blandy Posted August 2, 2018 Moderator Share Posted August 2, 2018 11 hours ago, HanoiVillan said: I think by 'speeding forwards to today' you've ignored that things were, I would argue, significantly better ten years ago. It can both be true that there is less racism today than there was in the 1970s, that there is more today than there was a decade ago, and that the latter fact is more important and more pressing. Newsnight have fascists on every other night these days. They're mainstream now. I think my post to Stefan was about long term trends. Of course within one part of the country at one time or another, things will go against that trend for a while, but the overall perception I have is as I wrote. I’d agree that since the Brexit vote, it’s reported that there have been more people being openly racist dicks. There may well have been an upturn in the last couple of years, but it seems, or feels like longer term things are less bad today than a decade ago. Obviously I’m not well placed to do much more than speak from a distance about it, really. I don’t also recognise the idea that fascists are on the Newsnight every other night, either. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted August 2, 2018 Share Posted August 2, 2018 1 hour ago, blandy said: I don’t also recognise the idea that fascists are on the Newsnight every other night, either. 'Every other night' was a rhetorical flourish rather than a literal description. And I can't prove it either, seeing as I'm not keeping a journal. I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted August 2, 2018 Moderator Share Posted August 2, 2018 1 hour ago, HanoiVillan said: 'Every other night' was a rhetorical flourish rather than a literal description. And I can't prove it either, seeing as I'm not keeping a journal. I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. I understood it as a rhetorical flourish, too. It's just that I had a think and couldn't think of any episodes where I recalled it having a fascist on at all. I don't watch it every night and frequently turn it off if the intro is saying they're covering something I've no interest in, but even so, if there were regular fascist spots, I thought I'd have noticed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted August 2, 2018 Moderator Share Posted August 2, 2018 I guess it boils down to your definition of fascist Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted August 2, 2018 Moderator Share Posted August 2, 2018 5 minutes ago, bickster said: I guess it boils down to your definition of fascist I consult the following expert to determine fascistic tendencies 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted August 2, 2018 Share Posted August 2, 2018 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted August 2, 2018 Share Posted August 2, 2018 Beaten to by Blandy , the fascist 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted August 2, 2018 Share Posted August 2, 2018 Not Newsnight but BBC R4 giving a platform to the likes of Raheem Hassam. Sort of proves the point really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted August 2, 2018 Author Share Posted August 2, 2018 I like that R4 and Newsnight always try and use the word 'allegedly' when describing things Robinson or Leave or whoever have categorically been found guilty of. Gives everyone a fair and equal platform. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post ml1dch Posted August 2, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted August 2, 2018 40 minutes ago, chrisp65 said: I like that R4 and Newsnight always try and use the word 'allegedly' when describing things Robinson or Leave or whoever have categorically been found guilty of. Gives everyone a fair and equal platform. So we're in a weird, topsy-turvy world where The S*n is on the right side of morality and the BBC are the ones pandering to the worst of elements of society. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seat68 Posted August 2, 2018 Share Posted August 2, 2018 17 minutes ago, ml1dch said: So we're in a weird, topsy-turvy world where The S*n is on the right side of morality and the BBC are the ones pandering to the worst of elements of society. Feel dirty liking this. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paddywhack Posted August 2, 2018 Share Posted August 2, 2018 2 hours ago, tonyh29 said: The upside down blue peter badge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted August 2, 2018 Share Posted August 2, 2018 I'm glad the Sun wrote that, and they are fine words, though I can't help thinking their real butt-hurt is an understandable concern for the future loyalty of right-wing news consumers and a concern about where their eyeballs will be going in the future: 'That scandal has been exposed by actual journalists' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted August 2, 2018 Share Posted August 2, 2018 4 hours ago, blandy said: I understood it as a rhetorical flourish, too. It's just that I had a think and couldn't think of any episodes where I recalled it having a fascist on at all. I don't watch it every night and frequently turn it off if the intro is saying they're covering something I've no interest in, but even so, if there were regular fascist spots, I thought I'd have noticed. 4 hours ago, bickster said: I guess it boils down to your definition of fascist It does depend on your definition of 'fascist', though to be clear in my initial post I referred not only to fascists but also 'alt-right' and 'far right' figures. With that in mind, I am absolutely including Steve Bannon's 25-minute interview, an interview with Beatrix von Storch in June, and several times that Raheem Kassam and Gerard Batten have been on*. Of course, Newsnight is just one outlet and as @StefanAVFC pointed out earlier, Raheem Kassam was allowed to present himself as some sort of legal expert without challenge this week on the Today programme, for a more timely example. *Note that I'm limiting myself here to a] segments I can remember, b] 2018 and c] only those people associated with UKIP who seem to have a genuine fondness for the far right (ie, not including eg Diane James or Nigel Farage). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted August 2, 2018 Share Posted August 2, 2018 8 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said: only those people associated with UKIP who seem to have a genuine fondness for the far right (ie, not including eg Diane James or Nigel Farage). I think you're being unbelievably generous to Farridge, there. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted August 2, 2018 Share Posted August 2, 2018 2 minutes ago, snowychap said: I think you're being unbelievably generous to Farridge, there. Yeah, possibly . . . I did wonder about including him. But I do think there's a difference, in tone and tactics if not in ideology. I can't imagine Farage speaking like Batten did at that Yaxley-Lennon protest in London. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted August 2, 2018 Share Posted August 2, 2018 41 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said: Yeah, possibly . . . I did wonder about including him. But I do think there's a difference, in tone and tactics if not in ideology. I can't imagine Farage speaking like Batten did at that Yaxley-Lennon protest in London. Yeah (and I feel gross saying this) but credit to Farage, he isn't far-right. He's a grubby, opportunistic word removed but he isn't far-right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted August 2, 2018 Moderator Share Posted August 2, 2018 5 minutes ago, StefanAVFC said: Yeah (and I feel gross saying this) but credit to Farage, he isn't far-right. He's a grubby, opportunistic word removed but he isn't far-right. Support for and speaking at the rallies of the AfD in Germany says otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted August 2, 2018 Share Posted August 2, 2018 5 minutes ago, bickster said: Support for and speaking at the rallies of the AfD in Germany says otherwise. he's an opportunist. I doubt he believes half the shite he spouts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted August 2, 2018 Moderator Share Posted August 2, 2018 Just now, StefanAVFC said: he's an opportunist. I doubt he believes half the shite he spouts. He's an agent of Putin, so yes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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