Steve Bruce

[markavfc40]

8 minutes ago, dn1982 said:

How does Bruce compare to other managers that have come in mid season? Stam and Monk are out performing him. McLaren has been and gone. Anymore? To say he hasn't had enough time to get this lot playing is ridiculous. He inherited a decent squad and improved it in January. Would RDM have faired any worse? 

Stam and Monk joined their respective clubs in early June so had full pre seasons. As you say Mclaren came and went, Zola was a disaster.

Warnock went into Cardiff around the same time and has done a similar job results wise.

[dn1982]

8 minutes ago, BOF said:

For me I find the whole attempts at comparison to be irrelevant.  Every club is different and has its own unique set of circumstances that make it easier or more difficult to make an impact at.  There are examples of managers doing better than Bruce and there are examples of managers doing worse.  None of it in any way relevant to us as a club.  The only question that matters to me is whether Bruce has done well at Villa, with Villa's own set of circumstances.  Clubs like Reading for example have had years in this division plodding along with little drama.  We've come down like a meteorite, on fire and all explodey-like.  The hypotheticals of 'would someone have ...' fall largely into the same category, except that they can't be answered, as they never happened.

My question is more to do with how other managers have got their sides playing better not just result based. I've seen numerous posts stating Bruce hasn't had enough time yet see other managers fairing better and playing better. Do you think Bruce has done well? I think he's done ok but needs to show a lot more. Wagner went into Huddersfield in November 2016 and didn't do much all season but he did instil last a brand of football into them which reaped the benefits this season. I don't see any brand of football developing under Bruce. 

[BOF]

27 minutes ago, dn1982 said:

My question is more to do with how other managers have got their sides playing better not just result based. I've seen numerous posts stating Bruce hasn't had enough time yet see other managers fairing better and playing better. Do you think Bruce has done well? I think he's done ok but needs to show a lot more. Wagner went into Huddersfield in November 2016 and didn't do much all season but he did instil last a brand of football into them which reaped the benefits this season. I don't see any brand of football developing under Bruce. 

We risk going over old ground here, but my answer still ties into my earlier response that it depends on what you've taken over and what it was going through at the time.  Remember he had no central midfield unit until he managed to sign Lansbury and Hourihane to play alongside the solitary Jedinak.  That alone is 15 league games that were essentially an exercise in bypassing an important part of any team.  January was terrible as we all know, but again, that was his first transfer window to try and get things right, while being without Kodjia.  We had great individuals (relative to the league) before that, but we were massively unbalanced.  Think about our strike force this season.  In the Championship.  We had Ayew, Gestede, McCormack, Kodjia and Adomah.  All goal machines at this level (Ayew in theory).  Two or three of whom had to sit on the bench each week.  Our resources were abused for a long time and he has now gone about getting a squad together, all while getting results that would put us in the playoffs over the course of a season.  So my answer would be that yes I think he has done well under very trying circumstances.  We are not there yet but we're closer than we were under RDM.  The summer should be the next evolution of the side and ball retention is next.  And those who doubt Bruce can 'do' ball retention should remember that it was only 1 season ago that he went up with Hull averaging the 3rd highest possession stats in the league and higher than the other 2 who went up, so he has done it in the not-so-distant past.

[romavillan]

21 minutes ago, BOF said:

We risk going over old ground here, but my answer still ties into my earlier response that it depends on what you've taken over and what it was going through at the time.  Remember he had no central midfield unit until he managed to sign Lansbury and Hourihane to play alongside the solitary Jedinak.  That alone is 15 league games that were essentially an exercise in bypassing an important part of any team.  January was terrible as we all know, but again, that was his first transfer window to try and get things right, while being without Kodjia.  We had great individuals (relative to the league) before that, but we were massively unbalanced.  Think about our strike force this season.  In the Championship.  We had Ayew, Gestede, McCormack, Kodjia and Adomah.  All goal machines at this level (Ayew in theory).  Two or three of whom had to sit on the bench each week.  Our resources were abused for a long time and he has now gone about getting a squad together, all while getting results that would put us in the playoffs over the course of a season.  So my answer would be that yes I think he has done well under very trying circumstances.  We are not there yet but we're closer than we were under RDM.  The summer should be the next evolution of the side and ball retention is next.  And those who doubt Bruce can 'do' ball retention should remember that it was only 1 season ago that he went up with Hull averaging the 3rd highest possession stats in the league and higher than the other 2 who went up, so he has done it in the not-so-distant past.

That gives me a it more hope, he played in a great side too but the fact that Hull kept the ball infinitely better than we are doing so recently and to such good effect is great to hear. Summer shoudl be interesting, I'm hoping we see some more academy lads getting some time on teh pitch before the summer too. Pressure is well and truly off for them so why not see what we've got coming through? Would help a lot with good summer business if we can at least provide cover and competition for some first team slots from our own academy.

Minimum I expect next season is to not look like a bunch of strangers thrown the shirt 5 mins before kick off, be hard to beat and be able to manage a game by keeping the ball. Ideal world we'd win playing exciting football but not giving points away will do for me for starters, we have players who can win games for us but we need to find a team and for that team to be a million times more frugal in giving points away.

