Lichfield Dean Posted February 6 VT Supporter Share Posted February 6 3 minutes ago, Steero113 said: Is there the space for that? It's quite a narrow site. I wonder if moving the whole stadium back a bit, into the car park and shop area, might give some more space. But there'd probably be all sorts of planning issues with local houses and buildings etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain_Townsend Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 (edited) So we have three viewpoints 1. Stay as we are because we don't need to expand and it costs too much (many have replied along these lines to me since December) 2. We need a new stadium to compete even if it costs the guts of a billion (a cynic would think they have been running down VIlla Park deliberately to push more into this camp?!) 3 (my firm position) Spend £100m on a new North Stand and see then if we meed to down the line expand on the Witton Lane side. This gets us a lot of the things a new stadium gets us and for a fraction of the cost. There is a 4th option. Do a Spurs. Rebuild on the present site. Move everything towards the Witton End. Would mean we didn't need to fork out for a site and woild retain what is a unique and historic location. It would be less landlocked down that end. My preference remains option 3. It just feels like the logical option for me. Edited February 6 by Captain_Townsend Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imavillan Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 (edited) 27 minutes ago, Captain_Townsend said: So we have three viewpoints 1. Stay as we are because we don't need to expand and it costs too much (many have replied along these lines to me since December) 2. We need a new stadium to compete even if it costs the guts of a billion (a cynic would think they have been running down VIlla Park deliberately to push more into this camp?!) 3 (my firm position) Spend £100m on a new North Stand and see then if we meed to down the line expand on the Witton Lane side. This gets us a lot of the things a new stadium gets us and for a fraction of the cost. There is a 4th option. Do a Spurs. Rebuild on the present site. Move everything towards the Witton End. Would mean we didn't need to fork out for a site and woild retain what is a unique and historic location. It would be less landlocked down that end. My preference remains option 3. It just feels like the logical option for me. Genuine question. Have you been in the DE/Witton Lane stand at all or recently? IMO It really is borderline as fit for purpose and is way way behind the times. The fan experience in the concourses is 0 out of 10. Trying to get food or drink or even the basics of going to the toilet is an appalling experience. As each year passes it obviously gets worse/further behind. Without buying up the houses behind it there is very little room for expansion there if any. Edit: The same can be said for the NS Edited February 6 by imavillan 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OutByEaster? Posted February 6 Moderator Share Posted February 6 28 minutes ago, Captain_Townsend said: 1. Stay as we are because we don't need to expand and it costs too much. I think this is the clubs position. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ender4 Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 32 minutes ago, Captain_Townsend said: So we have three viewpoints 1. Stay as we are because we don't need to expand and it costs too much (many have replied along these lines to me since December) 2. We need a new stadium to compete even if it costs the guts of a billion (a cynic would think they have been running down VIlla Park deliberately to push more into this camp?!) 3 (my firm position) Spend £100m on a new North Stand and see then if we meed to down the line expand on the Witton Lane side. This gets us a lot of the things a new stadium gets us and for a fraction of the cost. There is a 4th option. Do a Spurs. Rebuild on the present site. Move everything towards the Witton End. Would mean we didn't need to fork out for a site and woild retain what is a unique and historic location. It would be less landlocked down that end. My preference remains option 3. It just feels like the logical option for me. Easily no 3 for me. A new North stand does nothing for the other 3 stands which are also barely scraping the barrel in facilities. The whole ground needs razing to the ground and rebuilding… in which case a brand new stadium is better than 3 years with no stadium. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain_Townsend Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 (edited) 2 hours ago, imavillan said: Genuine question. Have you been in the DE/Witton Lane stand at all or recently? IMO It really is borderline as fit for purpose and is way way behind the times. The fan experience in the concourses is 0 out of 10. Trying to get food or drink or even the basics of going to the toilet is an appalling experience. As each year passes it obviously gets worse/further behind. Without buying up the houses behind it there is very little room for expansion there if any. Edit: The same can be said for the NS Yes, two sides of the current stadium are poor. No question. It's one of many reasons why Heck's announced pause unsettled me.thr plan we had solved one major issue we have. As a next phase Ithink there would be ways to do something on Witton Lane. It was hinted at previously. Whether that would involve rebuilding, but starting the lower tier closer to the pitch( there is a much bigger gap to the pitch on that