HanoiVillan Posted August 29, 2019 Share Posted August 29, 2019 (edited) 2 hours ago, bickster said: For another thread but 5Live thought it would be a great idea to go to Brexit as hell Torquay yesterday and didn’t interview a person under 60 that I could discern. They did find some against the proroguing but in a very polite way. The YouGov snap poll was interesting as only 52% of Torres were in favour and there was a minority but significant number of leavers against it too. Across the Gen Pop is was something like 47% against with only 26% in favour (tons of d/ks) I listened to the Six O'Clock News on Radio 4 last night and they did exactly the same in Stratford. The only two people they interviewed who weren't in favour of No Deal and weren't over retirement age were two EU citizen activists. It seems media organisations are still pretending not to understand, or just genuinely don't care, that you don't exactly get an even sample by asking questions to people in small-town coffee shops during the middle of the work day. EDIT: changed 'under' to 'over' Edited August 29, 2019 by HanoiVillan 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cyrusr Posted August 29, 2019 VT Supporter Share Posted August 29, 2019 Legal Challenges through the Courts have now commenced... Brexit: Gina Miller files for legal challenge to stop Boris Johnson's 'cynical and cowardly' plan to prorogue parliament Quote Anti-Brexit campaigner Gina Miller has as filed an urgent application for a legal challenge to stop Prime Minister Boris Johnson's "cynical and cowardly" plan to prorogue parliament. "Whilst prorogation is an acceptable UK constitutional practice, no prime minister in modern history has attempted to use it in such a brazen manner," Ms Miller wrote on a fundraising website set up fund the urgent application to the high court for a judicial review. Ms Miller, who rose to prominence when she won a legal case forcing parliament to legislate before article 50 could be invoked, said the decision to suspend parliament a few weeks before the Brexit deadline was a "dark day for democracy". Opponents say it stop MPs from playing a full part in the Brexit process as the time they will have to pass laws to stop the UK leaving without a deal on 31 October would be cut. Mr Johnson meanwhile said a Queen's Speech would take place after the suspension, on 14 October, to outline his "very exciting agenda". Launching her legal campaign Ms Miller said that "all Britons, who believe in the rule of law and the preservation of Britain’s internationally respected and democratic traditions, will share my profound sense of dismay at this cynical and cowardly action." She added: "The desperation of using prorogation in this manner illustrates just how unscrupulous the Prime Minister and his advisers have become. They would even cause a constitutional outrage to force through their ideological agenda. They know they lack the legitimate and moral authority to involve our elected representatives and are therefore seeking to bypass them. "These actions are more akin to dictatorship than democracy and as such their legality must be tested in the courts. But we cannot do it alone. Your help, support and generosity will mean we have the resources to act as swiftly and effectively as possible in the extremely limited time we have available." As a result, she said she had instructed her legal team "to once again defend our parliament’s sovereignty by launching an urgent application for Judicial Review." Her announcement came after a motion was filed at the Court of Session in Edinburgh by a cross-party group of more than 70 MPs and peers in a bid to stall Mr Johnson. Lawyers acting for the Scottish National Party’s Joanna Cherry and 74 other MPs and peers expect to be in court in Edinburgh later this week to block the suspension of parliament. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted August 29, 2019 Moderator Share Posted August 29, 2019 48 minutes ago, cyrusr said: I’m am listening right now, the lack of balance of the “callers” is shocking. The position of “the callers” is that everyone voted just to leave so that’s what we should do. That we should stop being so scared of no deal, what will be will be. If it wasn’t so integral to me and my life, I would just give up and let them be stupid. yep had it on in the car on the way to work, I think I lasted 2 miles before I hit Aux 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted August 29, 2019 Share Posted August 29, 2019 I keep starting sentences with 'the worst thing about all this is...' in my head and I have to stop myself. But yeah, him setting out a 'very exciting agenda' 2 weeks before potentially No Deal; it will all be out of date by then. Like it or not, but Brexit doesn't 'end' on 31st October, whatever happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted August 29, 2019 Share Posted August 29, 2019 There are millions that think we’d be better off if it was still 1962. They’re happy to vote for that, because they’ve been told their pensions are protected. Tell them any financial problems will be solved by taking all losses directly and immediately out of current pension provision. I’d imagine support for this brave new 1962 would drop to around 10% 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterms Posted August 29, 2019 Share Posted August 29, 2019 1 hour ago, LondonLax said: I thought this article was worth reading. Apologies for the editing! From an Australian paper: https://www.smh.com.au/world/europe/brexit-we-re-now-seeing-the-final-contradictions-play-out-20190829-p52lxu.html This point is something which never seems to get much discussion in our media: Quote This trick of rebuilding globalisation through lots of new bilateral agreements is really designed to preserve the mythology of national sovereignty: to say Britain will remain in the global economy, but on its own terms... ...What the Tories definitely won’t do is tame globalisation by asserting more national economic control. Our national debate is framed in terms of taking back control as a country, but the agenda is actually about extending more control as a class, an internationally mobile and supranational class with no allegiance to any nation, other than rhetorically and for misleading effect. A course of action aimed at furthering the interests of our country and its people may or may not involved leaving the EU at some point, but would in no way resemble what is currently being planned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted August 29, 2019 Share Posted August 29, 2019 55 minutes ago, chrisp65 said: There are millions