[mykeyb]

At Hull he kept the nucleus of the team which was relegated, here he is having to do some rebuilding and doesn't appear to have identified how he wants to play and thus sign players to fit that system.....So far.

After he has another window and a pre-season there can be no excuses.

[Villan_of_oz]

1 hour ago, mykeyb said:

At Hull he kept the nucleus of the team which was relegated, here he is having to do some rebuilding and doesn't appear to have identified how he wants to play and thus sign players to fit that system.....So far.

After he has another window and a pre-season there can be no excuses.

A pretty fair summation imo

[bannedfromHandV]

7 hours ago, markavfc40 said:

Stam and Monk joined their respective clubs in early June so had full pre seasons. As you say Mclaren came and went, Zola was a disaster.

Warnock went into Cardiff around the same time and has done a similar job results wise.

Don't know what you're talking about, Agent Zola was a complete success 

[TRO]

8 hours ago, BOF said:

We risk going over old ground here, but my answer still ties into my earlier response that it depends on what you've taken over and what it was going through at the time.  Remember he had no central midfield unit until he managed to sign Lansbury and Hourihane to play alongside the solitary Jedinak.  That alone is 15 league games that were essentially an exercise in bypassing an important part of any team.  January was terrible as we all know, but again, that was his first transfer window to try and get things right, while being without Kodjia.  We had great individuals (relative to the league) before that, but we were massively unbalanced.  Think about our strike force this season.  In the Championship.  We had Ayew, Gestede, McCormack, Kodjia and Adomah.  All goal machines at this level (Ayew in theory).  Two or three of whom had to sit on the bench each week.  Our resources were abused for a long time and he has now gone about getting a squad together, all while getting results that would put us in the playoffs over the course of a season.  So my answer would be that yes I think he has done well under very trying circumstances.  We are not there yet but we're closer than we were under RDM.  The summer should be the next evolution of the side and ball retention is next.  And those who doubt Bruce can 'do' ball retention should remember that it was only 1 season ago that he went up with Hull averaging the 3rd highest possession stats in the league and higher than the other 2 who went up, so he has done it in the not-so-distant past.

Totally agree and may I add.

He has on many occasions pointed out that the business of "taking care of the ball " was absent.

Now by my deduction, that does not suggest it's part of the plan......Its suggests to me it's something we have to work on and correct.

The thing I find puzzling at times is......The business of blaming the manager  for every mortal thing that happens on the pitch.There are certain aspects of play that the players themselves have to be responsible for.

I see things during a game and say to myself......How's that down to the manager.

Good players take responsibility for themselves.

 

 

Edited April 19, 2017 by TRO

[briny_ear]

3 hours ago, bannedfromHandV said:

Don't know what you're talking about, Agent Zola was a complete success 

Nah, he bailed out too early. If he'd stayed for the last 3 matches he would undoubtedly have taken them down. As it is, 'Arry may just have a clue about how to save them.

[Wezbid]

5 minutes ago, briny_ear said:

Nah, he bailed out too early. If he'd stayed for the last 3 matches he would undoubtedly have taken them down. As it is, 'Arry may just have a clue about how to save them.

'Arry is a media darling who can't rely on brown paper bag payments to sort shit out. 

That said, Rowett had them more than competitive so claret tinted glasses aside, they're not complete turd. Mainly turd though. 

[villan_007]

19 hours ago, DCJonah said:

You say RDM and his players like they're a problem. Chester could be player of the year, kodjia has won us numerous points on his own, Jedinak has shown his key to winning games, adomah has a good number of assists. 

I'm not convinced Bruce inherited that bad of a squad. It had midfield issues and a bad keeper. He chose to bring in another inexperienced keeper and was able to sign two excellent championship midfield players, neither of whom have shown their earlier season form once joining Bruce. 

I wasn't saying they were a problem. My point was it's a factor a new manager has to deal with when coming in.

Having said that lets take your first paragraph. And then counter it with RMC, Tish and Gollini. If they had all been good buys, they would have comfortably seen us through our bad patch. An in form RMC could have replaced Kodja, same for Tish and Jedi. They were far from it.

So actually yes they were a problem. Plus you also mentioned we had no midfield. Another problem he had to deal with, which in turn you use as aa point against Bruce that he some how turned two in form players into poor players. The fact they are finding their feet at a new club gets overlooked.

All in all - not enough time to address everything and get us promoted. 

 

[DCJonah]

4 hours ago, villan_007 said:

I wasn't saying they were a problem. My point was it's a factor a new manager has to deal with when coming in.

Having said that lets take your first paragraph. And then counter it with RMC, Tish and Gollini. If they had all been good buys, they would have comfortably seen us through our bad patch. An in form RMC could have replaced Kodja, same for Tish and Jedi. They were far from it.

So actually yes they were a problem. Plus you also mentioned we had no midfield. Another problem he had to deal with, which in turn you use as aa point against Bruce that he some how turned two in form players into poor players. The fact they are finding their feet at a new club gets overlooked.

