The now-enacted will of (some of) the people

[OutByEaster?]

So, I'm confused - for a moment today, I thought Brexit had ended.

May said she'll put her deal to Parliament in mid-March - and she's taken away the big bad wolf by saying that if they don't like it, she won't No-Deal unless they vote for that. Now they hated her deal last time and the time before and in so far as I'm aware, she hasn't changed a single thing about it - so I'd assume that without the sword of Damocles, they'll be free to hate it even more and it'll be voted down in even more farcical numbers.

They'll then (hopefully) take up her offer and overwhelmingly vote against a No-Deal - because they aren't suicidal. That then triggers a vote on whether they'll want a delay, which given that not delaying is No-deal or back to May's deal, both of which they'd have battered into submission in the preceding two days you'd think they'd be thoroughly behind. 

I then supposed that either a delay doesn't get accepted by the EU, in which case it would maybe trigger an election or, they'll accept it and we'll be delayed long enough to get to another election. Given that Remain currently has a very large majority, I think that both parties would campaign on a New=Leader-New-Referendum basis and they'd both hope to God that Remain would win and not saddle them with the colossal clusterpork that's currently doing for the robot.

Therefore - Brexit dead and everyone back to trying to have an influence on the EU to either become more or less dominated by corporations and banks depending on who is in charge here at the time.

But....

Then I missed a couple of hours and apparently she doesn't mean it, she just wants to keep everyone sat down and listening and to take the legs out of the amendment that's being voted on tomorrow or something and now everything is the same but completely different.

Can anyone summarise today please?

 

[bickster]

6 minutes ago, OutByEaster? said:

So, I'm confused - for a moment today, I thought Brexit had ended.

May said she'll put her deal to Parliament in mid-March - and she's taken away the big bad wolf by saying that if they don't like it, she won't No-Deal unless they vote for that. Now they hated her deal last time and the time before and in so far as I'm aware, she hasn't changed a single thing about it - so I'd assume that without the sword of Damocles, they'll be free to hate it even more and it'll be voted down in even more farcical numbers.

They'll then (hopefully) take up her offer and overwhelmingly vote against a No-Deal - because they aren't suicidal. That then triggers a vote on whether they'll want a delay, which given that not delaying is No-deal or back to May's deal, both of which they'd have battered into submission in the preceding two days you'd think they'd be thoroughly behind. 

I then supposed that either a delay doesn't get accepted by the EU, in which case it would maybe trigger an election or, they'll accept it and we'll be delayed long enough to get to another election. Given that Remain currently has a very large majority, I think that both parties would campaign on a New=Leader-New-Referendum basis and they'd both hope to God that Remain would win and not saddle them with the colossal clusterpork that's currently doing for the robot.

Therefore - Brexit dead and everyone back to trying to have an influence on the EU to either become more or less dominated by corporations and banks depending on who is in charge here at the time.

But....

Then I missed a couple of hours and apparently she doesn't mean it, she just wants to keep everyone sat down and listening and to take the legs out of the amendment that's being voted on tomorrow or something and now everything is the same but completely different.

Can anyone summarise today please?

 

May and Corbyn aren't telling the truth. As you were

[OutByEaster?]

Just now, bickster said:

May and Corbyn aren't telling the truth. As you were

Isn't it difficult to lie about whether you're going to let people vote on stuff in two weeks?

Also, what's in it for her - if she opens up the suggestion that she won't allow a No-Deal she's dead - it's a suicide note - she's held the country to ransom for three months on the basis of being a mad enough old witch to press the button - giving up on that pretence ends her doesn't it?

 

[snowychap]

8 minutes ago, OutByEaster? said:

Then I missed a couple of hours

Given the utopian outlook of the first few paras, I'm assuming that was you sleeping off whatever you'd had earlier.

[snowychap]

7 minutes ago, OutByEaster? said:

Isn't it difficult to lie about whether you're going to let people vote on stuff in two weeks?

Have you missed the last few months, OBE?

[Genie]

The least painful way out of this mess is a second vote, and remain wins.

Of course there will be annoyed Brexiteers but it’s the least messy outcome. At least the walls won’t cave in 

[blandy]

24 minutes ago, OutByEaster? said:

Can anyone summarise today please?

Both May and Corbyn want Brexit to happen. Both May and Corbyn have today/yesterday unwillingly done the minimum necessary that they can get away with to avoid more people leaving their respective parties. And to quote someone or otherpretty much "nothing has changed". The two leaders are still in their different ways putting themselves and their views ahead of any attempt at consensus for the benefit of the nation.

[blandy]

19 minutes ago, OutByEaster? said:

if she opens up the suggestion that she won't allow a No-Deal she's dead - it's a suicide note - she's held the country to ransom for three months on the basis of being a mad enough old witch to press the button - giving up on that pretence ends her doesn't it?

