The banker loving, baby-eating Tory party thread (regenerated)

[Xann]

[peterms]

 

[markavfc40]

1 hour ago, peterms said:

 

When you hear stories like that words are hard to come by especially when you are part of the Government responsible. In fairness to Heidi Allen she does seem to have plenty of compassion but there are way too few Tories with that trait.

These aren't isolated incidents and it is sickening that so many people in one of the richest countries in the world live in desperate poverty. It doesn't have to be like this though it is the choices governments make that massively contribute to it and a choice we ultimately make when we vote.

Edited December 5, 2017 by markavfc40

[darrenm]

15 minutes ago, markavfc40 said:

When you hear stories like that words are hard to come by especially when you are part of the Government responsible. In fairness to Heidi Allen she does seem to have plenty of compassion but there are way too few Tories with that trait.

These aren't isolated incidents and it is sickening that so many people in one of the richest countries in the world live in desperate poverty. It doesn't have to be like this though it is the choices governments make that massively contribute to it and a choice we ultimately make when we vote.

But then you look at her voting record and she's consistently voted for disability and benefits cuts. She's helped cause this. I don't understand the sadness now.

[markavfc40]

6 minutes ago, darrenm said:

But then you look at her voting record and she's consistently voted for disability and benefits cuts. She's helped cause this. I don't understand the sadness now.

Must be her guilty conscience making her weep then. I don't know how many of these MPs sleep at night.

[peterms]

9 hours ago, darrenm said:

But then you look at her voting record and she's consistently voted for disability and benefits cuts. She's helped cause this. I don't understand the sadness now.

I think it's quite common for people to be able do all sorts of things which cause immense distress and suffering, having effects which they would find very upsetting and troubling if directly confronted with them, but to be able to disconnect cause and effect.  They may deny the causation, or tell themselves that their part in it is so small as to be immaterial, or to say it would have happened anyway, or that they were trying to make a bad situation very slightly better within the limits of what was possible, or various other rationalisations.

Of course most people aren't in a position of such influence as an MP, however powerless they feel themselves to be individually.

You'd have to wonder why she seems to be quite so upset, though.  Many people will not come into contact with poverty and distress of the kind described because they just don't live in those places or move in those circles, but the job of an MP, more than most, really ought to involve a little wider exposure to a range of people and living conditions than most of us.  So she shouldn't be surprised.

Or maybe it's not so much shock and distress at the conditions which she must have known exist, so much as the discomfort of having to defend the system and policies which create them, in the face of such examples.

[Amsterdam_Neil_D]

9 hours ago, darrenm said:

I don't understand the sadness now.

Just for the TV I suspect. If I knew there was hungry kids living next door I would not be able to sleep at night and would do something about it.  I truly believe  there is a segment of Tory MP's / Voters who enjoy the suffering of others, especially the poor.  

[darrenm]

3 hours ago, peterms said:

Or maybe it's not so much shock and distress at the conditions which she must have known exist, so much as the discomfort of having to defend the system and policies which create them, in the face of such examples.

I think it's more that. Heidi Allen does seem the most human out of the Tories. 15 years ago the Conservative party probably didn't seem a lot different to Labour so she picked a side. She does engage on Twitter, she replied to me with a simple 'yes' when I asked her if she was aware of how the Tories are viewed now. I think like most decent Tories (oxymoron?) they think they can't vote against cuts because they honestly believe we can't afford not to, and it's for the greater good.

[tonyh29]

13 hours ago, darrenm said:

But then you look at her voting record and she's consistently voted for disability and benefits cuts. She's helped cause this. I don't understand the sadness now.

maybe it's another attempt at jumping on the Corbyn  bandwagon and the Tory's  are now adopting revisionism ?

[peterms]

2 hours ago, darrenm said:

Heidi Allen does seem the most human out of the Tories

You may be right.

Quote

damn with faint praise

If someone damns something with faint praise, they say something about it which sounds quite nice but is not enthusiastic, and shows that they do not have a high opinion of it.

