UKIP/Reform NF Ltd and their non-racist well informed supporters

[ml1dch]

He's probably UKIPPy enough. That Arron Banks really knows his stuff.

Edited July 31, 2018 by blandy
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[Chindie]

What is he even trying to say there?

[ml1dch]

I'd guess his brain is so hard-wired to saying that such-and-such ISN'T EVEN IN THE EU!, and he didn't register that the discussion was on the G7, not the EU.

Edited July 31, 2018 by ml1dch

[bickster]

4 hours ago, Chindie said:

What is he even trying to say there?

I’m guessing he’s proving he’s a thick clearing in the woods but he’s probably trying to prove otherwise to get him some brownie points with his lord and master Putin and the gammons at the same time. He’s failed on the first count but Putin won’t care and the gammons  are too thick to realise he was wrong

[ml1dch]

Yaxley-Lennon freed on bail by the Court of Appeal.

So the far-right now have their Nelson Mandela.

[StefanAVFC]

Urgh.

They won't actually read the facts. That only one of the two trials/convictions have been quashed. He is undoubtedly guilty for Canterbury (and Leeds too, he plead guilty) but he will be re-convicted.

This doesn't actually vindicate him. He's still guilty of a crime; he may just get a less harsh sentence.

Obviously that doesn't matter to his (seemingly) thousands of knuckle-dragging supporters who will see this as some victory for free speech.

I really detest what our country has become. We've gone from a country where people protested Nick Griffin even being given a platform on QT, to a far-right thug being held up as a pariah by the mainstream media. In practically no time.

[Seat68]

Just now, StefanAVFC said:

 

I really detest what our country has become. We've gone from a country where people protested Nick Griffin even being given a platform on QT, to a far-right thug being held up as a pariah by the mainstream media. In practically no time.

We no longer call out people as being abhorent for views that were right of the BNP, it's now common. It sickens me. 

[blandy]

27 minutes ago, StefanAVFC said:

...I really detest what our country has become. We've gone from a country where people protested Nick Griffin even being given a platform on QT, to a far-right thug being held up as a pariah by the mainstream media. In practically no time.

I don't think you mean what you've written, do you, Stefan? Mixed messages etc. Also I don't actually think it's true. Or maybe I've misunderstood?

[StefanAVFC]

2 minutes ago, blandy said:

I don't think you mean what you've written, do you, Stefan? Mixed messages etc. Also I don't actually think it's true. Or maybe I've misunderstood?

Oops, I didn't mean pariah. I meant the opposite. A hero of the working class.

[ml1dch]

I'd guess he doesn't mean pariah. Change that to say, martyr and it makes more sense.

[blandy]

56 minutes ago, StefanAVFC said:

Oops, I didn't mean pariah. I meant the opposite. A hero of the working class.

That explains part of my confusion, thanks. But not all of it.

See, I don't think the narrative is true (for me). I don't think the Country has become [worse]. In the 60s 70s and 80s in particular, there was far more racism, tolderance of racism - even Tory candidates using slogans like "if you want a [N-word] for a neighbour, Vote Labour" Enoch Powell, Race Riots, mainstream TV having racist programming, The BNP, NF etc. etc. There was also on the flip side, Rock against Racism and a whole bunch of anti racist protesting.

Speed forwards to today and there's widespread condemnation and ridicule of the Bell, Yaxley-Lennon, and his idiot supporters. He's widely help up as a far right dingbat in the media.

At some point it became a view that to defeat these throbbers, you had to expose their hate to the daylight of counter argument - to win the battle of views with coherent argument. SO there will always be some coverage and comment of Powell, Griffin, TR, etc. He's not a hero of the Working Class - he's a hero to a very mall minority of absolute dickheads. Remember that photo of that young woman smiling in the face of some EDL numpty in Brum a couple of years back, and the widespread acclaim. Same with the bus driver in London recently. I think you are maybe (from my position) over reacting in terms of the scale of the nastiness, perhaps, compared to previously.

[snowychap]

50 minutes ago, StefanAVFC said:

and Leeds too, he plead guilty

His pleading is irrelevant as far as I've read.

I think you ought to be careful about making these kinds of comments. The Court of Appeal has said that the finding of contempt in Leeds is quashed. The alleged contempt will be reheard.

