AXD Posted August 28, 2019 Share Posted August 28, 2019 I am not from the UK, so my view is probably influenced in a different direction, but I find it hard to understand how a prime minister (who nobody voted for) can bypass parliament to push something through that a minority of the people support (I assume that not all brexit voters are ok with a no deal-brexit). Taking control indeed. I am not sure if the problems will be as bad as predicted, but even if they are half as bad, both the UK and Europe will take heavy economic damage. And all of this because a few guys want to make a name for themselves in history books? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted August 28, 2019 Moderator Share Posted August 28, 2019 1 minute ago, AXD said: And all of this because a few guys want to make a name for themselves in history books Boris aside (as that may actually be his reason) that isn't the reason they are doing this, it's all about making money for a small amount of people, turning the UK into a Tax Haven and retaining power amongst the smallest set of people possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LakotaDakota Posted August 28, 2019 Share Posted August 28, 2019 3 hours ago, bickster said: Who will absolutely not be the President at any time a trade deal is struck should be able to get something sorted out within the next 5 years Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted August 28, 2019 Moderator Share Posted August 28, 2019 1 minute ago, LakotaDakota said: should be able to get something sorted out within the next 5 years I seriously doubt he'll be functioning that long, He either won't get re-elected or will have completely lost his marbles inside 3 years Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted August 28, 2019 Author Moderator Share Posted August 28, 2019 2 hours ago, Xann said: That's where the emergency exit is I wish he'd feck off through it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LakotaDakota Posted August 28, 2019 Share Posted August 28, 2019 Think you'll probably have to hope for the marbles as i can see him getting in again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xann Posted August 28, 2019 Share Posted August 28, 2019 1 minute ago, blandy said: I wish he'd feck off through it. Hopefully the fire at the front will provide some impetus, if the cliff edge isn't enough? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted August 28, 2019 Moderator Share Posted August 28, 2019 6 minutes ago, LakotaDakota said: Think you'll probably have to hope for the marbles as i can see him getting in again Oh I think it'll be the marbles too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted August 28, 2019 VT Supporter Share Posted August 28, 2019 14 minutes ago, AXD said: I am not from the UK, so my view is probably influenced in a different direction, but I find it hard to understand how a prime minister (who nobody voted for) can bypass parliament to push something through that a minority of the people support (I assume that not all brexit voters are ok with a no deal-brexit). Taking control indeed. I am not sure if the problems will be as bad as predicted, but even if they are half as bad, both the UK and Europe will take heavy economic damage. And all of this because a few guys want to make a name for themselves in history books? We don't vote for a PM, officially (and the role constitutionally is neither here nor there) so unfortunately the governing party can replace their leadership and in the system that's completely fine. As for bypassing parliament, well... Reason left the station a long time ago. As for why this is happening, it's not really about history books. Perhaps it is for Boris, who is driven seemingly entirely by his own ego to any cost. But the other driving factors have far, far more basic reasons for it. They'll make money from it. There's a number of reasonably powerful people who would like to see the UK remove itself from the EU sphere of influence and look elsewhere, which will create opportunities for them and their friends. Then there's a small pond of businesses that would benefit from the EU being kicked out of UK affairs, and some pond life that will benefit from the chaos in the markets. And then there's the useful idiots enabling it. And alongside that there's those that are acting to keep the Tory party alive as they believe the European question cuts through the party so deeply that not going through with Brexit will kill the party. Nobody is acting in good faith here in the controlling positions of the Brexiteer ranks. They all have a stake in things that are not for the greater good of the country - they're for the greater good of their wallets, and to fair shaker extent, to the good of the Tory party. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted August 28, 2019 Author Moderator Share Posted August 28, 2019 8 minutes ago, Chindie said: to a far shakier extent, to the good of the Tory party They might think that, but I doubt it's true in reality. I mean Brexit is going to create (obviously) remained types who hate the tories forever for doing Brexit, and the leavers are going to be mad as hell when they don't get what they were promised and will blame the tories, no matter how much various throwers try to slope shoulders and blame everyone else but themselves. It's one ray of sunshine in a storm of utter poo, the tories are toast electorally, whatever short term polls might tell us over the next few weeks. Once the fan is hit, the muck is going to bury the words removed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted August 28, 2019 Share Posted August 28, 2019 39 minutes ago, LakotaDakota said: should be able to get something sorted out within the next 5 years 35 minutes ago, bickster said: I seriously doubt he'll be functioning that long, He either won't get re-elected or will have completely lost his marbles inside 3 years The genuine impediment is that any new trade deal would have to pass the House of Representatives, which Republicans do not control, do not look like taking control of next year, and which will have no incentive at all to give Donald Trump a big foreign policy/trade win. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted August 28, 2019 VT Supporter Share Posted August 28, 2019 2 minutes ago, blandy said: They might think that, but I doubt it's true in reality. I mean Brexit is going to create (obviously) remained types who hate the tories forever for doing Brexit, and the leavers are going to be mad as hell when they don't get what they were promised and will blame the tories, no matter how much various throwers try to slope shoulders and blame everyone else but themselves. It's one ray of sunshine in a storm of utter poo, the tories are toast electorally, whatever short term polls might tell us over the next few weeks. Once the fan is hit, the muck is going to bury the words removed. I don't think they'll be buried. All the problems Brexit creates won't be the Tories fault. It'll be everyone else - the EU, Remainers, the Labour party, individuals who didn't believe enough regardless of rosette, etc - and/or the argument will be that the problems aren't that bad anyway I'm alright Jack bluster, and so on. Ultimately a lot of England likes the Tories, and when it comes to the polls they'll vote just as they always do. Even a sizeable chunk of Remainers in time, when the reality of Brexit realised and the Rubicon crossed. I wish this wasn't the case, but it will be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted August 28, 2019 Moderator Share Posted August 28, 2019 4 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said: The genuine impediment is that any new trade deal would have to pass the House of Representatives, which Republicans do not control, do not look like taking control of next year, and which will have no incentive at all to give Donald Trump a big foreign policy/trade win. ... and Nancy Pelosi (and others) have already stated that any deal that endangers the GFA will not be considered 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted August 28, 2019 Share Posted August 28, 2019 Just now, bickster said: ... and Nancy Pelosi (and others) have already stated that any deal that endangers the GFA will not be considered Exactly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted August 28, 2019 Author Moderator Share Posted August 28, 2019 Just now, Chindie said: All the problems Brexit creates won't be the Tories fault. It'll be everyone else - the EU, Remainers, the Labour party, individuals who didn't believe enough regardless of rosette, etc - and/or the argument will be that the problems aren't that bad anyway I'm alright Jack bluster, and so on. Ultimately a lot of England likes the Tories I agree they'll try to Blame everyone else, I don't think it'll stick, though. I don't think a lot of England likes the tories, I think they are tolerated more than liked, and that is on the (right or not) basis that the tories are stable, responsible, careful, keep things ticking along, and up for those who want to get on and all that (rubbish). Brexit will totally kill that false belief for once and all, IMO. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted August 28, 2019 VT Supporter Share Posted August 28, 2019 43 minutes ago, bickster said: I seriously doubt he'll be functioning that long, He either won't get re-elected or will have completely lost his marbles inside 3 years The cholesterol is the safer bet imo. Go Team Fat ****! Clog dem arteries! 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted August 28, 2019 Share Posted August 28, 2019 A thread worth reading through: especially this tweet: I'd like to see his take on the idea doing the rounds that Prorogation can be extended merely by a further proclamation (it doesn't appear to be the case looking at the Prorogation Act). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AXD Posted August 28, 2019 Share Posted August 28, 2019 37 minutes ago, Chindie said: We don't vote for a PM, officially (and the role constitutionally is neither here nor there) so unfortunately the governing party can replace their leadership and in the system that's completely fine. As for bypassing parliament, well... Reason left the station a long time ago. We don’t either in Belgium, but every party says more or less who is their candidate is should they be the largest party. What I mean is, Boris was not the one put forward, otherwise the result of the last election would have probably been different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted August 28, 2019 Moderator Share Posted August 28, 2019 3 minutes ago, AXD said: Boris was not the one put forward Ah but neither was the last Labour Prime Minister Gordon Brown, he was a midtermer too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cyrusr Posted August 28, 2019 VT Supporter Share Posted August 28, 2019 (edited) Whilst the brexit issue is vastly important, but on whichever side of that fence you sit, what Boris is doing is a significant constitutional crisis. Boris is a person who, at best, was voted for by 92,153 people, is leading this country in a decision that the vast majority of his peers (MPs) don’t agree with. That is 0.14% of the population of the UK. Whilst the executive leads the country, the sovereignty has been for 100s of years within parliament and again recently confirmed through this process. If he is allowed to take to remove parliament from the decision making process, what is to stop him or another PM from doing the same for another decision? Next time there will be a different justification to remove parliament and if they cannot stop it now, they won’t be able to stop it in the future. It is one step towards an autocracy and that I hope we can all agree on, is never, ever in the best interest of anyone except for those in charge. Edited August 28, 2019 by cyrusr Font size. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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