CarewsEyebrowDesigner Posted May 21, 2016 Share Posted May 21, 2016 (edited) 30 minutes ago, MakemineVanilla said: That sounds like a euphemism for land clearances to me. There would be serious moral questions which would need to be asked if Chinese peasants were forcibly removed from land they had traditionally farmed, in a land grab which friends of the government exploited for their own profit. Spending those profits on providing circuses for spoilt westerners would be morally repugnant. We have a responsibility to face up to these questions which go far beyond Villa's status as a club. Well, yes. If it turns out that this deal is, for lack of a better term, state sponsored, then serious questions need to be asked. A lot of fans couldn't give a toss about where the money comes from as long as it keeps coming. Others, myself included, are less keen to see the club become, directly or indirectly, entangled in the political maneuverings of the CCP. But as we have no clear evidence that this is the case, I'm just going to focus on scrutinizing what has been said and whether or not Recon group are capable of backing up their words. At the moment, I don't think they are. Edited May 21, 2016 by CarewsEyebrowDesigner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post VillaCas Posted May 21, 2016 Popular Post Share Posted May 21, 2016 We all wanted to see the back of Lerner but I don't buy into the "anyone would be better than Lerner" rhetoric - we only have to look at previous ownership across the city to see what problems can arise I don't trust Lerner to make good decisions, I don't rate Hollis as an international wheeler dealer, and I'm particularly worried that Xia is not everything he is painted to be - certainly the video we've seen so far does not fill me with confidence. I'd be interested to know where all the money will be coming from because it's far from clear at the moment He could turn out to be the best owner ever but I'll wait until I see some concrete evidence before welcoming him with open arms Still very worrying times to be a Villa supporters 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ooh-Ah Posted May 21, 2016 Share Posted May 21, 2016 I was actually enjoying VT for a couple of days there. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwj Posted May 21, 2016 Share Posted May 21, 2016 Irrespective of Samuelson, Xia etc I'm actually more dubious of straight cash transactions of this size, than leveraged buyouts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantis Posted May 21, 2016 Share Posted May 21, 2016 1 hour ago, TRO said: Well typical Villa.....That bit of good news doesn't seem to have legs either. Jumping to conclusions much? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Posted May 21, 2016 Share Posted May 21, 2016 1 hour ago, mjmooney said: Way upthread I made a similar comment about having had dealings with KPMG, and 'buffoon' was one of the words I used. The other one was 'shyster'. Hmmm.....well I trained with KPMG at the start of my working career in the 1980s and based on personal experience I would disagree with both those descriptions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daweii Posted May 21, 2016 Share Posted May 21, 2016 Just gonna put a bit of positivity out there.. Xia made his bold claim of almost global domination with Aston Villa on the world stage, there isn't a football fan on Earth that hasn't read that he wants us to be a top 3 club in the World better than Man United, Barcelona, Man City, Real Madrid. If he turns out to be a colossal liar and a bit of a chancer he may be unknown now but he'll be damn well known for all the wrong reasons. Have some faith it's not like he said this to some kid on his apprenticeship for some small time blog or something that even Villa fans would barely see, his words were global and repeated by several news networks around the World. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaCas Posted May 21, 2016 Share Posted May 21, 2016 5 minutes ago, dounavilla said: I'm astounded people are worrying considering we have only just been taken over and was clearly in a downward spiral under Randy which was worrying. I'm looking forward with some excitement and hope for the first time in years. You're astounded???? With the decision making record that Lerner has, the stuttering mis-communication eminating from Hollis and the possible involvement of serial wheeler dealer Samualson, you've got no concerns ? Emmmm OK!!! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jareth Posted May 21, 2016 VT Supporter Share Posted May 21, 2016 1 minute ago, Daweii said: Just gonna put a bit of positivity out there.. Xia made his bold claim of almost global domination with Aston Villa on the world stage, there isn't a football fan on Earth that hasn't read that he wants us to be a top 3 club in the World better than Man United, Barcelona, Man City, Real Madrid. If he turns out to be a colossal liar and a bit of a chancer he may be unknown now but he'll be damn well known for all the wrong reasons. Have some faith it's not like he said this to some kid on his apprenticeship for some small time blog or something that even Villa fans would barely see, his words were global and repeated by several news networks around the World. I can still remember the joys of two days ago! What was great about that statement, true or not, is that it grabbed the headlines. In one swoop the media stopped labelling us failures and started labelling us as a potential football powerhouse. I appreciated that a lot. Well done Tony. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommo_b Posted May 21, 2016 Share Posted May 21, 2016 Well this got depressing quick! Personally I think this is going to be a great thing for the club, and I look forward to Dr Tony making Aston Villa a global force again. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wazzap24 Posted May 21, 2016 Share Posted May 21, 2016 4 minutes ago, Jareth said: Already have - he is a financier, the reading deal was not good for reading as it turned out but their board went into that eyes open, the everton funds scenrio were later explained to be a tactic to oust another board member so was never intended to happen, failing to buy 3 clubs with Phoneix consortium because that consortium are not an attractive purchaser (where is the crime there?) - why wouldn't Wyness use someone he has had a business relationship with since 2004 for his latest project? I just don;t see how Samuelson's past dictates that this takeover is rotten - this takeover is not in the slightest bit similar to any of the above examples. That loan shark everyone keeps mentioning, that also is not similar - they lend to existing clubs who want some extra funds for players - they do not provide finance for takeovers. Hope you are right. There's other bits in the Reading piece as well though that worry me. They were trying to 'help' find another buyer after the Russian went wrong, but wanted written guarantees they would be kept in the board and paid £40k per month for a period of time after. Ask yourself this; If you were a multi millionaire/billionaire and you needed advice or help taking over a football club, would you employ Christopher Samuleson's services, given what you have read about him and his previous record? There's is no evidence I can find that he has ever been involved in a successful takeover/buyout of a club, involving anyone with real money. He appears to be a specialist in failure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dounavilla Posted May 21, 2016 Share Posted May 21, 2016 1 minute ago, VillaCas said: You're astounded???? With the decision making record that Lerner has, the stuttering mis-communication eminating from Hollis and the possible involvement of serial wheeler dealer Samualson, you've got no concerns ? Emmmm OK!!! Whoever took take over can go both ways. A Serial Wheeler dealer ? Can you show some proof to back up those accusations or are you just speculating again and I find it ironic you bring up the communications of or previos owner because these mistaken quotes have come from them not Xia. As for this Samuelson, as far as I can see he has committed no crimes so his "dodgy" dealings probally fall into the same category as most from the rich and famous nowadays. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jareth Posted May 21, 2016 VT Supporter Share Posted May 21, 2016 Just now, wazzap24 said: Hope you are right. There's other bits in the Reading piece as well though that worry me. They were trying to 'help' find another buyer after the Russian went wrong, but wanted written guarantees they would be kept in the board and paid £40k per month for a period of time after. Ask yourself this; If you were a multi millionaire/billionaire and you needed advice or help taking over a football club, would you employ Christopher Samuleson's services, given what you have read about him and his previous record? There's is no evidence I can find that he has ever been involved in a successful takeover/buyout of a club, involving anyone with real money. He appears to be a specialist in failure. I completely agree that Samuelson has a shady past, I doubt he could be appointed to our board as he may not pass the proper persons test. The deal at Reading was a precedent for the league, the lender effectively took control and I imagine this was always in their plans should the club be unable to repay. Definite malignant intention from the outset although the Reading board new the deal in the first place, eyes open. The biggest test of if Samuelson is dodgy for AVFC, is if he is lending money to Tony to make the deal happen. I do not believe this to be the case, Tony did not make it to the front of the queue without the money to buy us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted May 21, 2016 Share Posted May 21, 2016 (edited) 16 minutes ago, Mantis said: Jumping to conclusions much? to date....yes not so much conclusions....doubts Edited May 21, 2016 by TRO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Gary Thomas Posted May 21, 2016 Popular Post Share Posted May 21, 2016 (edited) 24 minutes ago, CarewsEyebrowDesigner said: I'm just going to focus on scrutinizing what has been said and whether or not Recon group are capable of backing up their