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Refugee crisis


StefanAVFC

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Great post Omar. 

 

What I find funny is how the media are trying to manipulate the national conscience by telling us we are not as nice as the Germans.

It seems that as a nation we can accept our failure to be as good as the Germans at most things but only as long as we can console ourselves that we are much nicer than they are.

But the real issue is that Germany's decision to unilaterally flout EU law does not mean that we should automatically follow, because our national situation is different.

And of course, once the Germans have handed out full citizen rights to all and sundry, the refugees and economic migrants alike, will be able to move anywhere in the EU they choose, and demand housing, education, free medical care and benefits.

But it has to be remembered that whatever resources are diverted to these new arrivals, will be taken from the poor and homeless who are already here.

Robbing Peter to pay Paul might look like a solution but in reality it is just dividing the poor into the deserving and the undeserving.

 

 

Can you show me an example of this in the media? I haven't seen that at all (I'm not saying it hasn't happened, I'm saying I haven't seen it). 

Comments on the news about how good the Germans are; Pictures in the papers of signs in English, saying 'Welcome To Frankfurt'; pictures of German football fans displaying signs saying 'Refugees Are Welcome' (in English). Saturday's Times with stories of Germans handing out food and offering accommodation in Berlin. Today's front page of Metro showing two children saying 'Thank You' to Germany (in English), with the headline, Germany Leads The Way...With a Welcome. 

No mention of what France are doing or many of the rest of the 28 EU states.

Manipulation; plain and simple.

 

With respect, some of this seems like more evidence of a guilty conscience on your part than 'media manipulation'. I mean, on a deep level, everything ever that is in the media is manipulating people's thoughts. But the tone of your post makes it sound like a conscious conspiracy. I've highlighted the things which you've complained about which are in the news because they're news. It's pointless complaining about newspapers covering the news. France and most of the other EU states aren't currently doing anything newsworthy re. migrants, so they're not in the news. Germany is doing something newsworthy, hence it's in the news. Germany would equally be in the news if they were mistreating or expelling migrants. 

I am definitely not complaining about the media because as you point out 'everything in the media is manipulating people's thoughts'.

I just pointed out that you can identify what they think of the public by their choice of the ways and means they effect that manipulation.

I suspect that your real objection is that because you think this manipulation serves a point of view you agree with, that it is wrong to point it out.

 

 

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Welcome to the EU wet dream: the ultimate people ponzi scheme.

European governments don't just want mass immigration - they need it, or more to the point the banksters need it.

Huge immigration leads to the illusion of GDP growth as more debt slaves (sorry, consumers) are added to the pile so that more money can be borrowed into existence. Of course GDP per capita is what's important to weigh the individual's living standards, but this is hardly ever reported.

It makes me laugh that some posters here have referred to the UK as being in a 'recovery' - we are not! It's all a big lie. Osbourne has borrowed more money than all the other chancellors in UK history - let me repeat that - more than all the other chancellors put together... and were still adding ninety billion a year, even with the fire sales of anything not nailed down (including the NHS)

If we  were in recovery interest rates would not be at near zero with deflation around the corner. The economy is foooked and is about to come off the rails properly (it was postponed in 2008 with all the QE). The stock market will slowly burn and houses will crash properly, especially in the SE.

So what is 'full' anyway? There is certainly plenty of land in the UK that can be built on, it just happens to be owned by the land grabbing families who took it all in 1066. You could free up 2% of the green belt (that really isn't green belt) and build two million homes and all the infrastructure you need.

BUT.... that isn't my definition of full. In WW2 we had a population of some 40 million inhabitants, yet when we were blockaded by U-boats we had to go on strict rations (even after the war). Now we're rapidly heading for double that number, how are we supposed to feed ourselves if push came to shove? The UK is taking more and more food from 'developing' nations - having to compete with the likes of China in the process. What happens when these countries say 'no more'?

Yes these people need help, just not the sort that we and our fellow interfering ally across the pond keep dishing out.

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Africans totally overlooked again. Migrants from Africa have been dying by the thousands trying to make it to Europe with nothing being done about it, but Syrians (who must surely qualify as "white enough") get an open embrace.

