dont_do_it_doug. Posted May 21, 2016 Share Posted May 21, 2016 (edited) 1 hour ago, MakemineVanilla said: The irony would be brutal if the same fans who protested about free-speech when their banners were confiscated, kept silent about accepting dirty money from a country like China. Explain the irony because you haven't done a very good job of presenting it. I've had my freedom of speech restricted many more times in Britain, Villa Park included, than I have in China or by China. Or indeed Dr Xia and the Recon Group. Is it also ironic that I don't join in protests against the British government? How about the American government or the entire Lerner family? If they **** with our club and our freedom of speech then personally I'll be right back there at the front. Where will you be? On a message board chatting about the brutal irony of it all? Edited May 21, 2016 by dont_do_it_doug. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post StanBalaban Posted May 21, 2016 Popular Post Share Posted May 21, 2016 KPMG has over 15 offices in China. Hollis was head of KPMG here in the Middle East, a region that deals heavily with Chinese construction firms that are state owned. Most of Dubai's roads and transport projects are being completed by Chinese firms. Hollis will have an understanding of Chinese business practices, even if they seem like the unknown to us. Whether or not he knows football, the man has the credentials to say he knows his onions when it comes to accounts, auditing, due diligence of involved parties and foreign markets. Add to the mix that Mervyn King enthused about the take over (and I think it's fair to say he could be classed as an expert in his field too) then I'm comfortable with the sale of the club - even if the full picture has yet to be revealed to me. 24 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fun Factory Posted May 21, 2016 Share Posted May 21, 2016 1 hour ago, AntrimBlack said: Gosh, I remember years ago, we used to follow Aston Villa for the football. More innocent times! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaChris Posted May 21, 2016 Share Posted May 21, 2016 3 hours ago, wazzap24 said: The middle ground is; We are all chuffed Lerner has gone. We all HOPE this is the dawn of a great new era. We all WANT the doc to be our saviour - a man to take us back to the Prem and beyond. We are all desperate to see it work. What splits people is the detail (or lack of it). People like me might be making too much of certain things, but for people to not have any concerns at all about this deal? Now that's astonishing. There are legitimate concerns all over the show. Anybody denying that is basing their opinion on hope/optimism alone and ignoring the rest. How are the old fashioned....wait and see what manager he appoints, what about the signings we make and what sort of season we have next year before serious verdicts are delivered. Rather than wanting him kicked out of this country this moment which I'd imagine is being implied from people seemingly wanting this deal to fall through. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaChris Posted May 21, 2016 Share Posted May 21, 2016 3 hours ago, chrisvilla4 said: Sod this finding out info every second on the Internet. I'll wait and see what tonight's sports argus has to say about it. Ha last issue was actually printed in May 2006 so I believe the headline is "Little known American businessman called Randy Lerner interested in buying Aston Villa." 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVTuco Posted May 21, 2016 VT Supporter Share Posted May 21, 2016 2 hours ago, StanBalaban said: KPMG has over 15 offices in China. Hollis was head of KPMG here in the Middle East, a region that deals heavily with Chinese construction firms that are state owned. Most of Dubai's roads and transport projects are being completed by Chinese firms. Hollis will have an understanding of Chinese business practices, even if they seem like the unknown to us. Whether or not he knows football, the man has the credentials to say he knows his onions when it comes to accounts, auditing, due diligence of involved parties and foreign markets. Add to the mix that Mervyn King enthused about the take over (and I think it's fair to say he could be classed as an expert in his field too) then I'm comfortable with the sale of the club - even if the full picture has yet to be revealed to me. With all that experience Hollis has, how has he come out to the public so unprepared and unprofessional? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Christer Posted May 21, 2016 Popular Post Share Posted May 21, 2016 I have been a Villa-fan for more then 60 years, although living in Sweden. You can say I loved the old times and the ultimate thing for me is a club owned by its members. But my love for Villa is stronger then that, so i like my club to compete as high as possible. And times have changed. Premier League lost its moral when the biggest crock of them all, Thaksin Shinawatra bought Man City, so you have to adapt to the system, or start supporting a none league club, like i do home in Sweden. Our new owner is not worse then sheiks or oligarchs. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVTuco Posted May 21, 2016 VT Supporter Share Posted May 21, 2016 2 minutes ago, Christer said: I have been a Villa-fan for more then 60 years, although living in Sweden. You can say I loved the old times and the ultimate thing for me is a club owned by its members. But my love for Villa is stronger then that, so i like my club to compete as high as possible. And times have changed. Premier League lost its moral when the biggest crock of them all, Thaksin Shinawatra bought Man City, so you have to adapt to the system, or start supporting a none league club, like i do home in Sweden. Our new owner is not worse then sheiks or oligarchs. He's no worse, except that he doesn't have the money they have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christer Posted May 21, 2016 Share Posted May 21, 2016 1 minute ago, AVTuco said: He's no worse, except that he doesn't have the money they have. And how do you know that? Nobody else seems to know how much money he can rise Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StanBalaban Posted May 21, 2016 Share Posted May 21, 2016 2 minutes ago, AVTuco said: With all that experience Hollis has, how has he come out to the public so unprepared and unprofessional? Well his experience is not in debate, so I can only assume the information he's come out with has been prepared by his researchers. He hasn't really commented on specifics about the deal, the source of the wealth or the structure of the Recon Group. He's spoken a bit of fluff on Dr. Xia. He did say that Dr. X helped deign the Birdsnest stadium which looks to be incorrect. It was been countered that his firm was involved in the properties immediately surrounding the stadium in Beijing. Either way, I doubt that Big Tone's personal involvement in the stadium project would be relevant to the details gathered in our due diligence on our new owner. I would be very surprised if there was anything relevant that could be found via some Google searches that wouldn't already be known in weeks (possibly months) of investigations as part of the sale. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NurembergVillan Posted May 21, 2016 Moderator Share Posted May 21, 2016 2 hours ago, StanBalaban said: KPMG has over 15 offices in China. Hollis was head of KPMG here in the Middle East, a region that deals heavily with Chinese construction firms that are state owned. Most of Dubai's roads and transport projects are being completed by Chinese firms. Hollis will have an understanding of Chinese business practices, even if they seem like the unknown to us. Whether or not he knows football, the man has the credentials to say he knows his onions when it comes to accounts, auditing, due diligence of involved parties and foreign markets. Add to the mix that Mervyn King enthused about the take over (and I think it's fair to say he could be classed as an expert in his field too) then I'm comfortable with the sale of the club - even if the full picture has yet to be revealed to me. Pah! He can't hold a candle to all the experts on Twitter and VT. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MakemineVanilla Posted May 21, 2016 Share Posted May 21, 2016 3 hours ago, Gary Thomas said: This "dirty money" thing is mostly bollocks. I can't bothered to do dig out the figures, but China is the second biggest economy (soon to be the biggest) in the world. It has been growing at an astounding rate over the last 10-15 years, mainly because just about every 'western company' in the world (e.g. BMW, Starbucks, Tesco, Apple - hundreds of firms) have been scrambling over themselves to pour investment (billions) into the country since it opened its borders in the 1980s and 90s. The growth rate and Foreign direct Investment has been staggering and that has created enormous wealth in China. Have you not noticed all the countries in the world (including the UK) trying to attract inward investment from China. I am not saying their Government is whiter than white - no Government is and China's human rights record is not great, but to try and suggest everything out of China is dirty money is bloody ridiculous. Your just ignoring the blindingly obvious. We know all about China and the elastic ethics of big multinational companies. We also know that since they've held so much of our debt, we can't afford to upset them. We might convince ourselves that we needn't trouble ourselves about how Chinese workers are treated when we buy Chinese-made products. But if we are to claim that Villa is our club and that our relationship with it goes beyond merely being a customer, then the way it is financed and by whom, just has to be our concern, because ultimately whatever the club does must accrue to us personally. Xia's money may be impeccable but we really do need to take an interest in finding out if it is or not. Denial just won't do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjmooney Posted May 21, 2016 VT Supporter Share Posted May 21, 2016 33 minutes ago, Christer said: I have been a Villa-fan for more then 60 years, although living in Sweden. You must be even older than me! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7392craig Posted May 21, 2016 Share Posted May 21, 2016 11 minutes ago, MakemineVanilla said: We know all about China and the elastic ethics of big multinational companies. We also know that since they've held so much of our debt, we can't afford to upset them. We might convince ourselves that we needn't trouble ourselves about how Chinese workers are treated when we buy Chinese-made products. But if we are to claim that Villa is our club and that our relationship with it goes beyond merely being a customer, then the way it is financed and by whom, just has to be our concern, because ultimately whatever the club does must accrue to us personally. Xia's money may be impeccable but we really do need to take an interest in finding out if it is or not. Denial just won't do. And what would we do if we were not happy with what we found out? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meme Posted May 21, 2016 Share Posted May 21, 2016 2 minutes ago, 7392craig said: And what would we do if we were not happy with what we found out? We'll just... cry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villan-scott Posted May 21, 2016 VT Supporter Share Posted May 21, 2016 2 minutes ago, meme said: We'll just... cry There's enough crying going on already before we actually know anything! We've seen Xia do more interviews in a week than Lerner did in 10 years. He's saying the right things currently. I just hope he adds value with his interviews rather than spouting shite. Time will tell on a lot of counts and fears fans have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7392craig Posted May 21, 2016 Share Posted May 21, 2016 3 minutes ago, meme said: We'll just... cry I was thinking that lol Regardless of where the money is coming from, there's nothing we can do about it. Boycott the games? Not me, not if he's pumping money in and employing the right staff and it's enjoyable watching us again. Not on some misplaced morale code, football is littered with teams financed by people who have gotten their money from, shall we say 'shady affairs'? You ever listens to some of the stories about Abromovich? I doubt Chelsea supporters have payed much attention while they've been winning titles, the champions league and other cups. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meme Posted May 21, 2016 Share Posted May 21, 2016 Just now, 7392craig said: I was thinking that lol Regardless of where the money is coming from, there's nothing we can do about it. Boycott the games? Not me, not if he's pumping money in and employing the right staff and it's enjoyable watching us again. Not on some misplaced morale code, football is littered with teams financed by people who have gotten their money from, shall we say 'shady affairs'? You ever listens to some of the stories about Abromovich? I doubt Chelsea supporters have payed much attention while they've been winning titles, the champions league and other cups. Erm, did I say that? *quickly scribbles 'with happiness' infront of cry* What do you mean? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StanBalaban Posted May 21, 2016 Share Posted May 21, 2016 13 minutes ago, NurembergVillan said: Pah! He can't hold a candle to all the experts on Twitter and VT. Thing is, I'd be very surprised if the whole advisory process wasn't outsourced to a firm like KPMG (if not them themselves). Then there will be the mergers and acquisitions partners, which may be part of the same firm, plus the banks and lawyers attached to this. On our side, they would report to Hollis who, probably unlike Lerner, would be fully versed in all the reports that are presented to him and know exactly what he's looking for. The advice, research and legal aspects will all be regulated and underwritten, so that they're duty bound to discover and disclose what needs knowing. I don't know how old Hollis is, but I doubt he'll simply retire when / if he decides to leave Villa, so I doubt he'd risk his professional integrity by failing to do his homework on this deal. He doesn't need to sell this club to some dodgy owners just to help Randy out. Whether or not we get to know the inner workings of how Dr. Xia is financing the purchase and running of the club is one thing, but I'm confident the teams working for Hollis, and Hollis himself, plus the hints given by Mervyn King, suggest that's things are above board. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7392craig Posted May 21, 2016 Share Posted May 21, 2016 2 minutes ago, meme said: Erm, did I say that? *quickly scribbles 'with happiness' infront of cry* What do you mean? It was in reference to MakeMineVanilla's post about taking an interest in the ethics behind where Xia's money comes from. I was referring to you in a joking way about all we can do is cry. There's nothing we can do about where the money comes from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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