Yaxley-Lennon may be an utter word removed out to self-promote, bring division, have a scrap (whether that's in the car park at Ascot or a court room) and make a lot of money out of what happens about his supposed politics but he, as with anyone else, ought to be treated the same under the law and by observers and commentators on the legal situation in which he finds himself, especially so as this is a universality in which he obviously does not believe.

Edited August 1, 2018 by snowychap

[StefanAVFC]

3 minutes ago, snowychap said:

Yaxley-Lennon may be an utter word removed out to self-promote, bring division, have a scrap (whether that's in the car park at Ascot or a court room) and make a lot of money out of what happens about his supposed politics but he, as with anyone else, ought to be treated the same under the law and by observers and commentators on the legal situation in which he finds himself, especially so as this is a universality in which he obviously does not believe.

I'm not denying that. I fully agree (Although it does make me laugh how the same courts who his supporters said were unfair and scum or whatever are the same people who got him out today, ho hum)

My annoyance is more around how his supporters will use this as a victory for their vile cause.

[snowychap]

4 minutes ago, StefanAVFC said:

I'm not denying that. I fully agree (Although it does make me laugh how the same courts who his supporters said were unfair and scum or whatever are the same people who got him out today, ho hum)

My annoyance is more around how his supporters will use this as a victory for their vile cause.

I get that and I agree.

To (try and) do the right thing, though, is worth all the more in situations such as this.

[tonyh29]

24 minutes ago, blandy said:

That explains part of my confusion, thanks. But not all of it.

See, I don't think the narrative is true (for me). I don't think the Country has become [worse]. In the 60s 70s and 80s in particular, there was far more racism, tolderance of racism - even Tory candidates using slogans like "if you want a [N-word] for a neighbour, Vote Labour" Enoch Powell, Race Riots, mainstream TV having racist programming, The BNP, NF etc. etc. There was also on the flip side, Rock against Racism and a whole bunch of anti racist protesting.

Speed forwards to today and there's widespread condemnation and ridicule of the Bell, Yaxley-Lennon, and his idiot supporters. He's widely help up as a far right dingbat in the media.

At some point it became a view that to defeat these throbbers, you had to expose their hate to the daylight of counter argument - to win the battle of views with coherent argument. SO there will always be some coverage and comment of Powell, Griffin, TR, etc. He's not a hero of the Working CLass - he's a hero to a very mall minority of absolute dickheads. Remember that photo of that young woman smiling in the face of some EDL numpty in Brum a couple of years back, and the widespread acclaim. Same with the bus driver in London recently. I think you are maybe (from my position) over reacting in terms of the scale of the nastiness, perhaps, compared to previously.

  

 

 

 it was One Tory Candidate  , not candidate(s) .. sorta like Saying Labour MPs are racist because of Diane Abbot

it was also interesting that in that election Griffiths bucked the national trend and won the vote  , making Smethwick essentially a racist town ... you wouldn't see that same slogan now , not just cause of "political correctness gone mad" , but because people simply wouldn't tolerate it .. which makes Steph's detesting of this country seem a little out of place ..and essentially me agreeing with you , I think the UK is way more tolerant than it's ever been , and way more tolerant than most of the world   ... even the UKIP share if you agree type people on Facebook , seem to only be half hearted racists , they seem to want to share a post about limiting immigration and then next minute posting a picture of them at a BBQ with their Eastern European / Asian / Black neighbour .... maybe it's just politician types and failed policy after failed policy they are getting intolerant of and not the cheeky girls 

I'm reading a pattern on this forum lately of intellectual superiority  , coupled with gammon face type sneering  (you'd think the intellects would present a better argument but hey ho i'm going off on a  tangent there)  .. the rise in intolerance in the Uk I'm seeing is from these people towards anyone that doesn't agree with them , maybe we've moved on from judging people by colour of skin to what paper they read  ... but I don't detest these Guardian readers when they rant on facebook ,I just sorta think hey ho and then scroll down the page to see "10 things I wont' believe my eyes happened "

 

As for Tommy Robinson ,  he's like Love Island , Kim Kardashian or the Tour de France , in that they he's of no interest to me  ... and i suspect to the vast majority of people either