...the belief that the U.S. had signalled a policy shift by damning with faint praise the mediation efforts.

damn with faint praise in British

to praise so unenthusiastically that the effect is condemnation

 

[Xann]

 

[a m ole]

24 minutes ago, Xann said:

 

Absolutely disgusting, how many people are having to live like this on a day to day basis? If parents left a disabled child to crawl around the house, climb onto the toilet and fall down the stairs struggling to breathe with only milk for sustenance, they’d be done for neglect.

Edited December 7, 2017 by a m ole

[peterms]

Perhaps Heidi Allan could be invited to come and explain what concrete actions she will now take to address this kind of issue.

If she's too busy, she could send a small jar of tears instead.

[Xann]

 

[snowychap]

Ha ha ha. The Sun's politics bloke is reporting that there has been some sort of attempt to get a 'dream ticket' with the Master Negotiator (aka David Davis) and one of the new, younger intake to replace May as PM/Tory leader (as in Davis takes over for a couple of years and then passes the baton/buck to the other person).

It appears not to have gone very well.

[VILLAMARV]

Quote

Gavin Williamson said: "Quite simply, my view is a dead terrorist can't cause any harm to Britain."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-42260814

Quite simply Mr Williamson your grasp of the English language is laughable. I get it, what you are saying then is that your view is that a person who engages in violence and/or intimidation of violence in the pursuit of political aims can't cause any harm to Britain if we kill them. And as Defense Secretary your job is to use violence or the intimidation of violence in the pursuit of political aims. Brilliant.

 

[markavfc40]

8 hours ago, Xann said:

 

I can't put in to words how angry watching this makes me.

I challenge anyone, especially Tory supporters or defenders of which there are a few on here, to watch this and then defend the Tories disability benefit cuts, the means by which people with disabilities are being assessed and the cuts to services. 

I know I am stating the obvious here but Tories are scum.

Edited December 7, 2017 by markavfc40

[lapal_fan]

Just watched the video @Xann posted.  Heart-wrenching to watch.    

 

[snowychap]

Williamson:

Quote

MPs, families and legal experts have raised serious concerns about comments made by the defence secretary, Gavin Williamson, suggesting that British troops should break the law by carrying out targeted extrajudicial killings of British jihadists.

The Labour MP and former paratrooper Dan Jarvis said Williamson’s comments that Britons who had fought for Islamic State abroad should be hunted down and killed were “morally, legally and practically wrong” and contravened long-held British policy.

“His statement implies a desire for extrajudicial killing to form part of the UK’s security policy,” Jarvis told the Guardian. “That is so radical a departure from all that we should value, and the way we should conduct ourselves, it is hard even to countenance.

“Such a policy would not only break the Geneva conventions and UK law, but would undermine both our society and the way we defend it.”

...

Jarvis said Williamson’s comments to the Daily Mail could fundamentally undermine instructions to troops already under intense pressure. “We could no longer turn to our troops and require of them, in often the most difficult of circumstances, to obey the law of armed conflict,” he said.

“We could no longer turn to other nations and ask them to end the extrajudicial killing of their people; and we could no longer turn to the British public and ask them to trust in the rule of law, when we, the lawmakers, are not prepared to do so ourselves.

“The rule of law is key both to the society we are defending and how we defend it. If our response to terrorism is to destroy human rights and the rule of law, the terrorists have won.”

Ken Macdonald, the former director of public prosecutions, told the BBC’s World at One: “It simply will not be lawful in all circumstances to kill jihadis, as the secretary of state seems to be suggesting.”

...more on link

 

[markavfc40]

Williamson has clearly been influenced by Trump and his fellow Tory David Davis in thinking you can say what the hell you like. 

This has got to be one of the worst UK Governments ever hasn't it? I know there are those that go back further than me (I am 43) so maybe those that do can let me know if there has been a worse one. I can't think of one positive over the last 7 years, could write a 10 page essay on what they have done wrong, and can see nothing but a bleak future for the vast majority going forward, especially those already with the least.