Yes. Spot on. She's gone anyway, but it delays it for a bit, she hopes. She's a remarkable mix of utterly indecisive and unable to actually take a decision, make  choice and utterly blinkeredly unbendingly carrying on as if she can achieve her version of Brexit means no immigrants.

[snowychap]

 

7 hours ago, blandy said:

8 hours ago, snowychap said:

What kind of gullible clearing in the woods would you have to be to believe in any 'commitment' from this Prime Minister?

A tory

This one, unfortunately:

 

Edited February 26, 2019 by snowychap

[ml1dch]

16 minutes ago, blandy said:

Yes. Spot on. She's gone anyway, but it delays it for a bit, she hopes. She's a remarkable mix of utterly indecisive and unable to actually take a decision, make  choice and utterly blinkeredly unbendingly carrying on as if she can achieve her version of Brexit means no immigrants.

I think this has now changed and she's no longer dithering. She knows both what she wants (her negotiated agreement to pass) and knows how to do it (sit tight).

She's playing Parliament, and actually doing it surprisingly well. Give them their votes, let them get excited about a three month extension. 

Get to early May, no legislation has been passed to make the European elections happen, then the argument is between her deal as presented or nothing.

She just has to look busy, and she'll get what she wants.

[sharkyvilla]

6 hours ago, mjmooney said:

Finally (and probably too late) Labour come up with a sensible suggestion: second referendum, with the two choices being 'remain' or 'May's deal'. No deal being very sensibly ruled out as insane. You'd think that all MPs bar the handful of swivel-eyed loons would back this. Wouldn't you? 

I said a while ago that this, or alternatively an election, is the only way the stalemate can get broken.  I just see no other option as there is nothing that will please enough MPs to get through parliament.  Why it's taken Labour this long to work it out I have no idea.

[mjmooney]

58 minutes ago, sharkyvilla said:

I said a while ago that this, or alternatively an election, is the only way the stalemate can get broken.  I just see no other option as there is nothing that will please enough MPs to get through parliament.  Why it's taken Labour this long to work it out I have no idea.

Trouble is, if it's an election, what will be in the two main parties' manifestos? The Tories are split down the middle leave/remain. Labour are mostly remain, but their leader has nailed his colours to the leave mast. So all either could do is shrug and kick it back to the second referendum (leave or the May deal), and promise to implement whichever one won. I guess this would at least have the advantage of (a) ruling out a suicidal no deal, and (b) getting back to fighting the election on something other than Brexit, i.e. austerity v public spending. Just like the good old days. I would imagine this would be a huge relief for all concerned. 

Edited February 26, 2019 by mjmooney

[snowychap]

4 minutes ago, mjmooney said:

Trouble is, if it's an election, what will be in the two main parties' manifestos? The Tories are split down the middle leave/remain. Labour are mostly remain, but their leader has nailed his colours to the leave mast. So all either could do is shrug and kick it back to the second referendum (leave or the May deal), and promise to implement whichever one won. I guess this would at least have the advantage of (a) ruling out a suicidal no deal, and (b) getting back to fighting the election on something other than Brexit, i.e. austerity v public spending. Just like the good old days. I would imagine this would be a huge relief for all concerned. 

'May's deal' is merely a withdrawal agreement.

Brexit and the discussion about it wouldn't end with ratification of the, currently on the table (or any other), withdrawal agreement.

[bickster]

Brexit isn’t going away for the next decade, whichever way the wind blows

It'll go away more quickly if we remain, the Leavers will die sooner than the Remainers will if we leave.

[chrisp65]

5 minutes ago, bickster said:

, the Leavers will die sooner than the Remainers will if we leave.

we'll have to eat them

[villa4europe]

love it

[snowychap]

13 hours ago, ml1dch said:

https://www.businessinsider.com/brexit-michael-gove-ministers-to-hold-emergency-meeting-over-no-deal-chaos-2019-2?r=US&IR=T

Quote

The UK government is due to hold emergency talks with industry leaders today after discovering that the country doesn't have the right pallets to continue exporting goods to the European Union if it crashes out without a deal next month.

 

 

[snowychap]

 

[HanoiVillan]

Apropos of not much at all, here are three pundits having a go at predicting what's going to happen on Newsnight:

 

[blandy]

10 hours ago, ml1dch said:

I think this has now changed and she's no longer dithering. She knows both what she wants (her negotiated agreement to pass) and knows how to do it (sit tight).

She's playing Parliament, and actually doing it surprisingly well. Give them their votes, let them get excited about a three month extension. 

Get to early May, no legislation has been passed to make the European elections happen, then the argument is between her deal as presented or nothing.

She just has to look busy, and she'll get what she wants.

She was delaying until right before 29 March, but there’s a crack in that both the end date may drift and no deal may get eliminated. She’s losing her grip on her rigid plan. She’s been trying to wear down anyone with a different take on Brexit until the wall is hit, but the wall is being shifted out the way a bit and her hands are starting to be prised from the wheel. She’s not playing parliament well. They’ve started showing signs of life beyond doing as they’re told by leaders.