side than at the other stands), at a different angle and building over the Road and the park / or something more ambitious involving some sort of deal with the houses. There is acres of space at the Witton End. When you look at the site on Google maps it sort of hits you what a good site it is and how much potential there is there. If Aston Villa ends up at some sort of mega bowl, indistinguishable from the meggabowls built by other clubs, a huge part of what is unique about us will be gone. Edited February 6 by Captain_Townsend Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa82 Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 If we are to stay at Villa Park, we should ensure permission to build out both the DE and the North Stand. I am afraid that if we build the new North stand first, we will have a huge problem with building out the last stand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imavillan Posted February 7 Share Posted February 7 10 hours ago, Captain_Townsend said: Yes, two sides of the current stadium are poor. No question. It's one of many reasons why Heck's announced pause unsettled me.thr plan we had solved one major issue we have. As a next phase Ithink there would be ways to do something on Witton Lane. It was hinted at previously. Whether that would involve rebuilding, but starting the lower tier closer to the pitch( there is a much bigger gap to the pitch on that side than at the other stands), at a different angle and building over the Road and the park / or something more ambitious involving some sort of deal with the houses. There is acres of space at the Witton End. When you look at the site on Google maps it sort of hits you what a good site it is and how much potential there is there. If Aston Villa ends up at some sort of mega bowl, indistinguishable from the meggabowls built by other clubs, a huge part of what is unique about us will be gone. Yes there's lots of space behind the NS but that's your lot. I just can't see re-developing the DE as a viable option. Buying up all the houses? you'll always get one or two residents 'dig in' and refuse to sell. You end up with a stand off which does the club no good what so ever. Whatever is done redevelop[ing the DE if you have the same or very similar footprint you are going to be hindered. You might have shiney new seats but the behind the scenes fan experience will still be crammed and poor. As for the bowl type stadium It's only the cheap 15/25k that all look the same. You can tell all the 50k plus ones apart and each club have put there own mark on them. I really think an ageing 42k stadium will hold our progress back. I get sentiment, but imo we really need to move on. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain_Townsend Posted February 7 Share Posted February 7 (edited) I am starting to think they have run down the facilities deliberately so kore people think like that. I honestly believe a redeveloped Villa Park would be an amazing, modern, iconic stadium. It wouldn't be the same for me, a huge part of what I love about the club is Villa Park - location and history. Johm Gregory always says Villa Park was perfect, and immaculate. If a clothes hanger broke on a Friday it was fixed by Saturday morning. Can't help but feel there is a reason things aren't like that any more. Edited February 7 by Captain_Townsend Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephen_Evans Posted February 7 Share Posted February 7 5 minutes ago, Captain_Townsend said: Johm Gregory always says Villa Park was perfect, and immaculate. If a clothes hanger broke on a Friday it was fixed by Saturday. Typical Doug, fixing broken clothes hangers instead of buying new ones! 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DakotaVilla Posted February 7 Share Posted February 7 If we truly want to be competitive in the current and next era of the premier league and European football we have no other realistic option but to rebuild the existing stadium or move to a new stadium. We can’t bank on having a manager like Emery forever who is always going to have us outperforming clubs with significantly higher revenue - especially in a PSR/FFP world. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mic09 Posted February 7 Share Posted February 7 It is entirely feasible to stay at VP. While it might not be a brand new stadium, it would be at least half of a brand new stadium. Re-Do North Stand. Look at options of Re-doing Witton. That would bring an additional 15-20k seats on its own, and on top of that I am sure they can squeeze in great hospitality options. Trinity can be modernised to increase revenue. The concourses are vast and can be re-shuffled to sell more beer and get some more ways so fans spend money. Leave Holte End as it is, just modernise it on the inside. We could realistically have a brand new stadium for a fraction of the cost of building a new ground somewhere else. I am expecting a major Heck announcement sometime in the next 12 months. They will not leave VP as it is, it would make little financial sense long term. Unless of course Heck was brought in to maximise revenue with little spend, make the club established in European competitions, and sell it for £600-700m making the owners a nice profit. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andycv Posted February 7 Share Posted February 7 I agree - I am expecting a big announcement on the future of the stadium as part of the 150 year celebrations. I think they know two of the stands aren't good enough and that Trinity needs remodelling - and I expect them to come up with a solution. Probably just not the current North Stand plan! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fun Factory Posted February 7 Share Posted February 7 28 minutes ago, andycv said: I agree - I am expecting a big announcement on the future of the stadium as part of the 150 year celebrations. I think they know two of the stands aren't good enough and that Trinity needs remodelling - and I expect them to come up with a solution. Probably just not the current North Stand plan! Prepare to be disappointed. The club had a well-laid-out plan on redevelopment and have canned it. Just expect small tweaks and a lot more expensive tickets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa89 Posted February 7 Share Posted February 7 15 hours ago, Captain_Townsend said: So we have three viewpoints 3 (my firm position) Spend £100m on a new North Stand and see then if we meed to down the line expand on the Witton Lane side. This gets us a lot of the things a new stadium gets us and for a fraction of the cost. Safe enough the new north stand would cost in excess of £100m by the time all is said and done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post sidcow Posted February 7 VT Supporter Popular Post Share Posted February 7 (edited) 15 hours ago, OutByEaster? said: I think this is the clubs position. To be fair the club have strong form for categorically saying they're not going to do something, and then going ahead and doing exactly that. I wouldn't believe any announcement or declaration they've made about not moving grounds or cancelling a project. We're a club of backtrackers. Edited February 7 by sidcow 5 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidcow Posted February 7 VT Supporter Share Posted February 7 (edited) 1 hour ago, The Fun Factory said: Prepare to be disappointed. The club had a well-laid-out plan on redevelopment and have canned it. Just expect small tweaks and a lot more expensive tickets. Thing is, lets say they increase the tickets by 15% next year, and a further 15% the following year. What do they do then? They will without doubt have people refusing to pay those kind of prices - no one is going to send themselves bankrupt to watch football. This isn't London, people just won't be able to pay amongst the highest ticket prices in the country. There is only so much more income you can get by increasing the price before demand is quashed and you flatline. They HAVE to expand at some point because keeping up with London, and Liverpool and Manchester tourist ticket prices just isn't ever going to happen. Not without multiple league championships and constant Champions league football for a decade or more. Edited February 7 by sidcow 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fun Factory Posted February 7 Share Posted February 7 24 minutes ago, sidcow said: Thing is, lets say they increase the tickets by 15% next year, and a further 15% the following year. What do they do then? They will without doubt have people refusing to pay those kind of prices - no one is going to send themselves bankrupt to watch football. This isn't London, people just won't be able to pay amongst the highest ticket prices in the country. There is only so much more income you can get buy increasing the price before demand is quashed and you flatline. They HAVE to expand at some point because keeping up with London, and Liverpool and Manchester tourist ticket prices just isn't ever going to happen. Not without multiple league championships and constant Champions league football for a decade or more. Well according to Mr Heck that isn't going to happen any time soon- unless he leaves in a few years and we have a new CEO with a new remit. In the meantime, they will keep pushing the prices until demand starts to drop. Expect more GA+ areas and pay over a grand for your season ticket in the posh seats. They will squeeze as much as possible out of the old girl. By then the planning permission will have run out on the North Stand application and we will have to start all over again and waste another 10 years on this. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAMAICAN-VILLAN Posted February 7 Share Posted February 7 Would knocking down VP and recreating it on the same site be possible? Obviously I don't know, but think i've seen some with knowledge of these things say it may not be due to space around the site etc. That would probably be an ideal compromise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain_Townsend Posted February 7 Share Posted February 7 (edited) When you look at Villa Park on Google Maps you realise that we actually have space where we need it - behind our worst stand, the North Stand. Of course Witton Lane is tight but I am sure we have options we didn't have in 1993, and in 1993 we did buy the row of houses that was there. So there is the precedent and potential to do that again. Or perhaps we could build quite a deep stand over the road itself, but at a lower height, and beginning closer to the pitch and using an over hang on the second tier (like the North Bank at Highbury) I honestly see it as quite lazy to say we have maxed out Villa Park and have to build a new ground when we have such a large site, beside two rail stations, motorway, close to the city and beside a grand Historic House! You aren't going to find a better site without spending an absolute fortune and that's before you so much as pour some concrete. Edited February 7 by Captain_Townsend 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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