wishywashy Posted October 4, 2023 Share Posted October 4, 2023 1 hour ago, Rugeley Villa said: Only problem is our fanbase hasn’t developed like City and Spurs has. We aren’t a tourist club , we are not a successful club and our main fanbase is working class/middle class. It feels like they've skipped a few pretty critical steps in their stadium development planning. Most of the existing concourses are awful to the extent that many actively avoid using them, yet their approach seems to be that any improvements that they do bother to make are paywalled as premium hospitality. The facilities management of Villa Park is awful and the wider approach towards improving matters is risky and almost arrogant in its assumption that tourists are ready to come in en-masse. They might be right, additionally they likely have internal data that suggests they might be right. They might also be very wrong. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrBlack Posted October 4, 2023 Share Posted October 4, 2023 (edited) 5 hours ago, OutByEaster? said: Just on the idea that other teams don't put hospitality into their end stands, Manchester City are building this pub into theirs as part of their redevelopment: https://www.dawnvale.com/projects/the-ardwick-etihad-stadium/ I think that's their Terrace View/Lower Grounds type experience. But much more pertinently, these are the concourses they're putting into their new stand: https://www.dawnvale.com/projects/south-stand-concourse-etihad-stadium/ Just to be clear - these aren't a hospitality area, these are concourses - the basic facilities for all fans to use - these are the general access areas. The problem at Villa Park at the moment isn't that we're trying to keep up with other grounds in terms of our hospitality offering, it's that we're making no moves whatsoever so keep up with the likes of City and Spurs on our general concourse offering - on the things we offer to 90% of the supporters in the ground. There's absolutely no reason whatsoever that the Lower and Upper Holte Concourses shouldn't look like something like that in Claret and Blue. I dont think hospitality in City's end stand is relevant. The stadium is new and doesn't really have any history or atmosphere worth worrying about destroying. The Kop doesn't, and old Trafford are taking their's out... Great point about the concourses though. Absolutely could do more for ours, even if there isn't as much space to utilise as the newer stadiums have Edited October 4, 2023 by MrBlack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fun Factory Posted October 4, 2023 Share Posted October 4, 2023 5 hours ago, OutByEaster? said: Just on the idea that other teams don't put hospitality into their end stands, Manchester City are building this pub into theirs as part of their redevelopment: https://www.dawnvale.com/projects/the-ardwick-etihad-stadium/ I think that's their Terrace View/Lower Grounds type experience. But much more pertinently, these are the concourses they're putting into their new stand: https://www.dawnvale.com/projects/south-stand-concourse-etihad-stadium/ Just to be clear - these aren't a hospitality area, these are concourses - the basic facilities for all fans to use - these are the general access areas. The problem at Villa Park at the moment isn't that we're trying to keep up with other grounds in terms of our hospitality offering, it's that we're making no moves whatsoever so keep up with the likes of City and Spurs on our general concourse offering - on the things we offer to 90% of the supporters in the ground. There's absolutely no reason whatsoever that the Lower and Upper Holte Concourses shouldn't look like something like that in Claret and Blue. Another problem is given the age of the stadium, we don't have as much space as that. And the space we do have we seem to be turning to hospitality such as the Holte Terrace. Their should be plenty of space in the new north stand but how much of this will be for the ordinary punters? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrBlack Posted October 4, 2023 Share Posted October 4, 2023 Now that we're not building villa live at the same time, is there any chance of building a lot of the stand behind the current one before it's knocked down, giving us less time with a reduced capacity? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brommy Posted October 4, 2023 Share Posted October 4, 2023 24 minutes ago, MrBlack said: Now that we're not building villa live at the same time, is there any chance of building a lot of the stand behind the current one before it's knocked down, giving us less time with a reduced capacity? I think the need to remove much of the high level ground behind the current North Stand and how that will affect the power, water and drainage connections prohibits the possibility. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterSw Posted October 4, 2023 Share Posted October 4, 2023 7 hours ago, Rugeley Villa said: Only problem is our fanbase hasn’t developed like City and Spurs has. We aren’t a tourist club , we are not a successful club and our main fanbase is working class/middle class. I'd argue that in this day and age, anyone paying decent money to come watch a Premier League match should get at least half decent facilities as the bare minimum. The big wigs have got all this arse about face. Get the standard stuff up to a good standard so people actually enjoy their experience and then build the hospitality 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul514 Posted October 4, 2023 Share Posted October 4, 2023 With regards to the Euro 28 bid, I think posters have missed the biggest bit of info from the story...... Listed on the BBC website is a list of the host stadiums with us listed as...... 7. Villa Park (Birmingham) (52,190) To my knowledge no one has said what our new capacity will be before today when the stand is done..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OutByEaster? Posted October 4, 2023 Moderator Share Posted October 4, 2023 48 minutes ago, MrBlack said: Now that we're not building villa live at the same time, is there any chance of building a lot of the stand behind the current one before it's knocked down, giving us less time with a reduced capacity? It's not possible due to the groundworks and the way in which the North Stand is constructed. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrBlack Posted October 5, 2023 Share Posted October 5, 2023 10 hours ago, PeterSw said: I'd argue that in this day and age, anyone paying decent money to come watch a Premier League match should get at least half decent facilities as the bare minimum. The big wigs have got all this arse about face. Get the standard stuff up to a good standard so people actually enjoy their experience and then build the hospitality But if they did that then no-one pays for the hospitality that can get it for "free" from the concourse. I think they know we're not attracting the volume of day trippers and holiday makers that we need to to sustain that kind of hospitality regularly. They need us to be in the champions league and a sustained success for that. Then they'll not have to supplement the numbers with regular people who are fed up of standing in piss at half time. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blunther Posted October 5, 2023 Share Posted October 5, 2023 13 hours ago, PeterSw said: I'd argue that in this day and age, anyone paying decent money to come watch a Premier League match should get at least half decent facilities as the bare minimum. The big wigs have got all this arse about face. Get the standard stuff up to a good standard so people actually enjoy their experience and then build the hospitality Precisely. Can't give us the "oh they're working class so they won't mind, stuff 'em" treatment while charging £63 for a game. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brommy Posted October 5, 2023 Share Posted October 5, 2023 14 hours ago, paul514 said: With regards to the Euro 28 bid, I think posters have missed the biggest bit of info from the story...... Listed on the BBC website is a list of the host stadiums with us listed as...... 7. Villa Park (Birmingham) (52,190) To my knowledge no one has said what our new capacity will be before today when the stand is done..... The 52k figure was listed when the official bid was made a good while ago. Some discussion on this thread followed, focussing on where the extra 2k seats (above phase one's expansion to 50k) would be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zhan_Zhuang Posted October 5, 2023 Share Posted October 5, 2023 On 04/10/2023 at 11:43, OutByEaster? said: Just on the idea that other teams don't put hospitality into their end stands, Manchester City are building this pub into theirs as part of their redevelopment: https://www.dawnvale.com/projects/the-ardwick-etihad-stadium/ I think that's their Terrace View/Lower Grounds type experience. But much more pertinently, these are the concourses they're putting into their new stand: https://www.dawnvale.com/projects/south-stand-concourse-etihad-stadium/ Just to be clear - these aren't a hospitality area, these are concourses - the basic facilities for all fans to use - these are the general access areas. The problem at Villa Park at the moment isn't that we're trying to keep up with other grounds in terms of our hospitality offering, it's that we're making no moves whatsoever so keep up with the likes of City and Spurs on our general concourse offering - on the things we offer to 90% of the supporters in the ground. There's absolutely no reason whatsoever that the Lower and Upper Holte Concourses shouldn't look like something like that in Claret and Blue. This IS the future... I went to the Allianz fifteen years ago and noticed how much space and options to eat/drink were very good. But I guess they have more space, English grounds are restricted so we cannot be too critical of Villa, this is a necessity for improved revenue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thabucks Posted October 5, 2023 Share Posted October 5, 2023 Interesting some bemoan the fact concourses are cramped and not for modern purpose but then whenever someone comments they wouldn’t mind a new ground somewhere else the same people say they never want to leave Villa Park. Obviously big gunna happen but I’d happily move grounds under the correct circumstances. Citeh have the space and most importantly the well thought out connected nature of the ground to easily implement those changes. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick76 Posted October 5, 2023 Share Posted October 5, 2023 18 hours ago, paul514 said: With regards to the Euro 28 bid, I think posters have missed the biggest bit of info from the story...... Listed on the BBC website is a list of the host stadiums with us listed as...... 7. Villa Park (Birmingham) (52,190) To my knowledge no one has said what our new capacity will be before today when the stand is done..... Yeah I’ve seen that number before, some time ago being reported. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maqroll Posted October 5, 2023 Share Posted October 5, 2023 19 minutes ago, thabucks said: Interesting some bemoan the fact concourses are cramped and not for modern purpose but then whenever someone comments they wouldn’t mind a new ground somewhere else the same people say they never want to leave Villa Park. Obviously big gunna happen but I’d happily move grounds under the correct circumstances. Citeh have the space and most importantly the well thought out connected nature of the ground to easily implement those changes. The only way to build a new stadium would be to do a gound share for the bulk of 2 seasons with West Brom or Coventry while VP is demolished and rebuilt. Can't envision that happening for at least another 20 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sne Posted October 5, 2023 Share Posted October 5, 2023 4 minutes ago, maqroll said: The only way to build a new stadium would be to do a gound share for the bulk of 2 seasons with West Brom or Coventry while VP is demolished and rebuilt. Can't envision that happening for at least another 20 years. If it's in the same location as VP yeah. If it's built at a different location or lot then no. Apparently that seems impossible from what I understand from reading on here. No realistic place to build. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fun Factory Posted October 9, 2023 Share Posted October 9, 2023 On 05/10/2023 at 13:08, brommy said: The 52k figure was listed when the official bid was made a good while ago. Some discussion on this thread followed, focussing on where the extra 2k seats (above phase one's expansion to 50k) would be. Yeah, its interesting they are still quoting this 52,190 figure. It is very precise as well. It is going to be tight to do the full north stand rebuild and this mysterious 'phase two' all within about four years. Personally I think it is more likely it will just be the 50 odd thousand by 2028. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andycv Posted October 9, 2023 Share Posted October 9, 2023 I don't think they'd be able to get away with that, given I understand the bid is binding. Might be wrong though! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brommy Posted October 9, 2023 Share Posted October 9, 2023 5 hours ago, andycv said: I don't think they'd be able to get away with that, given I understand the bid is binding. Might be wrong though! I agree with the recent post by @The Fun Factory. I can't imagine any repercussions if Villa Park is 'only' at 50k capacity. Although I'm not saying 52k won't happen prior to Euro 2028, I won't be surprised if the phase above 50k doesn't happen in time. I've previously seen Villa Park full at 46k but it will be something special to hear 50 thousand announced as the match attendance. Because of segregation, to achieve an actual attendance of 50k+, they'll need to build the next phase after 50k is technically reached. I'm still really hoping 52k is built and I'm very intrigued where the extra 2k will be located without a new D.E. stand. I'm currently guessing: the corner of the D.E. and Holte (restricted view issues?); an extension at the back of the Holte Upper; relying on the government allowing a safe standing ratio of more than the current 1 to 1; or a combination of more than one of the above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidcow Posted October 10, 2023 VT Supporter Share Posted October 10, 2023 On 05/10/2023 at 17:13, thabucks said: Interesting some bemoan the fact concourses are cramped and not for modern purpose but then whenever someone comments they wouldn’t mind a new ground somewhere else the same people say they never want to leave Villa Park. Obviously big gunna happen but I’d happily move grounds under the correct circumstances. Citeh have the space and most importantly the well thought out connected nature of the ground to easily implement those changes. There is a massive difference between moaning about facilities and wanting Villa Park gone. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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