Royal Navy ships patrolling the Libyan Coast were issued with Dulux colour charts and the sailors told to operate a 'catch and return' policy with anyone darker than Egytian Cotton. Consequently our ships have only rescued 6700 people, to date.

Seriously, if you're going to play the racism card at least do some level of fricking research first, EU Navies are pulling people out of the Southern Med' by the 100's every day. 

I'm not "playing a card", I'm just making an observation that it appears as though a much greater effort is being made to help and assimilate the Syrians. It's just that now that it's Syrians, it seems like there's some massive impetus for Europe to get a handle on the "refugee crisis", whereas it's been a crisis for years now.

Edited by maqroll
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Great post Omar. 

 

What I find funny is how the media are trying to manipulate the national conscience by telling us we are not as nice as the Germans.

It seems that as a nation we can accept our failure to be as good as the Germans at most things but only as long as we can console ourselves that we are much nicer than they are.

But the real issue is that Germany's decision to unilaterally flout EU law does not mean that we should automatically follow, because our national situation is different.

And of course, once the Germans have handed out full citizen rights to all and sundry, the refugees and economic migrants alike, will be able to move anywhere in the EU they choose, and demand housing, education, free medical care and benefits.

But it has to be remembered that whatever resources are diverted to these new arrivals, will be taken from the poor and homeless who are already here.

Robbing Peter to pay Paul might look like a solution but in reality it is just dividing the poor into the deserving and the undeserving.

 

 

Can you show me an example of this in the media? I haven't seen that at all (I'm not saying it hasn't happened, I'm saying I haven't seen it). 

Comments on the news about how good the Germans are; Pictures in the papers of signs in English, saying 'Welcome To Frankfurt'; pictures of German football fans displaying signs saying 'Refugees Are Welcome' (in English). Saturday's Times with stories of Germans handing out food and offering accommodation in Berlin. Today's front page of Metro showing two children saying 'Thank You' to Germany (in English), with the headline, Germany Leads The Way...With a Welcome. 

No mention of what France are doing or many of the rest of the 28 EU states.

Manipulation; plain and simple.

 

With respect, some of this seems like more evidence of a guilty conscience on your part than 'media manipulation'. I mean, on a deep level, everything ever that is in the media is manipulating people's thoughts. But the tone of your post makes it sound like a conscious conspiracy. I've highlighted the things which you've complained about which are in the news because they're news. It's pointless complaining about newspapers covering the news. France and most of the other EU states aren't currently doing anything newsworthy re. migrants, so they're not in the news. Germany is doing something newsworthy, hence it's in the news. Germany would equally be in the news if they were mistreating or expelling migrants. 

I am definitely not complaining about the media because as you point out 'everything in the media is manipulating people's thoughts'.

I just pointed out that you can identify what they think of the public by their choice of the ways and means they effect that manipulation.

I suspect that your real objection is that because you think this manipulation serves a point of view you agree with, that it is wrong to point it out.

 

 

So, your point was basically 'I have identified that some in the media have an opinion on a topical issue, and they demonstrate that opinion both through the articles and commentaries they write, as well as the headlines and graphics they choose?'

Mind-blowing. You learn something new every day. 

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As a dual-national US-UK, I think all the Syrian refugees should be offered resettlement in the USA. When Bush and Bliar destroyed Saddam's regime without thinking through the long-term consequences, we "bought" Iraq -- and what's driving people out of Syria now is mostly fear of ISIS, a monster created, in large part, by American foreign policy in Iraq.

I also think Russia should be stepping forward, 'cause Putin has played no small part in narrowing the options available to Syrians, but if I were Syrian, there's no **** way I would go to racist Russia (and it's worse than the US, believe me!) if offered a chance to settle in the US.

The USA has some interesting Syrian communities, too, and they are healthy and vibrant. I buy spinach pies and hummus all the time from a Syrian grocer.

they were right to destroy Saddam (imo) ...  but it should have been done first time around 

had Blair not done it on the basis of a lie he wouldn't be so reviled but America wanted it's revenge for 11/9 so badly they attacked the wrong country and Blair (and Bush) should have to pay the consequences for that

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I also think Russia should be stepping forward...

