LondonLax Posted March 6, 2019 Share Posted March 6, 2019 Three weeks to go... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romavillan Posted March 6, 2019 VT Supporter Share Posted March 6, 2019 32 minutes ago, snowychap said: Wow, so a do or die vote like 2 days before completely **** the country with no deal? Has no-one told them about my driving license? There's no way I can get it sorted in 2 days, this is **** Italy FFS I'd have to bribe or shoot someone to do it in 2 days! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted March 6, 2019 Share Posted March 6, 2019 36 minutes ago, snowychap said: If true, it's over to rudd / gauke / Harrington etc to actually follow through on their threats 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted March 6, 2019 Share Posted March 6, 2019 16 minutes ago, romavillan said: Wow, so a do or die vote like 2 days before completely **** the country with no deal? Has no-one told them about my driving license? There's no way I can get it sorted in 2 days, this is **** Italy FFS I'd have to bribe or shoot someone to do it in 2 days! Do you have to agree that you'll ignore all rules of the road before they give you an Italian driving licence? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post romavillan Posted March 7, 2019 VT Supporter Popular Post Share Posted March 7, 2019 8 hours ago, snowychap said: Do you have to agree that you'll ignore all rules of the road before they give you an Italian driving licence? They just take the indicators off your car and you have a white line and sign ignoring course. Higher level stuff like a 4 lane change in one move with no indicators and no attention to mirrors I think is genetic. 2 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted March 7, 2019 Moderator Share Posted March 7, 2019 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted March 7, 2019 Author Moderator Share Posted March 7, 2019 2 hours ago, bickster said: The widespread ignorance of the fact that the ‘backstop’ is the British proposal, agreed after *we* rejected the EU’s. Kind of, it is our's in that it's May's, not theirs. But it's both of ours in that both the EU and May's team agreed to it. So I think the media focus on the UK gov't disfunction on this is also reflected by the EU. The (any) focus on "May's deal" being rejected is right, IMO. We/She wouldn't need the contentious backstop if it weren't for her personal red lines. These are not parliaments red lines. It's her. She's the problem. Her deal with the EU was rejected resoundingly by our parliament. Her complete refusal to change it or come up with an alternative is the core issue. That's where the focus should lie. The media should be reporting on that issue - May's ineptitude and pig-headed refusal to acknowledge reality. What she's doing is a disgrace to our parliamentary democracy and an illustration of how dishonourable she is. The media should also, I feel, report much more of the EU side/view so we can see both sides of the "negotiation"/crisis. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romavillan Posted March 7, 2019 VT Supporter Share Posted March 7, 2019 1 hour ago, blandy said: The widespread ignorance of the fact that the ‘backstop’ is the British proposal, agreed after *we* rejected the EU’s. Kind of, it is our's in that it's May's, not theirs. But it's both of ours in that both the EU and May's team agreed to it. So I think the media focus on the UK gov't disfunction on this is also reflected by the EU. The (any) focus on "May's deal" being rejected is right, IMO. We/She wouldn't need the contentious backstop if it weren't for her personal red lines. These are not parliaments red lines. It's her. She's the problem. Her deal with the EU was rejected resoundingly by our parliament. Her complete refusal to change it or come up with an alternative is the core issue. That's where the focus should lie. The media should be reporting on that issue - May's ineptitude and pig-headed refusal to acknowledge reality. What she's doing is a disgrace to our parliamentary democracy and an illustration of how dishonourable she is. The media should also, I feel, report much more of the EU side/view so we can see both sides of the "negotiation"/crisis. Some of her red lines though were an attempt to keep the ERG on side. Which whilst working about as well as the rest of the last couple of years of Brexit tactics also means that she couldn't get a softer version to avoid dividing Ireland and Northern Ireland again. Even a billion pound bung couldn't get the DUP to stay loyal. The EU haven't tried to foist anything on anyone, they said from the very start that first the Irish border and the divorce payments needed sorting out, then we could talk about the rest of it. The fact that only 3 weeks from the UK's assisted suicide the tories are STILL divided over the Irish border etc, isn't the EU's fault. The EU have been crystal clear from the start and haven't moved the goalposts in the slightest. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted March 7, 2019 Moderator Share Posted March 7, 2019 No mention of a second referendum then, throbber! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted March 7, 2019 Author Moderator Share Posted March 7, 2019 36 minutes ago, romavillan said: Some of her red lines though were an attempt to keep the ERG on side. Which whilst working about as well as the rest of the last couple of years of Brexit tactics also means that she couldn't get a softer version to avoid dividing Ireland and Northern Ireland again. Yes, I agree. Even if that was initially wise (it wasn't it was monumentally mad) it failed, and she should have changed once it failed. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted March 7, 2019 Author Moderator Share Posted March 7, 2019 Just now, bickster said: No mention of a second referendum then, throbber! It **** isn't, the lying clearing in the woods. He wants it. His party no, but him and his band of bells, they do. words removed. