and we went down, we'd have been in a big mess.  "Waiting to happen" is an exaggeration, and we should have never been down there in the Championship, but it would've been catastrophic financially to be relegated - just as it was for Portsmouth.  I think that's the main point.

[DCJonah]

4 minutes ago, Demitri_C said:

Are you including the Luton defeat? 

Let's spin it around and look at his win ratio and it was 8.3% in 12 games which was pathetic. In my view that supports the notion we were a shambles. 

Do you remember the games? We should have smashed Huddersfield and forest. We played well against play off team Sheffield Wednesday. We came back to get a point from the eventual champions. 

We were under performing. Again it's just so exaggerated for the purpose of defending Steve Bruce. 

Tim Sherwood's villa were a shambles. Eric Blacks villa were a shambles. This wasn't like that.  

[Villan_of_oz]

24 minutes ago, DCJonah said:

Do you remember the games? We should have smashed Huddersfield and forest. We played well against play off team Sheffield Wednesday. We came back to get a point from the eventual champions. 

We were under performing. Again it's just so exaggerated for the purpose of defending Steve Bruce. 

Tim Sherwood's villa were a shambles. Eric Blacks villa were a shambles. This wasn't like that.  

Yes it was.....

[Demitri_C]

40 minutes ago, DCJonah said:

Do you remember the games? We should have smashed Huddersfield and forest. We played well against play off team Sheffield Wednesday. We came back to get a point from the eventual champions. 

We were under performing. Again it's just so exaggerated for the purpose of defending Steve Bruce. 

Tim Sherwood's villa were a shambles. Eric Blacks villa were a shambles. This wasn't like that.  

Of course. Guess we will have to disagree, but we didn't smash any of those sides that's the difference. Yes it wasn't a huge embarrassment like season before (i don't think you can get worse than that season) but it was still utter shit under RDM. I would say Bruce has been the first manager since Lambert that has steadied the ship (Lambert 1st season)  

[weedman]

58 minutes ago, DCJonah said:

Steve Bruce didn't have to make us harder to beat. 

We lost 3/11. That's 27% loss rate. That's losing 12 games over a whole season. 

Only 3 teams lost less than 12 games in the championship. 

Isn't that a good base to begin from? Again doesn't sound like a shambolic club to me. 

 

Harder to beat/organised defensively. Our problem was conceding late goals and being mentally weak, like it or not Steve Bruce has improved that, we also win the occasional game now as a direct result of that. We were a shambles from before RDM, to suggest that 5 odd years of decline is erased because of 11 games (where we won 1) is crazy. 

Who knows, given time RDM may have sorted us out as well, but this rebuild requires that we put some faith in the manager, and for me I'd rather put my faith in a man who has proven time and time again that he knows what he's doing than gamble on someone who is largely unproven, but that's just me

[briny_ear]

Editing while I remember how to post an image online

Edited May 22, 2017 by briny_ear

[briny_ear]

7 hours ago, Johnnyp said:

. We ended up further away from the playoffs after the final game of the season than we were after 11 games of the season. That is fact. 

I have this vision:

"The President has made clear that 19th place is nearer to 6th place than 13th is!  FACT! PERIOD!"

Edited May 22, 2017 by briny_ear

[VillaCas]

13th or 19th, both are crap given the resources available. I think RDM was a poor choice and I'm pleased he went but my personal opinion is that 19th exaggerated how bad he was - his games in charge represent a very small sample and in amongst the very average performances we also had more than our share of bad luck.

Its a sad commentary on Bruce that we are debating whether he is better than RDM - it's clear to me that he is better but the real question is - IS he good enough to win promotion next season.

For me the answer is sadly no - extrapolated across a full season his period in charge would bring 68 points or 10th place taken on this season. For the resources available that is a poor return. We can argue until the cows come home about what kind of situation he took over but the overwhelming consensus at the start of the season was that deadwood had been shifted and new blood bought in and that we were automatic promotion candidates

I've seen pretty much the same arguments rolled out when Sherwood and RDM were here and we are now going through the same pantomime with Bruce. He is more experienced than those two, plays much tighter, defensive tactics so his issues are not as stark but make no mistake if he stays (I've no doubt that he will by the way) we will not go up next season either

[mykeyb]

I may be wrong but do suspect amongst the "we need stability" and "he needs a summer" is an awful lot of finger crossing based on his 4 promotions which is a bit of a false narrative. If you could choose a manager out of Bruce, Big Sam, or Pulls I do wonder how many would choose Bruce because he has more promotions from the Championship than the other two which is probably as a result of spending more of his managerial career down here.

I for one didnt expect promotion because RDM was not the right manager and then when Bruce took over I viewed as a safe pair of hands and nothing more.He didnt threaten to challenge for the paly-off places before Xmas but sadly that didnt get even close.

I did hope to see a pattern, a style of play, some sembelance of co-ordination amongst the playing staff but there is very little difference between game1 and game 36 in terms of a playing identity. Some people think that will come over the summer so it will be very interesting to see how our first 4 or 5 games pan out.

[flashingqwerty]

5 hours ago, Demitri_C said:

Exactly, i just don't get why anyone wants ANOTHER sacking. It done so well for us so far.

Give him a full pre season and lets see how he does. Bet he performs far better than RDM did in his first 11 games 

Ill take that bet if you mean by 'far better' that he gets 22 points from 11 games which is whats needed for automatic promotion

[DCJonah]

2 hours ago, weedman said:

Harder to beat/organised defensively. Our problem was conceding late goals and being mentally weak, like it or not Steve Bruce has improved that, we also win the occasional game now as a direct result of that. We were a shambles from before RDM, to suggest that 5 odd years of decline is erased because of 11 games (where we won 1) is crazy. 

Who knows, given time RDM may have sorted us out as well, but this rebuild requires that we put some faith in the manager, and for me I'd rather put my faith in a man who has proven time and time again that he knows what he's doing than gamble on someone who is largely unproven, but that's just me

Again I'm not defending RDM.

I also would put more faith in Bruce than RDM. 

I'm not arguing that at all. 

[DCJonah]

3 hours ago, bobzy said:

Because we had spent well beyond our means and were in a relegation battle.  If it had continued, and we went down, we'd have been in a big mess.  "Waiting to happen" is an exaggeration, and we should have never been down there in the Championship, but it would've been catastrophic financially to be relegated - just as it was for Portsmouth.  I think that's the main point.

And that's what I said.