I thought I'd read that they were - by offering (a thousand) boots on the ground to help Assad.

Let's see how THAT goes. Putin isn't stupid enough to create another Russian-Afghan Circus (the Syrian edition) any time soon.

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As a dual-national US-UK, I think all the Syrian refugees should be offered resettlement in the USA. When Bush and Bliar destroyed Saddam's regime without thinking through the long-term consequences, we "bought" Iraq -- and what's driving people out of Syria now is mostly fear of ISIS, a monster created, in large part, by American foreign policy in Iraq.

I also think Russia should be stepping forward, 'cause Putin has played no small part in narrowing the options available to Syrians, but if I were Syrian, there's no **** way I would go to racist Russia (and it's worse than the US, believe me!) if offered a chance to settle in the US.

The USA has some interesting Syrian communities, too, and they are healthy and vibrant. I buy spinach pies and hummus all the time from a Syrian grocer.

they were right to destroy Saddam (imo) ...  but it should have been done first time around 

had Blair not done it on the basis of a lie he wouldn't be so reviled but America wanted it's revenge for 11/9 so badly they attacked the wrong country and Blair (and Bush) should have to pay the consequences for that

A good way of paying -- and of doing the right thing -- would be to take the refugees off overcrowded Europe's hands. 

And don't let Australia off the hook, either. They better be opening their homes and hearts. John Howard deceived himself to cozy up to the US, but decisions have consequences.

Independent MP Andrew Wilkie says John Howard should be "deeply ashamed" for sending Australian troops to Iraq in 2003, adding that the military action allowed for the rise of groups like Islamic State.

Edited by Plastic Man
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As a dual-national US-UK, I think all the Syrian refugees should be offered resettlement in the USA. When Bush and Bliar destroyed Saddam's regime without thinking through the long-term consequences, we "bought" Iraq -- and what's driving people out of Syria now is mostly fear of ISIS, a monster created, in large part, by American foreign policy in Iraq.

I also think Russia should be stepping forward, 'cause Putin has played no small part in narrowing the options available to Syrians, but if I were Syrian, there's no **** way I would go to racist Russia (and it's worse than the US, believe me!) if offered a chance to settle in the US.

The USA has some interesting Syrian communities, too, and they are healthy and vibrant. I buy spinach pies and hummus all the time from a Syrian grocer.

they were right to destroy Saddam (imo) ...  but it should have been done first time around 

had Blair not done it on the basis of a lie he wouldn't be so reviled but America wanted it's revenge for 11/9 so badly they attacked the wrong country and Blair (and Bush) should have to pay the consequences for that

 

Blair needs a trial and a date with the hangman for what he did. 

Sorry, I don't agree with death penalty. What you're describing is a kangaroo court. There's been enough death. And I don't agree with the Blair is war criminal brigade because I think it let's the British people off the hook. They knew what the **** they were doing. And the same goes for us in the USA. I am so sick of ordinary British and American people pretending they were gullibly deceived by their leaders.

I actually protested in the streets in 2003 right before the bombs started in Iraq, in NYC. It wasn't hard to get the real facts.  But there weren't many people helping out with the protests. I was mostly with grannies from Connecticut and old hippies. The young weren't there. I still feel really really angry about how relatively alone we were.

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As a dual-national US-UK, I think all the Syrian refugees should be offered resettlement in the USA. When Bush and Bliar destroyed Saddam's regime without thinking through the long-term consequences, we "bought" Iraq -- and what's driving people out of Syria now is mostly fear of ISIS, a monster created, in large part, by American foreign policy in Iraq.

I also think Russia should be stepping forward, 'cause Putin has played no small part in narrowing the options available to Syrians, but if I were Syrian, there's no **** way I would go to racist Russia (and it's worse than the US, believe me!) if offered a chance to settle in the US.

The USA has some interesting Syrian communities, too, and they are healthy and vibrant. I buy spinach pies and hummus all the time from a Syrian grocer.

they were right to destroy Saddam (imo) ...  but it should have been done first time around 

had Blair not done it on the basis of a lie he wouldn't be so reviled but America wanted it's revenge for 11/9 so badly they attacked the wrong country and Blair (and Bush) should have to pay the consequences for that

 

Blair needs a trial and a date with the hangman for what he did. 