[blandy]

7 minutes ago, tonyh29 said:

 it was One Tory Candidate  , not candidate(s) .. sorta like Saying Labour MPs are racist because of Diane Abbot

it was also interesting that in that election Griffiths bucked the national trend and won the vote  , making Smethwick essentially a racist town ... you wouldn't see that same slogan now , not just cause of "political correctness gone mad" , but because people simply wouldn't tolerate it .. which makes Steph's detesting of this country seem a little out of place ..and essentially me agreeing with you , I think the UK is way more tolerant than it's ever been , and way more tolerant than most of the world   ... even the UKIP share if you agree type people on Facebook , seem to only be half hearted racists , they seem to want to share a post about limiting immigration and then next minute posting a picture of them at a BBQ with their Eastern European / Asian / Black neighbour .... maybe it's just politician types and failed policy after failed policy they are getting intolerant of and not the cheeky girls 

I'm reading a pattern on this forum lately of intellectual superiority , coupled with gammon face type sneering  (you'd think the intellects would present a better argument but hey ho i'm going off on a  tangent there)  .. the rise in intolerance in the Uk I'm seeing is from these people towards anyone that doesn't agree with them , maybe we've moved on from judging people by colour of skin to what paper they read  ... but I don't detest these Guardian readers when they rant on facebook ,I just sorta think hey ho and then scroll down the page to see "10 things I wont' believe my eyes happened "

As for Tommy Robinson ,  he's like Love Island , Kim Kardashian or the Tour de France , in that they he's of no interest to me  ... and i suspect to the vast majority of people either

Pretty much yeah. I don't agree with all of that, and none of what I/we wrote is to say there isn't still quite a lot of racism about. I think the Brexit stuff has made the racists feel it's a bit more OK to do racism. And like with Labour not being full of anti semitics, but stil lhaving a problem, the same applies to the tories and more so the UKIPs with racism and racists.

The intellectual superiority thing is interesting as is your point that " the rise in intolerance in the Uk I'm seeing is from these people towards anyone that doesn't agree with them". Totally agree about the intolerance point. The intelligence one less so. Because there is some monumental, widespread, stupidity, sawdust brained ignorance about. Willful ignorance of facts, "had enough of experts". A lack of awareness of how people are manipulating, being manipulated and so on. So in essence I think some of the "intellectual superiority" is seen as that by (some) people's abandonment of reason based and fact based and logic based debate and argument. When the flaws are pointed out, people shout" intellectual superiority". Conspiracy theorists, climate change deniers, hard-Brexiteers (e.g. the UKIPs, to stay on topic), Corbyn's accolytes even etc. these are by and large (but not exclusively) either efftards or people manipulating those efftards and the time-pressed (therefore perhaps not so well informed) for their own benefit. So sure there is some "intellectual superiority" around, but also some "intellectual inferiority" that's not acknowledged.

Last line - absolutely.

[StefanAVFC]

35 minutes ago, tonyh29 said:

I'm reading a pattern on this forum lately of intellectual superiority  , coupled with gammon face type sneering  (you'd think the intellects would present a better argument but hey ho i'm going off on a  tangent there)  .. the rise in intolerance in the Uk I'm seeing is from these people towards anyone that doesn't agree with them 

FWIW I think this is nonsense.

Calling someone out for having a shitty opinion is not intolerance.

[Chindie]

Tolerance doesn't require tolerating the intolerant.

[blandy]

2 minutes ago, StefanAVFC said:

this is nonsense.

Calling someone out for having a shitty opinion is not intolerance

There's a massive amount of intolerance of different, legitimate views. There's an enormous amount of "transmit but not receive". Examples that might ring a bell would be newspaper headlines about "traitors" or "enemy of the people" or almost anything at all coming out of Donald Trump and his team and followers on social media. There's no attempt to engage or to understand another perspective. There's a massive amount of playing the man not the ball. I could go on.

In a way (sorry)

6 minutes ago, StefanAVFC said:

this is nonsense.

Calling someone out for having a shitty opinion is not intolerance

is QED.

[blandy]

Just now, Chindie said:

Tolerance doesn't require tolerating the intolerant.

Yet it does require tolerating difference.