Xann Posted September 13, 2020 Share Posted September 13, 2020 Shapps is looking at killing off the rail franchises. Because of shit services? No, because the govt guarantee their profits, and there's a passenger shortage for the recoup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mozzavfc Posted September 13, 2020 Share Posted September 13, 2020 It's about time the franchise system does. I wonder which one of Corbyn's they are going to incorporate next 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted September 13, 2020 Share Posted September 13, 2020 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted September 13, 2020 Share Posted September 13, 2020 Are they any way close to losing the vote? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted September 13, 2020 Share Posted September 13, 2020 10 minutes ago, Genie said: Are they any way close to losing the vote? Very unlikely but it's going to struggle in the Lords if it goes there unamended. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted September 13, 2020 Moderator Share Posted September 13, 2020 1 hour ago, Mozzavfc said: It's about time the franchise system does. I wonder which one of Corbyn's they are going to incorporate next Bring back British Rail, was a thing, way before Corbyn was a thing. And it was a great roots almost middle class thing too. Giving Corbyn credit for wanting to renationalise the railways is silly, he was years behind if the truth be known. It wasn't even a Labour thing, he actually jumped on a growing bandwagon of satisfied commuters who were already organised Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted September 14, 2020 Share Posted September 14, 2020 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted September 14, 2020 Share Posted September 14, 2020 9 hours ago, bickster said: Bring back British Rail, was a thing, way before Corbyn was a thing. And it was a great roots almost middle class thing too. Giving Corbyn credit for wanting to renationalise the railways is silly, he was years behind if the truth be known. It wasn't even a Labour thing, he actually jumped on a growing bandwagon of satisfied commuters who were already organised Well, to put it this way, I think it's highly unlikely that renationalising the railways will appear in Labour's *next* manifesto, however many grassroots middle-class groups support the idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amsterdam_Neil_D Posted September 14, 2020 Share Posted September 14, 2020 54 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said: Well, to put it this way, I think it's highly unlikely that renationalising the railways will appear in Labour's *next* manifesto, however many grassroots middle-class groups support the idea. Funny times though, it might not be the same enterprise at all after the COVID. If it stays half empty then government ownership is the only way to keep it going. People are never going back to 5 days a week in the office and if the pricing is as I was told last week then it needs a 100% re-think. A maximum price per mile travelled or something like that. 30p a mile or something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davkaus Posted September 14, 2020 Share Posted September 14, 2020 1 hour ago, snowychap said: A couple of points here. Even if that were true, in what way can they possibly think they're abiding by the spirit and intent? Additionally, the **** policing minister is coming out with this nonsense? At this point they're wiping their arse with the social contract. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted September 14, 2020 Share Posted September 14, 2020 (edited) Thread: I think it's about time we recognised just how seriously dangerous this government and those behind it are. They may be the end result of a descent from the Major government (sleaze and corruption) via Blair (corruption, spin, lying, government by sofa and SI, huge increase in number of criminal offences, terrorism laws, &c.) and Cameron (more dodginess, spin, lying, government by sofa and SI, hostile environment, &c.) and May (spin, incompetence, hostile environment, attacks on judiciary, 'enemies of the people'/'citizens of nowhere', government by sofa and SI, disdain for Parliament) but they make all of the previous lot look distinctly decent. Now we have government by decree and press conference (via SI, obviously), a ramping up of pretty much every fault of the previous few governments (from corruption to disdain for Parliament to attacks on the legal profession & the judiciary to attacks on the rule of law to up is down and left is right gaslighting) and they are just beginning. I envisage us being told future legal changes via articles behind a Torygraph paywall so that we can merely see the three word 'title' of the new legislation and a brief jingoistic, exhortative summary or have the changes hinted at by a wink from behind a podium. I'm only slightly joking. I'm not sure whether we have the Rubicon in front of us or in our rear view mirror - I fear the latter. All lists above re: former governments are non-exhaustive. Edit: And for all of the interjections from these former PMs over the past however long, they have to understand how they helped to make this current government possible and, even, likely. Edited September 14, 2020 by snowychap 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted September 14, 2020 Share Posted September 14, 2020 19 minutes ago, Davkaus said: A couple of points here. Even if that were true, in what way can they possibly think they're abiding by the spirit and intent? Additionally, the **** policing minister is coming out with this nonsense? At this point they're wiping their arse with the social contract. As above and per my comment in the virus thread, I can't see it as anything other than intentional now. They'll have been briefed on this and they're not sending out trusted people like Malthouse to riff on it. It's a phrase that one could imagine being in Cummings's blog (indeed it may well be somewhere). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted September 14, 2020 Share Posted September 14, 2020 42 minutes ago, Amsterdam_Neil_D said: Funny times though, it might not be the same enterprise at all after the COVID. If it stays half empty then government ownership is the only way to keep it going. People are never going back to 5 days a week in the office and if the pricing is as I was told last week then it needs a 100% re-think. A maximum price per mile travelled or something like that. 30p a mile or something. My prediction is that your final points here - price caps, greater regulation - will exactly be Labour's approach, not just to the railways but to other utilities as well. Public ownership will be a threat that won't be used, except in case of the imminent collapse of providers. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted September 14, 2020 Author Moderator Share Posted September 14, 2020 2 hours ago, HanoiVillan said: Well, to put it this way, I think it's highly unlikely that renationalising the railways will appear in Labour's *next* manifesto, however many grassroots middle-class groups support the idea. Why do you say that, Hanoi? - it was one of Starmer's pledges for his leadership - "Public services should be in public hands, not making profits for shareholders. Support common ownership of rail....", it is popular nationally with voters, it's popular with Labour members and the NEC. Why on earth wouldn't Labour conference or a Labour manifesto include that? IS it because you don't believe it will be done via nationalisation - instead via simply letting franchise contracts end? Which is probably a better way to do it for all sorts of reasons. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted September 14, 2020 Share Posted September 14, 2020 (edited) 31 minutes ago, blandy said: Why do you say that, Hanoi? - it was one of Starmer's pledges for his leadership - "Public services should be in public hands, not making profits for shareholders. Support common ownership of rail....", it is popular nationally with voters, it's popular with Labour members and the NEC. Why on earth wouldn't Labour conference or a Labour manifesto include that? IS it because you don't believe it will be done via nationalisation - instead via simply letting franchise contracts end? Which is probably a better way to do it for all sorts of reasons. If Starmer wants the Labour party to be seen as more 'moderate', the way he is likely to do that is to focus on a very small number of emblematic left-wing pledges in the manifesto, and to downplay other issues, or fight for them to be removed from the manifesto altogether. Bridget Phillipson made clear yesterday that Labour are going to attempt to appear 'fiscally responsible', which in practice will mean they need to ditch - and be seen to ditch - several big-ticket items from the manifesto. Likely that will include rail nationalisation, and instead a managerialist focus on regulating price and service quality - letting contracts expire will be seen as a last resort, and a stick with which to keep privatised providers in line. Most of the PLP consider public ownership to be axiomatically Bad, so they won't want to do it as a preference. My view of Starmer's leadership pledges is that they will be largely broken, and you can tell just how much store he puts in them by how often he, or those close to him, refer to them (never). Of course, the next election is a long way away, and the Tories might have changed how the system looks quite substantially. I suspect there will be very little difference between how the two parties act in practice on the issue. Edited September 14, 2020 by HanoiVillan 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted September 14, 2020 Moderator Share Posted September 14, 2020 13 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said: 'fiscally responsible'.... Likely that will include rail nationalisation, Correct me if I'm wrong but the East Coast Mainline actually made money when it was in state control 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted September 14, 2020 Share Posted September 14, 2020 19 minutes ago, bickster said: Correct me if I'm wrong but the East Coast Mainline actually made money when it was in state control I believe that's right. But Britain's media and political class will code nationalisation as an unnecessary expense anyway. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted September 14, 2020 Share Posted September 14, 2020 14 hours ago, Genie said: Are they any way close to losing the vote? There's a useful explainer on the process and possible outcomes here: https://ukandeu.ac.uk/will-the-lords-block-the-uk-internal-market-bill/ . . . but we don't have to wait too long to find out, as the debate starts at 4:30. The bill will likely pass Second Reading; the things to look out for are how many people abstain, and does the Neill amendment pass (I think). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post StefanAVFC Posted September 14, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted September 14, 2020 A government well and truly for the people. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted September 14, 2020 Share Posted September 14, 2020 41 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said: the Neill amendment I think Graham Cowie did a short thread on the amendment - and the sum total of it was that it doesn't really do much of note at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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