Sorry, I don't agree with death penalty. What you're describing is a kangaroo court. There's been enough death. And I don't agree with the Blair is war criminal brigade because I think it let's the British people off the hook. They knew what the **** they were doing. And the same goes for us in the USA. I am so sick of ordinary British and American people pretending they were gullibly deceived by their leaders.

I actually protested in the streets in 2003 right before the bombs started in Iraq, in NYC. It wasn't hard to get the real facts.  But there weren't many people helping out with the protests. I was mostly with grannies from Connecticut and old hippies. The young weren't there. I still feel really really angry about how relatively alone we were.

Well done you for going against the war when most of America was baying to attack Eye-rack. What do you want, a biscuit? 

You might have been relatively alone protesting in the land of the free, in UK we had the biggest street protest in British history before the war even started. The public here knew it was wrong before, during and after the invasion.  Didn't change anything.

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As a dual-national US-UK, I think all the Syrian refugees should be offered resettlement in the USA. When Bush and Bliar destroyed Saddam's regime without thinking through the long-term consequences, we "bought" Iraq -- and what's driving people out of Syria now is mostly fear of ISIS, a monster created, in large part, by American foreign policy in Iraq.

I also think Russia should be stepping forward, 'cause Putin has played no small part in narrowing the options available to Syrians, but if I were Syrian, there's no **** way I would go to racist Russia (and it's worse than the US, believe me!) if offered a chance to settle in the US.

The USA has some interesting Syrian communities, too, and they are healthy and vibrant. I buy spinach pies and hummus all the time from a Syrian grocer.

they were right to destroy Saddam (imo) ...  but it should have been done first time around 

had Blair not done it on the basis of a lie he wouldn't be so reviled but America wanted it's revenge for 11/9 so badly they attacked the wrong country and Blair (and Bush) should have to pay the consequences for that

I'm a bit of a history geek on the sly and can't think of a single worse UK FP decision in modern history than the invasion of Iraq in 2003 and the removal of Saddam. Literally everything that has gone wrong in the Middle East since then flows more or less directly from that decision. 

Blair needs a trial and a date with the hangman for what he did. 

As a dual-national US-UK, I think all the Syrian refugees should be offered resettlement in the USA. When Bush and Bliar destroyed Saddam's regime without thinking through the long-term consequences, we "bought" Iraq -- and what's driving people out of Syria now is mostly fear of ISIS, a monster created, in large part, by American foreign policy in Iraq.

I also think Russia should be stepping forward, 'cause Putin has played no small part in narrowing the options available to Syrians, but if I were Syrian, there's no **** way I would go to racist Russia (and it's worse than the US, believe me!) if offered a chance to settle in the US.

The USA has some interesting Syrian communities, too, and they are healthy and vibrant. I buy spinach pies and hummus all the time from a Syrian grocer.

they were right to destroy Saddam (imo) ...  but it should have been done first time around 

had Blair not done it on the basis of a lie he wouldn't be so reviled but America wanted it's revenge for 11/9 so badly they attacked the wrong country and Blair (and Bush) should have to pay the consequences for that

I'm a bit of a history geek on the sly and can't think of a single worse UK FP decision in modern history than the invasion of Iraq in 2003 and the removal of Saddam. Literally everything that has gone wrong in the Middle East since then flows more or less directly from that decision. 

Blair needs a trial and a date with the hangman for what he did

As long as he's drawn and quartered after I'd have no problem with this. 

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As a dual-national US-UK, I think all the Syrian refugees should be offered resettlement in the USA. When Bush and Bliar destroyed Saddam's regime without thinking through the long-term consequences, we "bought" Iraq -- and what's driving people out of Syria now is mostly fear of ISIS, a monster created, in large part, by American foreign policy in Iraq.

I also think Russia should be stepping forward, 'cause Putin has played no small part in narrowing the options available to Syrians, but if I were Syrian, there's no **** way I would go to racist Russia (and it's worse than the US, believe me!) if offered a chance to settle in the US.