words. At the moment, I don't think they are. This is what I don't get. You have NO information to suggest that, but you much prefer to hold a position that is in direct contradiction to everything Hollis has said - the guy that actually does have the information. I am not criticizing you, I see this kind of dour outlook all over the thread, I just don't understand it. Edited May 21, 2016 by Gary Thomas 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wazzap24 Posted May 21, 2016 Share Posted May 21, 2016 5 minutes ago, dounavilla said: Whoever took take over can go both ways. A Serial Wheeler dealer ? Can you show some proof to back up those accusations or are you just speculating again and I find it ironic you bring up the communications of or previos owner because these mistaken quotes have come from them not Xia. As for this Samuelson, as far as I can see he has committed no crimes so his "dodgy" dealings probally fall into the same category as most from the rich and famous nowadays. Samuelson is a serial wheeler dealer. Reading Everton Bristol Levante Getafe Rangers Mallorca Villa He was 'Involved' in deals to buy or try and buy those clubs. 3 have come off, one of which went Pete tong pretty quickly. Us and Mallorca have only just happened. The rest fell through at various stages, due to either funds not actually being there or the bids being rejected outright. Seems to me that he targets clubs that might be getting a bit desperate in one way or another and none of his 'clients' appear to have any money!! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jareth Posted May 21, 2016 VT Supporter Share Posted May 21, 2016 4 minutes ago, wazzap24 said: Samuelson is a serial wheeler dealer. Reading Everton Bristol Levante Getafe Rangers Mallorca Villa He was 'Involved' in deals to buy or try and buy those clubs. 3 have come off, one of which went Pete tong pretty quickly. Us and Mallorca have only just happened. The rest fell through at various stages, due to either funds not actually being there or the bids being rejected outright. Seems to me that he targets clubs that might be getting a bit desperate in one way or another and none of his 'clients' appear to have any money!! Are you saying that Tony is borrowing money from or via Samuelson? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post dounavilla Posted May 21, 2016 Popular Post Share Posted May 21, 2016 11 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaCas Posted May 21, 2016 Share Posted May 21, 2016 11 minutes ago, dounavilla said: Whoever took take over can go both ways. A Serial Wheeler dealer ? Can you show some proof to back up those accusations or are you just speculating again and I find it ironic you bring up the communications of or previos owner because these mistaken quotes have come from them not Xia. As for this Samuelson, as far as I can see he has committed no crimes so his "dodgy" dealings probally fall into the same category as most from the rich and famous nowadays. That's right - it can go two ways. Most of us are hoping for the best but fearful of the worst - is that so difficult to understand. You stated that "you were astounded" that fans were worried! Quite frankly I'd be "astounded" if fans did not have some concerns I called Samuelson a serial wheeler dealer because he has been involved in half a dozen aborted and troubled attempts to front/represent consortium in aquiring clubs You have no idea where the miscommunication is coming from - is Hapless Hollis misunderstanding himself or is he being fed BS My point by the way is not that the Xia takeover is destined to fail or corrupt it is to counter your point that you are astounded fans have some concerns. With the record that Lerner has what gives you the absolute 100% confidence that everything will be roses and we can look forward to the future without a care in the world 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dounavilla Posted May 21, 2016 Share Posted May 21, 2016 2 minutes ago, VillaCas said: That's right - it can go two ways. Most of us are hoping for the best but fearful of the worst - is that so difficult to understand. You stated that "you were astounded" that fans were worried! Quite frankly I'd be "astounded" if fans did not have some concerns I called Samuelson a serial wheeler dealer because he has been involved in half a dozen aborted and troubled attempts to front/represent consortium in aquiring clubs You have no idea where the miscommunication is coming from - is Hapless Hollis misunderstanding himself or is he being fed BS My point by the way is not that the Xia takeover is destined to fail or corrupt it is to counter your point that you are astounded fans have some concerns. With the record that Lerner has what gives you the absolute 100% confidence that everything will be roses and we can look forward to the future without a care in the world Allow me to correct my statement. I'm astounded people are worried at this stage. I just think this comes down to a personality thing a bit like my post above just without the piss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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