The banker loving, baby-eating Tory party thread (regenerated)

[Xann]

 

[sidcow]

1 hour ago, cheltenham_villa said:

If i was Rishi i would keep the marbles but send back all of those broken statues we also stole from Greece. 

Yeah. If someone showed him an old sweet jar full of Pearlies, Steelies, Cats Eyes and Gobbies he'd probably be happy as Larry while the Greeks carted away some old junk. 

[Rds1983]

Give them back. Even if it's a ridiculously long loan (100/200 years or whatever) from the museum (if it's easier to avoid having to change the law stopping them being given back).

I do wonder though if other countries/museum's get these same issues or is it just Britain?

[mjmooney]

15 minutes ago, Rds1983 said:

I do wonder though if other countries/museum's get these same issues or is it just Britain?

Of course they do. The museums and art galleries of Europe and America are stuffed with stuff plundered from other countries. 

And they'll be watching this dispute with some trepidation, as if we concede ownership, it could be seen as setting a precedent for future claims. 

[Rds1983]

1 minute ago, mjmooney said:

Of course they do. The museums and art galleries of Europe and America are stuffed with stuff plundered from other countries. 

And they'll be watching this dispute with some trepidation, as if we concede ownership, it could be seen as setting a precedent for future claims. 

I assumed they must do but you don't seem to hear about it. 

[NurembergVillan]

14 hours ago, Rds1983 said:

I assumed they must do but you don't seem to hear about it. 

Not just plundered from other countries either! In Canada, there are vast collections of art and historical artefacts nicked from the First Nations tribes over the years too.

[desensitized43]

Return them and make a big deal about how it's the right thing to do to own up to the mistakes of Empire. That we've protected and maintained them while the Greeks were occupied by the Ottomans and then the Nazi's but it's time for them to go home.

The greek people have been our friends for a lot of years, we've shed blood together. It'll mean a lot to them and we'll barely notice they've gone. The British museum has made enough money over the years and surely has enough other stuff to put on display.

If they're so bothered by it then return them and do some kind of agreement to have some of them back from the Greeks on a lease. 

[Genie]

Agree to send them back, but then use Hermes to courier them…

[ml1dch]

1 minute ago, Genie said:

Agree to send them back, but then use Hermes to courier them…

Zeus would definitely approve. 

[Genie]

[chrisp65]

17 minutes ago, desensitized43 said:

Return them and make a big deal about how it's the right thing to do to own up to the mistakes of Empire. That we've protected and maintained them while the Greeks were occupied by the Ottomans and then the Nazi's but it's time for them to go home.

The greek people have been our friends for a lot of years, we've shed blood together. It'll mean a lot to them and we'll barely notice they've gone. The British museum has made enough money over the years and surely has enough other stuff to put on display.

If they're so bothered by it then return them and do some kind of agreement to have some of them back from the Greeks on a lease. 

 

I suspect the bolded bit is the problem.

If they start a precedent of returning cultural artefacts to where they belong, we’ll have quite a lot of available space in the museum.

 

[Genie]

Just now, chrisp65 said:

 

I suspect the bolded bit is the problem.

If they start a precedent of returning cultural artefacts to where they belong, we’ll have quite a lot of available space in the museum.

 

I guess it’s not unique to us. Part of the attraction of these museums is to see the amazing artefacts from around the world. If everything got returned to the place of origin then they’d be far less interesting. 

[blandy]

35 minutes ago, desensitized43 said:

Return them and make a big deal about how it's the right thing to do to own up to the mistakes of Empire. That we've protected and maintained them while the Greeks were occupied by the Ottomans and then the Nazi's but it's time for them to go home.

The greek people have been our friends for a lot of years, we've shed blood together. It'll mean a lot to them and we'll barely notice they've gone. The British museum has made enough money over the years and surely has enough other stuff to put on display.

If they're so bothered by it then return them and do some kind of agreement to have some of them back from the Greeks on a lease. 

This. I heard something a while back that was along those lines, but it seemed that agreeing the wording between the two countries was really difficult. Something like Greece’s starting point was “Uk stole them and we’ve got them back” and the UK’s was “we saved them from destruction and are happy to loan them out” and various folks on each side had different views within themselves and it went nowhere… is it a generous loan or is it a return of stolen goods…

[Rustibrooks]

15 hours ago, Rds1983 said:

Give them back. Even if it's a ridiculously long loan (100/200 years or whatever) from the museum (if it's easier to avoid having to change the law stopping them being given back).

I do wonder though if other countries/museum's get these same issues or is it just Britain?

I remember seeing some articles that mentioned Germany returning artefacts from Nigeria (Benin empire) and Namibia last year I believe. And I think they will do the same with other countries. France were supposed to as well (Macron made a promise) and I don’t think they have returned that many of them since they said they would. 
 

I would imagine the process being a long one but I think slowly a lot of the European colonial powers are returning some things back to their respective countries.

[Seat68]

8 minutes ago, Rustibrooks said:

I remember seeing some articles that mentioned Germany returning artefacts from Nigeria (Benin empire) and Namibia last year I believe. And I think they will do the same with other countries. France were supposed to as well (Macron made a promise) and I don’t think they have returned that many of them since they said they would. 
 

I would imagine the process being a long one but I think slowly a lot of the European colonial powers are returning some things back to their respective countries.

As much as I am aware the Benin artefacts are still in this country.

[Rustibrooks]

21 minutes ago, Seat68 said:

As much as I am aware the Benin artefacts are still in this country.

You are right I think the majority are in the British Museum still, I think Germany had a few of them as well I believe 

[mjmooney]

2 hours ago, Genie said:

I guess it’s not unique to us. Part of the attraction of these museums is to see the amazing artefacts from around the world. If everything got returned to the place of origin then they’d be far less interesting. 

In the case of ancient artifacts, there is the argument that they represent an era of human history far more than a present-day political entity. Modern Greece has very little in common with ancient Greece - its surviving treasures perhaps belong to the world, rather than any one modern nation state. I would have no problem with (say) the Sutton Hoo Anglo-Saxon helmet being on display in a museum in Prague, Chicago or even Beijing. Which is why - subject to a sensible approach to security and correct handling - I'm broadly in favour of such things moving around the world. 

But, hey, I'm an internationalist by instinct. Nationalist flag-waving is not my thing. 

[meregreen]

If there was more trust in the world, then it shouldn’t be beyond the wit of man to send many of the great treasures on world tours, much as Tutankhamen was shown in London. As for the Greek marbles, they really do belong in Greece methinks. Hell, the British museum only acquired them because Lord Elgin had an expensive divorce to pay for, so sold them to the museum. How would we feel if the Romans had carted off Stonehenge, to “protect” it from invading Saxons. 

[bickster]

20 minutes ago, meregreen said:

How would we feel if the Romans had carted off Stonehenge, to “protect” it from invading Saxons.

We've clearly had a small boat problem of bloody economic migrants coming here for a lot longer than this government is prepared to admit

[meregreen]

39 minutes ago, bickster said:

We've clearly had a small boat problem of bloody economic migrants coming here for a lot longer than this government is prepared to admit

It’s the ones with bloody dragons on the front we should be worried about.