All in all - not enough time to address everything and get us promoted. 

 

I agree with your last statement, it's not enough time to get promoted. I think it's been enough time for us to see what a Steve Bruce side is going to look like, for a style of play to start being implemented and worked on. 

With regards signings, yes not all were good from RDM but i cant agree that they were problems. Look at signings made from Bruce, an inexperienced keeper that's cost us points and been lucky to not cost us more, a RB that barely plays, 2 midfield players that aren't close to replicating the contributions they showed previously this season and an expensive striker that has 1 goal and looks like he can't play in a Steve Bruce team. 

I'd say his own signings currently look more of a problem than the players he inherited. 

[mykeyb]

9 hours ago, TRO said:

Totally agree and may I add.

He has on many occasions pointed out that the business of "taking care of the ball " was absent.

Now by my deduction, that does not suggest it's part of the plan......Its suggests to me it's something we have to work on and correct.

The thing I find puzzling at times is......The business of blaming the manager  for every mortal thing that happens on the pitch.There are certain aspects of play that the players themselves have to be responsible for.

I see things during a game and say to myself......How's that down to the manager.

Good players take responsibility for themselves.

 

 

That's a little nieve, you need to play a system, where players know their roles, you coach them through the week so on match day the players can do what Fulham did with their little passing triangles, you coach the pass and move that I would suggest Hourihane and Lansbury where doing before they came here, you coach them to make runs of the ball and you coach players to look for those runs, I see nothing on a match day to suggest this is happening.

But it's easier to blame the players when you are trying to absolve the manager of poor performances which to be honest every one has looked worse under him.

How many more players is he going to need to sign to allow us to be more careful with the ball, and if that doesn't improve us how many more until we eventually point the finger at him.

[Demitri_C]

No more garbage gambles bruce. Drop that shit 3-5-2 it's failed every time you have adopted it. Back to basics like before the Burton game.

If he lays 3 5 2 we will lose simple as that

[Godders]

I've just had a look at the 'where will we finish?' poll that was run right at the start of the season, mainly as I was interested to remind myself what our expectations were at the start of the season, before a ball was even kicked.

The overwhelming expectation was playoffs, but a not insignificant number of folks here thought we'd be top half but miss out on the playoffs.

Bruce is currently on track to deliver a top half finish, and probably not too far off the playoffs. This is arguably broadly in line with preseason expectations, despite giving the rest of the league a quarter of a season head start. Regardless of what is said about style of play, I don't think this can be overlooked.

I'm sure if that poll was rerun when RDM was sacked, the expectations would have been lower, which makes a top half finish even more impressive IMO considering pre-season expectations and where we were when Bruce took over.

[DCJonah]

54 minutes ago, Godders said:

I've just had a look at the 'where will we finish?' poll that was run right at the start of the season, mainly as I was interested to remind myself what our expectations were at the start of the season, before a ball was even kicked.

The overwhelming expectation was playoffs, but a not insignificant number of folks here thought we'd be top half but miss out on the playoffs.

Bruce is currently on track to deliver a top half finish, and probably not too far off the playoffs. This is arguably broadly in line with preseason expectations, despite giving the rest of the league a quarter of a season head start. Regardless of what is said about style of play, I don't think this can be overlooked.

I'm sure if that poll was rerun when RDM was sacked, the expectations would have been lower, which makes a top half finish even more impressive IMO considering pre-season expectations and where we were when Bruce took over.

How are we on track for a top half finish? We're not in the top half and our form is getting worse. It's not impossible, we may achieve it but to say he's on track is not true. 

[Eastie]

10 minutes ago, DCJonah said:

How are we on track for a top half finish? We're not in the top half and our form is getting worse. It's not impossible, we may achieve it but to say he's on track is not true. 

We are in the top half with 3 games to go .

Personally I think a 12 place finish is disappointing and would have hoped for top 8 or top 10 at worse but the last 3 games have affected those targets .

We still can finish top 10 but need a huge improvement on the last 3 games.

considering around xmas time we were in the top 8 and looking upwards it has been disappointing to not kick on from there .

Edited April 20, 2017 by Eastie

[Godders]

9 minutes ago, DCJonah said:

How are we on track for a top half finish? We're not in the top half and our form is getting worse. It's not impossible, we may achieve it but to say he's on track is not true. 

We're 12th out of 24. Moving up 1 place in the league puts us in the top half. Our next two games are winnable. A point in the last game looks doable too assuming Brighton have the title wrapped up by then.

That's on track in my book.

[Eastie]

Just now, Godders said:

We're 12th out of 24. Moving up 1 place in the league puts us in the top half. Our next two games are winnable. A point in the last game looks doable too assuming Brighton have the title wrapped up by then.

That's on track in my book.

We don't need to move up one place to reach there -we are in the top half already .

[BOF]

33 minutes ago, DCJonah said:

How are we on track for a top half finish? We're not in the top half and our form is getting worse. It's not impossible, we may achieve it but to say he's on track is not true. 

We are literally in the top half right now and have been since March 11th.  24 teams remember.  Not 20.