The USA has some interesting Syrian communities, too, and they are healthy and vibrant. I buy spinach pies and hummus all the time from a Syrian grocer.

they were right to destroy Saddam (imo) ...  but it should have been done first time around 

had Blair not done it on the basis of a lie he wouldn't be so reviled but America wanted it's revenge for 11/9 so badly they attacked the wrong country and Blair (and Bush) should have to pay the consequences for that

 

Blair needs a trial and a date with the hangman for what he did. 

Sorry, I don't agree with death penalty. What you're describing is a kangaroo court. There's been enough death. And I don't agree with the Blair is war criminal brigade because I think it let's the British people off the hook. They knew what the **** they were doing. And the same goes for us in the USA. I am so sick of ordinary British and American people pretending they were gullibly deceived by their leaders.

I actually protested in the streets in 2003 right before the bombs started in Iraq, in NYC. It wasn't hard to get the real facts.  But there weren't many people helping out with the protests. I was mostly with grannies from Connecticut and old hippies. The young weren't there. I still feel really really angry about how relatively alone we were.

What do you want, a biscuit? 

My big American stomach says yes. My cardiologist says no. 

I remember the big protests in the UK, too. Sure. I wonder where they all went in 2005, when the Blair was returned to power? Where did they all go? Back to their parents' basements and their Jam records?

 

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As a dual-national US-UK, I think all the Syrian refugees should be offered resettlement in the USA. When Bush and Bliar destroyed Saddam's regime without thinking through the long-term consequences, we "bought" Iraq -- and what's driving people out of Syria now is mostly fear of ISIS, a monster created, in large part, by American foreign policy in Iraq.

I also think Russia should be stepping forward, 'cause Putin has played no small part in narrowing the options available to Syrians, but if I were Syrian, there's no **** way I would go to racist Russia (and it's worse than the US, believe me!) if offered a chance to settle in the US.

The USA has some interesting Syrian communities, too, and they are healthy and vibrant. I buy spinach pies and hummus all the time from a Syrian grocer.

they were right to destroy Saddam (imo) ...  but it should have been done first time around 

had Blair not done it on the basis of a lie he wouldn't be so reviled but America wanted it's revenge for 11/9 so badly they attacked the wrong country and Blair (and Bush) should have to pay the consequences for that

Saddam was a CIA puppet who got too big for his boots.

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I remember the big protests in the UK, too. Sure. I wonder where they all went in 2005, when the Blair was returned to power? Where did they all go? Back to their parents' basements and their Jam records?

A war criminal,a drunk and a man with a touch of the night about him walked into an election...

There was no alternative.

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As a dual-national US-UK, I think all the Syrian refugees should be offered resettlement in the USA. When Bush and Bliar destroyed Saddam's regime without thinking through the long-term consequences, we "bought" Iraq -- and what's driving people out of Syria now is mostly fear of ISIS, a monster created, in large part, by American foreign policy in Iraq.

I also think Russia should be stepping forward, 'cause Putin has played no small part in narrowing the options available to Syrians, but if I were Syrian, there's no **** way I would go to racist Russia (and it's worse than the US, believe me!) if offered a chance to settle in the US.

The USA has some interesting Syrian communities, too, and they are healthy and vibrant. I buy spinach pies and hummus all the time from a Syrian grocer.

they were right to destroy Saddam (imo) ...  but it should have been done first time around 

had Blair not done it on the basis of a lie he wouldn't be so reviled but America wanted it's revenge for 11/9 so badly they attacked the wrong country and Blair (and Bush) should have to pay the consequences for that

Saddam was a CIA puppet who got too big for his boots.

Yeah, but that's going WAY back ... to the early 1960s, right? Control was gone by the late 80s. And in that earlier era, MI6's hands in the mideast were pretty filthy, too -- Operation Boot, anyone?

Edited by Plastic Man
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I remember the big protests in the UK, too. Sure. I wonder where they all went in 2005, when the Blair was returned to power? Where did they all go? Back to their parents' basements and their Jam records?

A war criminal,a drunk and a man with a touch of the night about him walked into an election...

There was no alternative.

I would take the drunk. You can recover from alcoholism. You can't from a failure of imagination -- and that's Blair. If only Howard was as incredibly cool as that description haha!

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