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted March 7, 2019 Share Posted March 7, 2019 2 minutes ago, blandy said: It **** isn't, the lying clearing in the woods. He wants it. His party no, but him and his band of bells, they do. words removed. Organising cross party talks to try and conjur up a brexit plan a majority can agree on. Hopefully, all the wide eyed youthful beautiful people with their euro berets and people's vote placards and momentum memberships are just beginning to work out that something's not quite right here. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted March 7, 2019 Share Posted March 7, 2019 26 minutes ago, blandy said: It **** isn't, the lying clearing in the woods. He wants it. His party no, but him and his band of bells, they do. words removed. What more can Labour do to prevent a No Deal Brexit, specifically? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted March 7, 2019 Share Posted March 7, 2019 14 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said: What more can Labour do to prevent a No Deal Brexit, specifically? To answer my question, the only real answer is 'vote for May's WA'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted March 7, 2019 Moderator Share Posted March 7, 2019 35 minutes ago, chrisp65 said: Organising cross party talks to try and conjur up a brexit plan a majority can agree on. Hopefully, all the wide eyed youthful beautiful people with their euro berets and people's vote placards and momentum memberships are just beginning to work out that something's not quite right here. There are polls suggesting that the youth vote has been deserting Labour in droves for months Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted March 7, 2019 Moderator Share Posted March 7, 2019 6 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said: To answer my question, the only real answer is 'vote for May's WA'. They can't do that, it doesn't fit any of the myriad of unicorns (+1) that was agreed at the conference as policy. Slightly connected: I think it was in today's Daily Mirror that a poll was published suggesting that 76% of Labour voters in the NW want a second referendum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romavillan Posted March 7, 2019 VT Supporter Share Posted March 7, 2019 (edited) Yeah it's a perfect storm, Corbyn was/is anti EU for the right reasons (i.e. not a racist d*ckwad like the red white and blue eng-ger-lund tories) in that the EU started as a get together for trans-Alpine steel and other heavy industries interests. To set prices and all that jazz, it was never a people first thing. However, for him to retain that principled stand at this time is pure insanity, he even acknowledges that the "tory brexit" is about deregulation, loss of rights etc. and the best way of protecting all that is to just not leave. Don't feed the instability, the hate etc. by being complicit in the UK leaving, or worse still be complicit in a no deal. Then the time for reforming the EU to be less about big business will be after this crisis is over. After all that France is going through and the general rise of the nasty wing of the right throughout the continent I reckon the EU will be bang up for moving in that direction anyway just to take some wind out of populist sails. Right now the only valid opposition to the total f***wad far right gangbang that is the conservative party and how they are "handling" brexit is to 1. Stop no-deal and 2. Get a second referendum on the go. Unfortunately a DUP sized lump of the conservative party would need to join the independent group for that to happen. It's a total mess. Edited March 7, 2019 by romavillan 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted March 7, 2019 Share Posted March 7, 2019 Word up. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted March 7, 2019 VT Supporter Share Posted March 7, 2019 I think Corbyn and Brexit is more complicated than many make it. He's certainly an old Eurosceptic, though coming from a different angle to the loons in the Tory party and associates. The EU increasingly was openly capitalist endeavour and as a fairly left leaning back bencher he didn't like it and it didn't really matter he didn't like it. As leader that seems to have changed. During the campaign, despite being slated for not being visible, IIRC he was one of the most active figures in Remain, making considerably more appearances than May did during her walking through the raindrops phase. He's also tabled and supported efforts to try to soften Brexit in Parliament. Labour's most recent position was one the EU actually appeared to think was more useful to discuss than banging their head against May any longer. He's also had the obvious issue that Brexit chops through traditional political dynamics, and that ultimately he wants to be elected. He and the Party has felt it has had to do their own storm jive to appear to accept the referendum and also to try to minimise it's impact. Brexit might help with being elected cynically, if the Tories get left holding the can it strengthens Labour's chances, which obviously will have been considered. So I think it's difficult to say he's an out and out Brexiteer. I think as leader he's seen the EU is more important than he previously had bothered to know, and has had to shift, together with trying not to completely push away either side of the debate, both of which he'll need to win an election. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted March 7, 2019 Moderator Share Posted March 7, 2019 Led By Donkeys appear to have gone one louder today 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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