that think we’d be better off if it was still 1962. They’re happy to vote for that, because they’ve been told their pensions are protected. Tell them any financial problems will be solved by taking all losses directly and immediately out of current pension provision. I’d imagine support for this brave new 1962 would drop to around 10% its only 8 years off the alternative of 1970’s Britain under a Corbyn government and ‘62 had shorter skirts and less hippies 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted August 29, 2019 Share Posted August 29, 2019 11 minutes ago, tonyh29 said: its only 8 years off the alternative of 1970’s Britain under a Corbyn government and ‘62 had shorter skirts and less hippies My first version was 1957, then I realised everyone on here would vote for it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amsterdam_Neil_D Posted August 29, 2019 Share Posted August 29, 2019 1 hour ago, HanoiVillan said: media organisations They love a good disaster more than anything else. Unlike things like fires or terrorism they can't actually light the fire so too speak. This is different, they can actively help light the fuse by messing up the information flow and hope it all goes spectacularly wrong. The more bad news there is the happier they are IMO, if they can help sink the Titanic then they will & enjoy the work it gives them for the next few years. Even respected media outlets have let themselves down with Brexit. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted August 29, 2019 Share Posted August 29, 2019 1 minute ago, Amsterdam_Neil_D said: They love a good disaster more than anything else. Unlike things like fires or terrorism they can't actually light the fire so too speak. This is different, they can actively help light the fuse by messing up the information flow and hope it all goes spectacularly wrong. The more bad news there is the happier they are IMO, if they can help sink the Titanic then they will & enjoy the work it gives them for the next few years. Even respected media outlets have let themselves down with Brexit. It’s rarely journalism, it’s often just sharing the latest gossip from selected partial insiders, then just letting the camera roll in front of fandoms. I imagine sometimes they accidentally stick the camera in front of a mid afternoon shopping couple and they turn out to be sensible informed people. This is not good telly, and they continue on their search for mad Beryl who doesn’t like the French and wants all cars to be Austin 1100’s. If possible, she should reference Dunkirk, but never Dresden. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amsterdam_Neil_D Posted August 29, 2019 Share Posted August 29, 2019 4 minutes ago, chrisp65 said: just sharing the latest gossip from selected partial insiders, I suggest that this is not really journalism, I think they are being led a merry dance because of social media, I don't actually think they can sort all the information into something resembling an oversight of what is going on. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted August 29, 2019 Share Posted August 29, 2019 3 minutes ago, Amsterdam_Neil_D said: I suggest that this is not really journalism, I think they are being led a merry dance because of social media, I don't actually think they can sort all the information into something resembling an oversight of what is going on. They can if they want to. We’ve had 3 years of the media reacting instantly to the latest gossip. Take a step back, take a week to build a coherent factual article. Present it in a grown up accessible way. Make them respond to it. Like a sort of journalist. But they can’t, its got to be hot takes! on hot news! Which means, for example, a Newsnight article can be disputed by a disingenuous guest, but the presenter can’t do anything about it, because they don’t know the facts, because the ‘script’ was written 20 minutes before going on air and they have no depth of knowledge. It’s how Johnson gets away with being a compulsive liar, it’s how Labour get away with not having a coherent policy on Brexit in 36 months. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisVillan Posted August 29, 2019 Share Posted August 29, 2019 Yeah but Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted August 29, 2019 Share Posted August 29, 2019 46 minutes ago, chrisp65 said: My first version was 1957, then I realised everyone on here would vote for it. Sign me up , I could get to see Villa win an FA cup in my lifetime that way 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amsterdam_Neil_D Posted August 29, 2019 Share Posted August 29, 2019 8 minutes ago, tonyh29 said: Sign me up , I could get to see Villa win an FA cup in my lifetime that way Again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted August 29, 2019 VT Supporter Share Posted August 29, 2019 6 hours ago, cyrusr said: Legal Challenges through the Courts have now commenced... Brexit: Gina Miller files for legal challenge to stop Boris Johnson's 'cynical and cowardly' plan to prorogue parliament This won't achieve much, if anything. Parliament will have to solve this, not a court. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted August 29, 2019 VT Supporter Share Posted August 29, 2019 Quoted more for the Libertarian-Nationalist alliance call out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted August 29, 2019 VT Supporter Share Posted August 29, 2019 Not many of them will. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romavillan Posted August 29, 2019 VT Supporter Share Posted August 29, 2019 I NEVER thought I'd see the day when the UK is seen in the same light as a banana republic. If this English Nationalist version of the Tories, these Eton and Oxbridge elite words removed, get their way then it really is game over for the UK. The union will break up, England will crumble, these toffs will use the fruits of their cuts to education as bog and pot washers, hire expertise in the shape of over £32k earning foreign labour where necessary. Deregulation, privatisation of the NHS... It's a massively shit state of affairs. and when the wheels really fall off then the next great enemy will be multiculturalism in England. The hate will be directed against black and asian people, people like Katie Hopkins are already at it. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted August 29, 2019 VT Supporter Share Posted August 29, 2019 Multiculturalism is already the enemy. It's a considerable part of the reason this thread has to exist at all. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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